Pack-A-Mule

[Osvir]

The Pack and the Mule

 

This section covers Inventory, Looting and Campsite variations.

 

* "Your Inventory is Full"

You practically have no inventory space at all, and can only carry a certain amount of things. Scenario; Rolf had been wandering around this dungeon floor for hours now ("It's only the first level Narrator!" - Rolf), carrying everything he could on his back. He was stuffed! Scrolls had been tucked in between his belt and in his big leather boots he had carefully stashed an excessive amount of throwing knives. Why not? With every step he took he panted, as a big brown Santa Clause backpack weighed him down. Spears, Halberds and staff's were pointing out.

 

"Hey Rolf!" echoed in the distance, his companions were back! Helga, Jacob and Tim. Rolf almost cried, he was glad to see them. Well just a little bit, because they were carrying more stuff for him to carry.

 

What I try to explain in this scenario is that, I feel that it isn't authentic that your character would be able to carry so much as they do at some times. I kind of want a more limited inventory that let's me keep focusing on looting a little bit less without loosing benefits of it. More on this in "* Loot'n n' Plunder'in". I want a tactical approach to the Inventory management and control, "Do I keep this armor, or pick up the one I just found... one having each an advantage as well as a disadvantage.. hmm". To mirror yourself, how much are you able to carry, and fight at the same time mind you.

 

Introducing Pack Mule, an old weary Mule, grey in color and slightly beardy and skinny. Rolf. Jokes aside, the Pack Mule would be Quest related, in-game story/side-story much like how the car in FallOut 2 is purely optional. However it would be very beneficial to have it with you, of course. There is also the question of being able to hire/buy a slave to carry some of the excessive gear you are holding on to.

 

No matter how harsh it may sound with the slave, I only wish to portray an authentic situation in an authentic display of another world set in another Era.

 

I can also think of here where having a Mage becomes even more useful, as there could be a skill (even from the start) which allows him to send a couple of items into another dimension and allow you to carry even more inventory. However, random as it is, on early levels some items would perhaps be lost for eternity, other items could re-appear at any point. Later levels the randomness would be less and more in control, as the Mage could perhaps even use items from this dimension (Teleporting in an Acid Potion that you place on the enemy, so that it falls and crashes in pieces on top of them? F- yes. A sudden spear, appearing from nowhere, backstabbing the enemy? F- yes. Your Mage is no longer an encumbrance to your party).

 

With this "vision" in mind, the Mage would in turn be the one who could carry the most inventory.

 

Tactical Management: As a warrior in the party. So now you are level 2, traveling through the world, you can barely carry much, a couple of potions, two main weapons. A set piece of armor, helmet and so on. You have a couple of spears on your back, either for throwing or for taking to town to sell. A wolf pelt hangs around your right shoulder, tightly knit around your chest. There was an old man who was looking for wolf pelt's for this coming winter.

 

With a limited inventory you wouldn't be hoarding so you can sell and then get more gear. Again I am talking about authenticity "How much can I carry?" versus "How much can I carry in the game?". I want a game which doesn't allow for that to happen, but as a challenge and as an improvement. You are not meant to leave the dungeon midway through it, for whatever reason, and return a couple of days later. Although it all depends on the dungeon, which is its own couple of novels by itself.

 

* "Loot'n n' Plunder'in"

I would love to see an interface of looting, a "zooming glass" way of doing it. L.A. Noire styled inspection, but simpler (instead of the full 3D search, perhaps simply a JPEG file would suffice). In this looting interface you could search pockets, remove armor, inspect etc. Easy, user-friendly, fast. Why? Really it doesn't matter much about the interface, I think I am more after the different options you have to inspect the situation. Practically a "Search" function when looting.

 

With your limited inventory space you would not need to loot everything, and I feel that it should suffice to run through a dungeon and by simply hovering your mouse pointer over those who you slay you would get a message in the combat log stating if they carry things which could benefit your character or not. With this in mind "Search" would be more important to use as well.

 

How does it become important? Well if you don't put a couple of points in it, you won't get all gear you are looking for, likewise if you are putting points in it you will miss out on putting points on something else that could benefit the damage, health or more statistical bits of your character's strength's.

 

Tactical Search: Now you have this to think about as well as your inventory space. The higher Search you get, the easier you will spot and now "Hm, that is a nice looking sword, it is not jagged at all." whilst a low level Search would give you a "Nothing useful here" message. Of course you could still search the body and indeed find out that the sword this bandit was carrying was not worn out at all, whilst yours seriously needed the attention of a blacksmith.

 

With a limited inventory, and a broader Search: The World will be your Inventory and your character the Search. <- That's kind of spiritually cryptic. The Character is what is most important, in my opinion, above all else in the game.

 

 

Campsite

 

A living campsite, I am thinking about Suikoden highly when I think of adjusting a campsite. I really liked the campsite in Dragon Age: Origins as well, it was really nice. All I disliked about it was the loading screen and it was always the same area. What if I could set up a Tent anywhere? What if I could macro-manage it to place a guard, whilst the others rest? The Sims mechanic* where you can Fast Forward really fast (but only during Rest sequences) and midway pause in it and change guards so that they both get some rest.

 

Fatigue Thread:

<M.I.A can't find it, looked around for a little bit but got stuck in another thread instead>

 

One way to solve this is to have a mobile Camp (Pack Mule) that you can take with you, it is your stash basically and it can be stolen, attacked, lost, eaten. Where you can leave it outside caves, or if the Dungeon is large enough (entrance~) the Mule can through it. A slave, previously mention further up, could be hired/bought to carry your inventory between the Pack Mule/Camp and back to the character.

 

ABC Magic:

http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/60996-abc-magic/

 

Exploring the World:

http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/60997-exploration-the-world-and-how-it-reacts-to-your-meddling-with-it/

Edited October 3, 2012 by Osvir

[Ieo]

I do like the idea of a mobile campsite while adventuring--it does make sense, and the utility can be fairly broad with some creativity. I didn't particularly like DA:O's for various reasons, but that's probably more arising from disliking several other mechanics in it, so whatever...

 

Visually, I'm combining the pack mule and a campsite. On a BG-like isometric view, a "blue circle" neutral mule would be following the party but staying out of combat (running off screen or something); maybe there's a "campfire" button on the UI that allows you to drop a camp somewhere on that map and the mule automatically stays there. Utility would include not just extra inventory but cover other potential mechanics (Rest and whatever).

 

Specifically about loot interface... Something easy but reasonable--minimal drag-n-drop, stuff like that in terms of usability.

[Osvir]

Specifically about loot interface... Something easy but reasonable--minimal drag-n-drop, stuff like that in terms of usability.

 

Minimal drag-n-drop, more click-n-receive. Like always, a "Loot All" Hotkey/Quick-Button is always nice, but as I am getting a feeling that this game (P:E) will be more of a depth-wise, tactical experience, I get a feeling that something fitting to that would be the more "intelligent" and "scholar-ish" approach will be taken towards it.

 

In Diablo, as an example, all the loot falls out of the corpse and you click the items and "Get".

 

In Baldur's Gate you click the corpse and you are taken to another (although small) looting interface wherein you click to "Get".

 

The system in both are the same, Baldur's Gate just has one extra short session of it. Instead of getting a small screen at the bottom, telling you what the corpse is holding, I am more curious to the possibilities how it could be expanded. What can you do with it to make it feel more atmospheric, as well as interesting and effective "ease-of-use"?

 

Another interface could be an "Equipment" screen, but for the slain creature/bandit, much akin to the Equipment screen of your character.

 

I vision it as the Baldur's Gate Equipment screen, in this case:

 

1, You click the corpse

2a, A window, in-game, is displayed in the game with the BG Equipment screen.

2b, additionally, your Equipment screen could be brought up side-by-side for easy access and "trading" equipment between corpse and you.

3, Hovering your mouse pointer over the helmet, you'll get a "DA:O" transparent information/details box what the Helmet statistically does.

4a, One left-click and the Helmet automatically is thrown into your limited inventory.

4b, One right-click and you automatically equip it.

5, in case you did not equip it in 4b. Go into your inventory, equip/inspect further/maybe better on your Thief etc. etc. the macro-management stuff

 

EDIT:

maybe there's a "campfire" button on the UI that allows you to drop a camp somewhere on that map and the mule automatically stays there.

 

Waypoints! There could be Camp Sites scattered about the world, mechanically they would be like "Waypoints" in Diablo II, you have to find them before you can use them. These points could also be points in which you can Fast Travel from Camp Site to Camp Site (Without going to the "edge" of the screen).

 

Remember the Scenario Sawyer brought up and asked us about what was good about the experience of walking back to camp?

 

I can totally see how this Camp Site thing could be directly combined with that.

 

There is a camp fire in Baldur's Gate, right outside a Goblin cave (in Tradeway North). For some reason I always rest by it when I'm in that area.

 

There could be different difficulties on it too, in hardcore mode the Mule can be slain, but in Casual/Normal the Mule always flee's.

Edited October 3, 2012 by Osvir

[Osvir]

Sorry for double-posting/bumping, I can't edit any of my posts.

 

Fatigue Thread:

<M.I.A can't find it, looked around for a little bit but got stuck in another thread instead>

Just wanted to fill out this because I found the thread

http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/60903-alternatives-to-vancian-or-cooldowns-other-suggestions/

Why did I want to link to this thread? Several hours has passed since I began writing this Pack-A-Mule thread and the inspiration and flow of ideas I had back then seems to be gone, remembrance as well.

 

I think it had something to do with fatigue and camp site features fit very well into each other? Or something? Anyways, yes sorry again for bumping/double posting.

[Ieo]

EDIT:

maybe there's a "campfire" button on the UI that allows you to drop a camp somewhere on that map and the mule automatically stays there.

 

Waypoints! There could be Camp Sites scattered about the world, mechanically they would be like "Waypoints" in Diablo II, you have to find them before you can use them. These points could also be points in which you can Fast Travel from Camp Site to Camp Site (Without going to the "edge" of the screen).

 

Remember the Scenario Sawyer brought up and asked us about what was good about the experience of walking back to camp?

 

I can totally see how this Camp Site thing could be directly combined with that.

 

There is a camp fire in Baldur's Gate, right outside a Goblin cave (in Tradeway North). For some reason I always rest by it when I'm in that area.

 

There could be different difficulties on it too, in hardcore mode the Mule can be slain, but in Casual/Normal the Mule always flee's.

Sorry for double-posting/bumping, I can't edit any of my posts.

 

Fatigue Thread:

<M.I.A can't find it, looked around for a little bit but got stuck in another thread instead>

Just wanted to fill out this because I found the thread

http://forums.obsidi...er-suggestions/

Why did I want to link to this thread? Several hours has passed since I began writing this Pack-A-Mule thread and the inspiration and flow of ideas I had back then seems to be gone, remembrance as well.

 

I think it had something to do with fatigue and camp site features fit very well into each other? Or something? Anyways, yes sorry again for bumping/double posting.

 

Right, I was thinking of the campsite-mule-stop-waypoint thinger as something related to the rest mechanic in that thread. (Repeat: I want it all! Cooldowns, spell slots, mana, rest, fatigue, soul!) Something to help with both inventory and whatever interesting post-combat mechanic they come up with.

 

Oh, allowing the mule to be slain at harder difficulty levels would be a nice touch. You wouldn't lose any of your stuff, of course, you'd just have to figure out what to carry...

 

 

Edit: Per the inventory UI mechanics, it's hard for me to discuss without a bunch of pictures, but ideally drag-n-drop would only exist between party member inventories. Clicky for everything else, including vendors...

Edited October 4, 2012 by Ieo

[Osvir]

Oh, allowing the mule to be slain at harder difficulty levels would be a nice touch. You wouldn't lose any of your stuff, of course, you'd just have to figure out what to carry...

 

The question is... would you be able to resurrect it at a Temple? xD

 

Exactly what I was thinking though, the Mule would both be a nice Gift to your inventory and adventuring, but it could also be a difficult tactical encumbrance. The price you pay for an extra "party" member. Of course, the Mule should also cause more bandit random encounters as you fast travel through the world (as in if this would have been a feature in, per say, Baldur's Gate).

 

Edit: Per the inventory UI mechanics, it's hard for me to discuss without a bunch of pictures, but ideally drag-n-drop would only exist between party member inventories. Clicky for everything else, including vendors...

 

I'll work on something in photoshop. Basically something along the way of this:

http://downloads.spellholdstudios.net/scrn/81-1208086572-1ppv2_screenshot.jpg

 

You see the entirety of the slain creature, in this case a Human. If hovering the mouse over the head, you would see what Helmet etc. etc.

 

I want it all! too!

[nikolokolus]

As long as the "mule" is a hill giant that my barbarian enslaves and constantly humiliates by forcing it to carry all of my shiny toys then I'm all for it.

 

[Ieo]

As long as the "mule" is a hill giant that my barbarian enslaves and constantly humiliates by forcing it to carry all of my shiny toys then I'm all for it.

 

 

How about faction pack animals earned through reputation, so there's a pack critter diversity? ...Maybe one race uses pack trolls..

[Lady Evenstar]

I'd love to be able to unload my mule and set up camp in the wilderness.

[Osvir]

I can think of several different ones;

* Enslaved Hill Giant

* Mule/Donkey

* Horse

* Knave

* Cow

* Mountain Goat (I think they are larger)

* Boar

* Basilisk?

* Worg's?

* Lore-creatures-I-don't-know-the-name-of?

 

I remember a thread on "Mounts" (never read it, only saw it in the Forums). Could a Pack Mule and a Mount be combined into one? Now, I wouldn't be using my Knave as a mount, but some options could be combined (Horse as an example). I can see them giving different benefits too.

 

The Giant can't enter dungeons, can carry a fair bit, can Guard himself (without risk of loosing any gear).

The Knave can enter dungeons, is slow, can carry a fair bit more than the PC but not as much as the Horse or the Giant.

The Donkey/Mule can carry the most, can't enter dungeons, but is easily targeted by Bandits when you enter a dungeon.

The Horse is fast, mountable, can't enter dungeons, can carry a fair bit, easily targeted by Bandits when you enter a dungeon.

[AlphaShard]

This is why Bag of Holdings were invented.

[Ieo]

This is why Bag of Holdings were invented.

 

Overpowered, I'd rather not see that in PE... as much as I loved them in BG and metagamed to get one ASAP...

 

I'd rather have a pack critter hold all the major gear like armour sets than allow the party members themselves carry that into battle. I mean, armour sets are heavy and bulky. A couple weapons would make sense to carry on-person, but carrying three 2-handed swords would be really weird.

 

Also---no mounts. Really no mounts. Totally unnecessary given the intended map travel that would really add only a cosmetic sprite element that would have to be linked to combat mechanics (what happens if you're attacked while mounted, etc.)--just too much work for so little gain, unless "travel" is a main theme. At least the addition of a pack animal itself, and I'd love it alongside a campsite, would have true utility (and "inventory" is definitely a main theme in a typical CRPG).

[Nonek]

Did you mean my old thread Osvir:

 

http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/60111-rest-injuries-and-recuperation/?do=findComment&comment=1188190

[Osvir]

Ah no, I think if you scroll up a couple of links you'll find it. It's a thread about "Fatigue" and "Breathe" being a mechanic like Health.

Best way I can explain Fatigue in a game is kind of like... Stamina? Diablo II is an excellent example where it is used. In a game like P:E Fatigue would have more depth though, and a lot of actions would have to cost Fatigue and all other things.

 

TrashMan did a pretty good post on it, check it out

http://forums.obsidi...er-suggestions/

 

Breathe would be something that we seen in Dragon Age: Origins, the "Passive" abilities you had to activate, but doing so you lost a good portion of your Mana/Stamina bar which was a great feature and idea/solution in DA:O. With the latest announcement/Update Tim Cain seems to suggest that a Fatigue System won't be used in this particular way (He doesn't mention fatigue, I think? So it's all in speculation if the parameter of Fatigue/Stamina is going to be present):

 

Update #16:

http://forums.obsidi...-dungeon-grows/

 

Also:

*reads your link*

 

Imma post on your link :D some pretty sweet ideas mate.

 

Overpowered, I'd rather not see that in PE... as much as I loved them in BG and metagamed to get one ASAP...

 

I'm an ASAP man too, Scroll Cases, Potion Bags, Unlimited Quivers, Gem Bags, Bags of Holding. Many of these are mods though, and like you said I can only agree with a twist: I'd rather not see that in vanilla PE.

Edited October 6, 2012 by Osvir

[Nonek]

Pack mule does sound like the most viable solution, best part of the Dungeon Siege game.

[Hypevosa]

I proposed a portable hole in my inventory thread that allows you to essentially enter a small dungeon where you can just drop gear you find, I imagine this would be a very hard find or very expensive at the least.

 

Also tensor's floating disk for mages to help tote gear around for the group.

[Osvir]

I proposed a portable hole in my inventory thread that allows you to essentially enter a small dungeon where you can just drop gear you find, I imagine this would be a very hard find or very expensive at the least.

 

Also tensor's floating disk for mages to help tote gear around for the group.

 

Terranigma reference? :D

[Hypevosa]

I proposed a portable hole in my inventory thread that allows you to essentially enter a small dungeon where you can just drop gear you find, I imagine this would be a very hard find or very expensive at the least.

 

Also tensor's floating disk for mages to help tote gear around for the group.

 

Terranigma reference? :D

 

Nope, just a DM for D&D. I had a player actually raise enough money I let him buy a portable hole - it just made doing treasure easier since he was so insanely strong he could lift near anything anyways, so he would just pile treasure into it since he and the group had a fancy for hunting dragons. I was always sure to check if a bag of holding was in a horde though ;D

 

Tensor's floating disk is sadly underused in D&D I've found - such an incredibly useful spell with a little creative application. We had a game where one of the players was magically altered to be almost spherically fat - so a mage used tensor's floating disk and the group helped him make a disguise check to paint and prop him up like a beholder, the check was so good that only the enemies who had seen one before or made an epic spot check managed to see through it (5 enemies of a camp of 30+).

 

Tensor's floating disk is great for dragging dead bodies, transporting gear, or even moving players whose legs are not functioning for one reason or another. Carries a huge load at higher levels and lasts hours at a time. I love it.

[trulez]

I want to hire a band of beggar orphans to carry all my gear around, and if they don't behave I'll whip them.

[Ieo]

I proposed a portable hole in my inventory thread that allows you to essentially enter a small dungeon where you can just drop gear you find, I imagine this would be a very hard find or very expensive at the least.

 

Also tensor's floating disk for mages to help tote gear around for the group.

 

The enter-a-small-dungeon thing reminded me more of the Pocket Plane in BG2, which was certainly convenient. That reminds me--I wonder how convenient the player house will be in terms of travel and storage.

 

The floating disk---I wonder if there could be magical containers (bag/pack type) that require soul power to properly use, and in exchange, are powerful enough to carry a giant load. I mean, it would still be a bag of holding in practice, but there'd be a lore reason and some 'cost' for it.

[Hypevosa]

I proposed a portable hole in my inventory thread that allows you to essentially enter a small dungeon where you can just drop gear you find, I imagine this would be a very hard find or very expensive at the least.

 

Also tensor's floating disk for mages to help tote gear around for the group.

 

The enter-a-small-dungeon thing reminded me more of the Pocket Plane in BG2, which was certainly convenient. That reminds me--I wonder how convenient the player house will be in terms of travel and storage.

 

The floating disk---I wonder if there could be magical containers (bag/pack type) that require soul power to properly use, and in exchange, are powerful enough to carry a giant load. I mean, it would still be a bag of holding in practice, but there'd be a lore reason and some 'cost' for it.

 

The bag of holding is infused with the soul left in a rogue's severed hand... ;D

[septembervirgin]

I love the idea of a mule being an extra companion. If mules cannot be added I do hope that they get reference as off-screen presences. "Well, the mules are packed with the gold..." that sort of thing can be nice.

[Osvir]

I think they have something equivalent in mind. There's going to be a "soul" type character following you around... a "spirit" thing (a third-party Morte floating about), I don't know if it's going to fill this mule purpose or not but there's some consideration (from devs) that seem to be hint towards something... similar... :D