Magic spell customisation

[IchigoRXC]

So have you ever played a game with some really cool spells or spell effects, but felt it didn't quite cater to your need. You can sling a fire arrow or an acid arrow at someone, but you feel an arrow of freezing a lightning arrow would fit your character much better?

 

I would like to see some sort of ability for high level mages (if that is the route they go down) to be able to research and transcribe their very own spell. They could name it and based on how the spell comes about, (buffs, debuffs, AoE, saves etc) changes the spell casting time and the level of the spell. Perhaps it could increase the likeliness of spell failure if you are going a little extreme with your spell design.

 

The recent update including the stretch goal at 2.4 Million, which I am hoping we will meet head on within the next week included weapon creation, customisation and enchantments Which I made a previous topic about, which was wonderful news in my mind.

 

From this I would like to see a spell alteration/creation ability late in the game. Cone of Acid breath perhaps or maybe your magic missiles replaced with extremely angry chickens (for the wild mages out there). I just feel if mages created their own spells and name them after themselves, once you reach the height of your game, you should be able to join them as legends, forever known through the use of their spells.

 

 

 

As an after thought, if then you could trade spells with friends and they are mysteriously scribed into scrolls somewhere in your friends game (do the same with weapons) it could be a really nice idea. Sharing a bit of your game world with them, and vice versa.

[Osvir]

Great idea :D

 

Some feedback.

 

Friend Sharing: In-Game Sharing? How? Why? I could simply send the files through Skype or other methods. I love the idea, but I am curious as to how and why, so that it still rings true lore-ishly.

 

Editing Spells: Totally down for that. If we take the different Arrows, Acid, Ice, Fire, Lightning... could this be a deeper mechanic wherein you can memorize which element you wish to use in combination with the arrow spell? (Regular spell casts a Non-Elemental Force of Energy in the shape of an arrow). Upgrading spells?

* How would you Edit this content inside the game?

 

Legendary Spells/Forged Weapons: I think this question belongs in this category (also by you):

http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/60551-lengendary-weapons-made-by-you/page__st__20

so how would this work? I can understand it for weapons, because that is an easier element to take care of within the game. But for spells I am honestly unsure. I don't doubt a system could be built around it for customization of spells, but how? I can't wrap my head around this, mostly just wanted to post the link on this one.

[IchigoRXC]

 

so how would this work? I can understand it for weapons, because that is an easier element to take care of within the game. But for spells I am honestly unsure. I don't doubt a system could be built around it for customization of spells, but how? I can't wrap my head around this, mostly just wanted to post the link on this one.

 

Well my very initial ideas are various spell types and ranges. Projectile types (magic missle, arrow attacks). Customising them would fall under the, how many projectiles, what projectiles would they be, any added effects, any element. With this in mind, you create a spell that fires 5 small lightning arrows at the target, dealing small electrical damage and each has a chance to paralyse for x rounds.

 

Adapting a cone spell could be as easy as changing the distance and the spread of the attack.

 

An AoE like fireball could have the size of the blast changed as well as element and effect additions. An AoE like call lightning could have extended times or smaller times and more powerful bolts.

 

Oblivion had a spell alteration ability which was quite fun, obviously couldn't be implemented in the same way but I would like to think that if someone could knock the nail on the head with this one, it would be Obsidian.

[Tauron]

As for AoE and cone and such...I would like to see if we for exampel cast a firewall, that we are acually able to make the shape of the "wall". Pause if you will ingame, make shape than cast. I can even see some nice animations with hand movement as mage channels the energies.

 

Remeber whn lvling higher in BG, and got several magic missiles and firearrows, dont you wish we could choose several targets instead just one?

 

I dont know what ruleset it is, but specialisation or prestige class you could have was Arch-mage and one of perks you had was Elemental mastery..to cast anyspell and choose element you would have as damage. I kinda missed that they didnt implement that feature in NWN2.

[Osvir]

As for AoE and cone and such...I would like to see if we for exampel cast a firewall, that we are acually able to make the shape of the "wall". Pause if you will ingame, make shape than cast. I can even see some nice animations with hand movement as mage channels the energies.

 

Remeber whn lvling higher in BG, and got several magic missiles and firearrows, dont you wish we could choose several targets instead just one?

 

Oh oh! Like Fable 3! Where you can choose to direct it or build it up around you, giving it different effects.

 

In a cRPG, like Project Eternity, it could be elaborated even further! :D I can totally see how it could be done, different shapes would give it different pro's and con's. Like choosing a Class, either you go with the generic Warrior or you can choose one of the Kits for added pros/cons (just a parallel).

 

A Fireball if shot straight forward, a Firewall if placed as a line, Fire Cross/Eruption if placed in a cross. Each and every one of the "geometry" could also have sub-"divisions" where you can make them larger (but weaker) or concentrated/stronger (but smaller AoE).

 

EDIT: * Fire Ring/Meteor/Rain if placed in a ring~

Edited October 2, 2012 by Osvir

[AlexAB]

While I usually love spell creation system in games, I think this project might not be the best for it. One of the things I loved about IE games (and D&D in general) is that spells are quirky and complicated. A fireball isn't simply 1D6 of damage per caster level. It is a ball of fire! It sets things on fire. You can lose scrolls or other easily burned items if you a caught in one. It doesn't just become a dome of fire, it expands to fill its volume! If you aren't careful and you are in a low ceiling area, it may well burn you because you didn't account for the size. If the area is closed up, you might end up with superheated air lacking in oxygen as the only thing left to breath! Of course, most of these weren't actually implemented in IE, but still, a bit of the quirkness of the system showed through.

 

My point is that games that allow you to build spells from basic elements yield basic spells. People sometimes complain about D&D having too many redundant spells. But they aren't redundant, they are each a little bit different than the next. Sometimes they even become part of the setting. I would much prefer if, for example, the game allowed us t research a set of spells, but the spells were pre-made by the designers beforehand to be as interesting as possible. Maybe a series of quests, or some weird system they provide us to experiment and understand (or maybe both). The results being somewhat guessable, but not predictable. Like, you might manage to mix the fire ball spell with the ice element (or maybe not), but the result isn't simply a blue fire-ball that does ice damage. It is something unique like, maybe, a snowball spell that becomes more powerful (bigger and faster) the more it gets to move, and which can get rid of opponents in open areas easily.

[Osvir]

@AlexAB, great pointers!

 

Thank you as well! *wittingly sarcastic * now I want to see area of environmental effect spells! Cast a fireball inside a wooden house proved to not be a good idea anymore, now the house burned down, although you did manage to scare the burglar away, the owner of the previously glorious house is less than satisfied.

[TheTeaMustFlow]

Definitely would support spell customisation. Let my enemies fear the power of my Teacup Storm!

 

Doesn't seem hugely likely though, alas. We can dream. And Mod.

[IchigoRXC]

My point is that games that allow you to build spells from basic elements yield basic spells. People sometimes complain about D&D having too many redundant spells. But they aren't redundant, they are each a little bit different than the next. Sometimes they even become part of the setting. I would much prefer if, for example, the game allowed us t research a set of spells, but the spells were pre-made by the designers beforehand to be as interesting as possible. Maybe a series of quests, or some weird system they provide us to experiment and understand (or maybe both). The results being somewhat guessable, but not predictable. Like, you might manage to mix the fire ball spell with the ice element (or maybe not), but the result isn't simply a blue fire-ball that does ice damage. It is something unique like, maybe, a snowball spell that becomes more powerful (bigger and faster) the more it gets to move, and which can get rid of opponents in open areas easily.

 

I quite like this Idea, that the game has certain hidden pre-sets where when you combine to spells you do get something similar, but with an entirely different mechanism. The snowball is a fantastic idea.

 

 

My general jist was not about being given free reign to add and develop every single spell in the game in one playthrough, but more have it as a long drawn out research process. You would manage to make maybe 3-4 spells in your entire run through. It adds a bit of re playability and a nice reason to role a mage (take a mage).

 

I would love it if there were consequences to your spell casting actions rather than just mind the AoE. As you say, in a small confined area a fireball should spread quicker and further than normal, eating up available Oxygen and creating an asphyxiating effect. That would be awesome. Perhaps leaving water puddles nearby when cones of cold defrost, making electric spells more viable, but dangerous to nearby allies in/near the puddles.

 

 

Definitely would support spell customisation. Let my enemies fear the power of my Teacup Storm!

 

Doesn't seem hugely likely though, alas. We can dream. And Mod.

 

Anything as quirky as a teacup storm has my vote. I love the crazy things Wild magic had under it's sleeves in BG2. "I cast fireball... I get an army of squirrels..."

 

How about a money shield, telekinetically controlled money that floated around you deflecting ranged projectiles at the expense of your coffers. That would be quite something.

[metiman]

All Bethesda games have had this mechanic, right? I haven't played Oblivion or Skyrim. So I'm just guessing there but I think Arena, Daggerfall, and Morrowind had this sort of thing. I'm not sure how I feel about that mechanic. I didn't use it much in those games because it seemed to somehow make spells less interesting when it was just choosing a list of effects and damage.

[general_azure]

All Bethesda games have had this mechanic, right? I haven't played Oblivion or Skyrim.

 

Oblivion has it, Skyrim does not. And Skyrim is generally a lot more restricting when it comes to damage dealing spells (there are not that many).

[IchigoRXC]

Yeah, I can't play as a Mage in skyrim (far too restrictive) which is the route I would usually go down. I would hope that Obsidians take on it would be much more involved and well suited for the cRPG genre. I don't think spells are less interesting when you can take the foundations of a spell (shoots in this direction) and add your own sort of flare to it. I choose a chromatic orb base, with the ability to turn the person it hits invisible.

 

3 variables, direction (and distance), type of spell (projectile orb), and what it does (Invisibility).

 

Ichigo's Shadow Orb - level X spell. Casting time y.

[agewisdom]

This would be a cool stretch goal. Why not allow this ability to be unlocked as part of a main side quest? You could customize your spells as you progress further up in the Wizard's Guild. Your higher rank would allow the Guild to unlock more resources in term of researchers etc. to allow you to create specific customized spells.

[Tauron]

As for AoE and cone and such...I would like to see if we for exampel cast a firewall, that we are acually able to make the shape of the "wall". Pause if you will ingame, make shape than cast. I can even see some nice animations with hand movement as mage channels the energies.

 

Remeber whn lvling higher in BG, and got several magic missiles and firearrows, dont you wish we could choose several targets instead just one?

 

Oh oh! Like Fable 3! Where you can choose to direct it or build it up around you, giving it different effects.

 

In a cRPG, like Project Eternity, it could be elaborated even further! :D I can totally see how it could be done, different shapes would give it different pro's and con's. Like choosing a Class, either you go with the generic Warrior or you can choose one of the Kits for added pros/cons (just a parallel).

 

A Fireball if shot straight forward, a Firewall if placed as a line, Fire Cross/Eruption if placed in a cross. Each and every one of the "geometry" could also have sub-"divisions" where you can make them larger (but weaker) or concentrated/stronger (but smaller AoE).

 

EDIT: * Fire Ring/Meteor/Rain if placed in a ring~

 

Havent played Fable 3, so I wouldnt know.

 

Ahhh, well I didnt think to overcomplicate it like that,hehe...Just simply to have firewall in a shape it fits your use. Longer than the custom shape and you spend more power/mana/stamina, depending on how magic will be used. Not just firewall, but let say you are able to manipulate other elements, like earth. In Arcanum , there were times i wished i could make shape of the wall, like around my character, for duration of the spell, until i heal or rethink my tactics.

 

What you propse might be interesting as we dont know how magic will work. I had similar idea if they go that way. Have you played android/os game Alchemy? Basically, you start with four elements, combining them you gain different stuff...earth fire = lava, earth air = dust , etc. It is really simple yet very intuitive system and having different shapes as you propose might give different effects to it as you channel and duration of channeling, power. Of course you could save these spells, so next time you just cast the on fly.

[Umberlin]

In a way I get why people like customization for magic. It's sort of the point of becoming a Wizard, or something like that, outside of power, to one day create your own spells toward your own ends. No longer using, "Mr. Whosit's: Super Powerful Energy Ball IV" but instead creating your own magics, naming them. Also selling your magically enchanted wares on the open market at cut throat prices because you've turned all the competition into toads.

[Gyges]

I support this.

[rjshae]

Speaking of spells, I wouldn't mind seeing a more sophisticated system of spell learning.

 

Hmm... how about if you always learn a spell at lower level of casting? Each time you cast it, or each time you rise a level, there's a chance your spell level increases. (Achievement!)

 

You can bypass all of this by going to an instructor, or carrying around a weighty tome of your known spells.

 

Yes I know the munchkin gamers won't like this.

[Osvir]

Speaking of spells, I wouldn't mind seeing a more sophisticated system of spell learning.

 

Hmm... how about if you always learn a spell at lower level of casting? Each time you cast it, or each time you rise a level, there's a chance your spell level increases. (Achievement!)

 

You can bypass all of this by going to an instructor, or carrying around a weighty tome of your known spells.

 

Yes I know the munchkin gamers won't like this.

 

This. I suppose you are talking about individual spell experience? So the Magic Missile spell would level up the more you use it, correct/wrong?

 

I support this.

[Umberlin]

Sounds like a skill based system, say the Quest for Glory series, where a spell's power/effectiveness was calculated from two directions the major factor being your 'skill' in the spell. The first game went from 0-100 and by the fourth game you could bring a skill in any given spell up to 400, and then the fifth game and so on. I'm not sure how I feel about that for a IE styled game to be honest . . . I know from experience it can work, but, it also had its problems. Now obviously this isn't really the exact same as ranking a spell up, and possibly augmenting or outright improving its core function, as well as possibly adding onto it, but it's the first thing that came to mind.

 

Like I said, not sure how I feel about that sort of system for an IE styled game. Though, obviously, if you discount 'use' and just 'it improves' than many D&D spells improved themselves with caster level so . . . yeah. It might not be particularly 'with use' but it comes to the same thing, 'the spell is improved as you advance' albeit not directly as you could, potentially, never have bothered to use said spell, and it would still improve as your caster level did.

Edited October 3, 2012 by Umberlin

[rjshae]

Speaking of spells, I wouldn't mind seeing a more sophisticated system of spell learning.

 

Hmm... how about if you always learn a spell at lower level of casting? Each time you cast it, or each time you rise a level, there's a chance your spell level increases. (Achievement!)

 

You can bypass all of this by going to an instructor, or carrying around a weighty tome of your known spells.

 

Yes I know the munchkin gamers won't like this.

 

This. I suppose you are talking about individual spell experience? So the Magic Missile spell would level up the more you use it, correct/wrong?

 

I support this.

 

Kind of. If you try to learn it yourself and use it without a spellbook, at 5th level you'd cast Fireball at the first level or proficiency so it only causes a wimpy 1d6 damage. But by repeatedly using it, or by advancing to 6th level, your caster level would increase to 2nd, 3rd, and so forth.

 

Might be too much detail though. Shrug.

[agewisdom]

Speaking of spells, I wouldn't mind seeing a more sophisticated system of spell learning.

 

Hmm... how about if you always learn a spell at lower level of casting? Each time you cast it, or each time you rise a level, there's a chance your spell level increases. (Achievement!)

 

You can bypass all of this by going to an instructor, or carrying around a weighty tome of your known spells.

 

Yes I know the munchkin gamers won't like this.

 

This. I suppose you are talking about individual spell experience? So the Magic Missile spell would level up the more you use it, correct/wrong?

 

I support this.

 

This could work but might needs to have some explanation in-game to let the player know. After all, most of us wouldn't have experience with this type of magic system.

[Gorth]

Anyone played Paradox's 'Magicka'? It may not be to this particular crowds liking, but I kind of enjoyed it, not just for the humour, but because of the spell customisation. You had a number of basic mechanisms you could combine to create new (and sometimes unexpected) effects involving elemental, physical and other alterations to the result (one of them catapulted my mage to his death in a most surprising manner).

[Umberlin]

It was cute. I'm not sure I'd call that customization as much as combination.

[Tamerlane]

Daggerfall had some baller-tier spell creation, if my memory serves.

 

I dunno if this is the kind of game that that'd really... fit in to, though.

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

"Custom" spells would be quite good. I don't see any reason, other than cost, why not to include such a feature.

 

Also I think that something like metamagic(from D&D 3/3.5) would also be an interesting mechanic.