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Posted

Alright, if you could change the title to Inventory Management Proposal *Edited*, this is the contents (and thanks):

 

The following is my proposal for how I believe the inventory management system in PE should work. My goal was to provide interesting depth while avoiding as much tedium as possible. I'm going to go over everything from the backpack, to equipment, to currency, and anything in between. Most of the system is automatic to stop 15 minute inventory rearrangements, while alot of detail, this is simply describing why and how it works.

 

I'm a D&D pen and paper DM, naturally you'll see some references to that here - not that it's out of place since baldur's gate and other games are D&D based, but don't feel special for calling me on it.

 

If you aren't interested in the details, I’ve put spoiler tags around the bulk of things and left the examples and TL;DR visible.

 

First and foremost I propose a system that combines volume and mass. Mass being your typical carrying capacity that's limited by your player's strength.

 

Mass, Treasure, and Currency:

 

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Volume, Tetris without the shuffle games:

 

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Types of Packs:

 

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Time or Room saving items:

 

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Equipment:

 

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How this system works:

 

When not in combat, your backpack will always be opened automatically on going to the inventory screen, when in combat, your other containers like quiver, potion clip, and scroll case will be open since items in the pack take time to get to. You can also then drag any containers to the ground, effectively dropping all that gear if you need to lighten your load before combat. This should save time compared to dragging and dropping individual items, only to pick them up moments later.

 

Example of how it looks outside combat with an empty adventurer's pack (forgive me, I only have MSpaint to work with right now... >_>):

 

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Now here's the same inventory, but where a sword has been placed in the bulky slot, freeing up more volume.

 

 

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And now the same inventory where there are 3 of that sword.

 

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Clicking once on the swords would take one, but double clicking would take all of them. Shift clicking would bring up the take X menu.

 

If autosorting was turned off, instead the inventory area would show enough small slots to represent the space in the bag, but where the shape only allowed one bulky (4x8) item to fit.

 

If there were a weapon or item too long to fit in the bag, it would be forced into a strap slot.

 

TL;DR

 

Advantages of this system:

- Depth and tactics that combat has rarely been afforded in other games.

---- Dropping a pack or belt with gear on it can allow you to lighten your load before a fight without dropping tons of junk. 1 drop and 1 pickup.

---- Equipping whole quivers of 60 arrows instead of bundles of 20 allows one to quickly refit an archer.

---- Taking gear from an enemy's dropped pack, or a rogue pick-pocketing a strapped on item.

---- Leaving cursed or poisoned items out on dropped packs for enemies to take as a new kind of trap.

---- Enemies taking gear and using it for themselves from dropped packs.

---- Containers serve more purpose but aren't necessary to keep a pack from filling full of tiny items.

- Less playing the shuffle game, but still keeping things more interesting than an infinite adventurer's backpack of storage. Tetris is optional for those who want it.

- Gems and scrolls don't take the same space as a full plate armor

- Currency and bartering are more interesting as there's less incentive to just instantly sell everything you pick up.

- Interesting variations of containers lead to new roleplaying experience (like the pouches that create counterfeit money)

 

Neutral points:

- Slightly more realistic since volume is accounted for

- Automatic transference of items is a little unrealistic.

 

Disadvantages of this system:

- Some items may be automatically transferred to another character's storage item without you wanting it there. (I'm assuming 95% of gems and the like are going to just need to be sold)

- No carrying 10 full plate armors in one backpack (items needing bulky slots like full/half plate should be rarer anyways)

- No carrying 100,000 coins on one character.

- Extra containers needed to optimize inventory space and time to acquire found items (however, these containers should be easily found on others and not need to be bought - most mages or clerics would have a scroll box, many rogues would have coin purses or gem boxes, etc. We shouldn't have to find what random shop is carrying a gem bag for example)

- An enemy trapping you in your own portable hole and your party being unable to free you in time or dying would kind of suck.

  • Like 4
Posted

For individual character inventories, the NWN inventory system was just about perfect. It was manually sortable, the grid accounted for the problem of large items, and anything in there could be placed on the hotbar for quick use. Aside from perhaps being too large (4 pages might be better than 6), it was brilliant.

 

For shared inventory, I have to refer to the only game I can recall handling group encumbrance well, and that's Wizardry 8.

 

I'm not a big fan of shared inventory, so I would rather individual inventories in an NWN style (weight + tetris).

God used to be my co-pilot, but then we crashed in the Andes and I had to eat him.

Posted (edited)

Sorry about a lack of brevity, but the proposal was for an entire system, hence why I gave a warning to skip to "how this works" and the bits at the end. If there were spoiler tags I'd have used those to cut the post in size.

 

The inventory isn't shared, this inventory is for every character - the items that automatically take what people pick up are largely doing so for convenience since, chances are, if you pick up a jewel you're just going to throw it at the person who has the container for it anyways, why not save that time?

 

The proposed system is essentially tetris that automatically sorts itself, keeping the player from needing to be in the inventory forever while also allowing the system to take volume into account.

Edited by Hypevosa
Posted

I'd be happy with BG 1/2 style inventories with a carry capacity stat to deal with bulky/heavy items. Abstraction is fine.

Posted
  On 10/1/2012 at 2:07 AM, Jasede said:

I'd be happy with BG 1/2 style inventories with a carry capacity stat to deal with bulky/heavy items. Abstraction is fine.

 

Having individual jewels and scrolls taking up the same slots as a full plate is my only issue with that system.

Posted
  On 10/1/2012 at 2:03 AM, Hypevosa said:

The proposed system is essentially tetris that automatically sorts itself, keeping the player from needing to be in the inventory forever while also allowing the system to take volume into account.

Taking volume into account ins't the only benefit of tetris, though. The manual sorting is itself a strength of inventory tetris, and you've discarded it.

 

I like tetris because it lets me put everything where I want it, and it stays there until I move it. Having to go browsing through my inventory to find things is a waste of time, and having to do it every time is a bigger waste of time than periodic sorting.

  • Like 1

God used to be my co-pilot, but then we crashed in the Andes and I had to eat him.

Posted (edited)

Bulky, flat, long, medium, small - if you can just recall the type of slot it's in, you'd find it instantly still, you can sort the items within their own sizes. If you're going to rearrange your whole inventory because you keep all the potions first, arrows second, armors third and weapons last in terms of where they are in your inventory left to right, and you just found a new stack of potions, that's usually quite a bit of resorting.

 

This system easily allows the tetris system to exist in it by just expanding all the slots into small slots. There could be an option to have auto sorting off and expand it.

 

Actually, that makes me realize that the tetris system, just with autosorting, would work as well with the packs I proposed simply giving a volume unit in small squares.

 

Anyways, what do you think of the other ideas?

 

unfortunately I can't edit the original post... awesome

Edited by Hypevosa
Posted

I've always thought that encumbrance should be based on the moment of inertia, but that's just physics for ya. ;)

 

Yes, varying inventory grid slots by item size is a nice touch. Some way of quickly seeing the heaviest items is also useful.

"It has just been discovered that research causes cancer in rats."

Posted
  On 10/1/2012 at 3:28 AM, rjshae said:

I've always thought that encumbrance should be based on the moment of inertia, but that's just physics for ya. ;)

 

Yes, varying inventory grid slots by item size is a nice touch. Some way of quickly seeing the heaviest items is also useful.

 

Could just have a number representing the weight in one of the corners?

Posted

A volume + weight mechanic is fine, but why all of the different sized slots? Something like 250 weight + 500 volume would suffice, e.g. helmets are light but volumunous, battle hammers are heavy but use little space.

 

It is an interesting idea, but these different slot sizes irritate me and is not better (maybe even worse) than inventory tetris in my opinion.

  • Like 1

:closed:

Posted

My god, OP your wall of text reads sort of similar to another proposal I read some other user come up with under a different thread except it was for lockpicking, you end with a ludicerously overcomplicated system, BG was just fine, your idea about weight for money I think is also fine (maybe under HC mode) but everything else!!?? Yikes.

 

I think BG did quite well with regards to inventory management, anything more then this and you start making the game about inventory 101 and people will start requesting guides from others as to how it works.

 

Imo something like inventory management should not become this convoluted.

 

I like the idea you have about different bags holding different amounts for example, but this was already covered in BG2, with Bottomless Bags of Holding being able to allow you to carry the most amount of items (also pretty much anything as well when compared to say a Scroll Case - only for spell scrolls).

Posted
  On 10/1/2012 at 3:30 AM, Hypevosa said:
  On 10/1/2012 at 3:28 AM, rjshae said:

I've always thought that encumbrance should be based on the moment of inertia, but that's just physics for ya. ;)

 

Yes, varying inventory grid slots by item size is a nice touch. Some way of quickly seeing the heaviest items is also useful.

 

Could just have a number representing the weight in one of the corners?

 

Or maybe a sort by weight button with the heaviest stuff clunking to the bottom.

"It has just been discovered that research causes cancer in rats."

Posted (edited)
  On 10/1/2012 at 3:50 AM, Liquid_Silver11 said:

My god, OP your wall of text reads sort of similar to another proposal I read some other user come up with under a different thread except it was for lockpicking, you end with a ludicerously overcomplicated system, BG was just fine, your idea about weight for money I think is also fine (maybe under HC mode) but everything else!!?? Yikes.

 

I think BG did quite well with regards to inventory management, anything more then this and you start making the game about inventory 101 and people will start requesting guides from others as to how it works.

 

Imo something like inventory management should not become this convoluted.

 

I like the idea you have about different bags holding different amounts for example, but this was already covered in BG2, with Bottomless Bags of Holding being able to allow you to carry the most amount of items (also pretty much anything as well when compared to say a Scroll Case - only for spell scrolls).

 

It hardly needs a guide when it works automatically and should be largely intuitive. Using a sack on another to empty the one into the other, for example, should be intuitive.

 

If I could edit the original post, I would be getting rid of the slots and just replacing it with the tetris system that sorts things for you, with the addition of the straps slots. This works essentially the same but it just names groupings of squares instead - which isn't really necessary in my eyes.

 

 

  On 10/1/2012 at 3:59 AM, rjshae said:
  On 10/1/2012 at 3:30 AM, Hypevosa said:
  On 10/1/2012 at 3:28 AM, rjshae said:

I've always thought that encumbrance should be based on the moment of inertia, but that's just physics for ya. ;)

 

Yes, varying inventory grid slots by item size is a nice touch. Some way of quickly seeing the heaviest items is also useful.

 

Could just have a number representing the weight in one of the corners?

 

Or maybe a sort by weight button with the heaviest stuff clunking to the bottom.

 

That could work.

Edited by Hypevosa
Posted

I don't know which inventory system would be best. I think all the different kinds of inventories I've seen have had their own flaws but a lot of them seem easily fixed.

Like the "tetris-style" inventory from Diablo or Deus Ex: HR, all they really need is an auto-sorting button(already done in Arcanum, I think?) and the capability to click and drag several items at once. DE:HR even let you rotate the items - which would, no doubt, work even better when you can actually use the mouse.

As for the BG's, I guess the worst thing was non-stacking gems and stuff taking up your space.

The WoW inventory is effective and designed for PC controls but I just find it, idunno, lacking in style?

I like the idea of a more "free-form" inventory, like in Morrowing or Quest for Glory 5. You'd equip stuff, but not in pre-designated boxes that surround your character in the inv. screen, so you could mix and match. Makes me feel fashionable.

Posted (edited)
  On 10/1/2012 at 2:03 AM, Hypevosa said:
If there were spoiler tags I'd have used those to cut the post in size.

Just FYI, there are spoiler tags. I don't see them as a WYSIWYG editor icon choice, but if you manually type the typical [ spoiler ] code tags around the chosen paragraphs it should work.

Edited by LadyCrimson
“Things are as they are. Looking out into the universe at night, we make no comparisons between right and wrong stars, nor between well and badly arranged constellations.” – Alan Watts
Posted

I have a simpler system in mind...

 

Think of having a inventory like BG2. No tetris because every items takes up one slot (heck, ti can even be an item list)

BUT

here's the difference

Each items has two stats - WEIGHT and VOLUME

 

Just like you have max weight you can carry, so you have max volume.

 

So basicly you just have to keep an eye out for those numbers to keep the inventory in shape. No shuffling.

 

That ring?

Weighs 0.5, takes up 1 volume unit

That very puffy outfit?

wights 6, takes up 20 volume units

 

 

So basicly you'd have

 

Weight: 50/100 (medium encumbrance)

Volume: 80/100

  • Like 3

* YOU ARE A WRONGULARITY FROM WHICH NO RIGHT CAN ESCAPE! *

Chuck Norris was wrong once - He thought HE made a mistake!

 

Posted

I don't mind straightforward encumbrance rules, i.e. weight versus strength, but this is too complex for me. As long as small items stack (i.e. I should easily be allowed to get 100 small gemstones in a single inventory slot) then I'm happy.

 

BG2's scroll cases, quivers, gem bags and potion satchels were a simple solution to a simple problem.

sonsofgygax.JPG

Posted
  On 10/1/2012 at 2:52 AM, Hypevosa said:

Bulky, flat, long, medium, small - if you can just recall the type of slot it's in, you'd find it instantly still, you can sort the items within their own sizes. If you're going to rearrange your whole inventory because you keep all the potions first, arrows second, armors third and weapons last in terms of where they are in your inventory left to right, and you just found a new stack of potions, that's usually quite a bit of resorting.

Hopefully you'd have the foresight to leave gaps to allow each grouping to grow.

 

In NWN, for example, the only thing I keep on the front page of the inventory is potions and anything reguarly swapped out. If I don't have enough potions to fill the space, then there's empty space there. Plot items are kept on the second page, and so on..

  Quote
This system easily allows the tetris system to exist in it by just expanding all the slots into small slots. There could be an option to have auto sorting off and expand it.

Being able to turn auto-sorting off would be terrific. I remember how much I liked the inventory system in the original Dungeon Siege, but then the expansion ruined it by adding a mandatory auto-sort feature. I never did finish the expansion.

  Quote
Actually, that makes me realize that the tetris system, just with autosorting, would work as well with the packs I proposed simply giving a volume unit in small squares.

Well, there you go. As mentioned, that inventory system already exists in Dungeon Siege: Legends of Aranna.

  Quote
Anyways, what do you think of the other ideas?

I like the idea of automatic money changing at merchants. I do not like the idea of decimal currency; that's entirely too modern a concept. If Britons could manage farthings and guineas, gamers can handle something more organic than decimal currency.

 

Anyway, I'm glad we reached agreement on Inventory Tetris with an optional Auto-Sort.

God used to be my co-pilot, but then we crashed in the Andes and I had to eat him.

Posted

I still think my proposal is the simplest, while also being realistic enough.

 

You still can't lug around 10 suits of plate armor, as both weight and valume are taken into acount.

* YOU ARE A WRONGULARITY FROM WHICH NO RIGHT CAN ESCAPE! *

Chuck Norris was wrong once - He thought HE made a mistake!

 

Posted (edited)
  On 10/1/2012 at 12:30 PM, TrashMan said:

I still think my proposal is the simplest, while also being realistic enough.

 

You still can't lug around 10 suits of plate armor, as both weight and valume are taken into acount.

 

That's basically the revised idea - I've been rewriting the document I'd saved this in, my problem is not being able to just edit my initial post, which is quite vexing >_<

 

Essentially I've broken it down into items have bulky slots and then volume around those slots - the reason I kept the bulky was simply because if you look at the adventurer's backpack, while it has the volume to fit 2 suits of full plate, the point was that the rigidity made it so only one could fit without it sticking out the top of it.

 

I'm going to make a new thread and have this one deleted if possible, and, should that not be condoned by a moderator, I'll see if they can just edit my post for me.

 

  On 10/1/2012 at 6:48 AM, LadyCrimson said:
  On 10/1/2012 at 2:03 AM, Hypevosa said:
If there were spoiler tags I'd have used those to cut the post in size.

Just FYI, there are spoiler tags. I don't see them as a WYSIWYG editor icon choice, but if you manually type the typical [ spoiler ] code tags around the chosen paragraphs it should work.

 

and thank you, I'll be sure to make use of these.

Edited by Hypevosa
Posted

I like volume + weight as an idea but I can see it getting reeeally complicated in practice. Perhaps just have a "Heavy" tag on some items that gives a strength penelty and a "Bulky" tag that gives a dexterity penelty? Otherwise treat them like normal items? It would encourage players to keep their inventory small when getting into a fight too.

 

Also, wearing items like a potionbelt, spellbook, scabbard belt or a quiver (or similar specialised inventory device) could give a quickdraw ability for any item of that type in that character's inventory, and mayabe also giving that item type a reduction in bulk or wieght penelty. (Let's assume the adventurer can figure out how to pack their own gear)

Posted

Expandable inventory. Even if I have to pay a lot for it, I want the ability to increase my inventory size.

  • Like 1

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