Encouraging Euro-Asian Interest

[norolim]

The only useful thing said in this topic so far was probably that almost noone in germany uses credit cards, meaning they can't use kickstarter either. If I hadn't gone on vacation in the states last year, I couldn't have pledged.

 

And the OP gave me a headache -.-

 

I think that's also the case in France and Poland. Don't they have Visa and Mastercard debit cards? I can understand not having credit cards, although they are less of a hassle if they get stolen or fraud happens than a card that has direct access to your bank account, but to not have any sort of card would seem bizarre to me.

 

Virtual credit cards is the answer in Poland. They are rather popular here. I'm using one.

[Loki Ador]

 

I think that's also the case in France and Poland. Don't they have Visa and Mastercard debit cards? I can understand not having credit cards, although they are less of a hassle if they get stolen or fraud happens than a card that has direct access to your bank account, but to not have any sort of card would seem bizarre to me.

 

Most people have a debit card in France. And having one is enough to pledge, so Paypal should not significantly move up french contributions

[Amentep]

Wizardry? You had to go back to the 1980's to give an example.

 

To be fair, Japanese companies are still making Wizardry games (for consoles). Wizardry Bōkyaku no Isan was put out in 2010 for the DS; Wizardry: Labyrinth of Lost Souls released to Japan and NA via PSN in 2009.

 

Still doesn't translate to this non-Wizardry like game being appealing to Asian countries (but maybe room to wonder if there's still a market for a new Wizardry game - totally different issue!)

Edited October 1, 2012 by Amentep

[evdk]

Hey, I am a market for a new Wizardry game.

 

Isn't that what Cleve is working on deep within the confines of his bunker?

[Adauli]

I doubt in germany you can get a much bether awearnes of this game as gamestar (one of the bigest gamenewspages in germany) made a news out of nearly every update so fare and other big pc gaming webpages did the same. So unless one also want to target the people not using the internet to get informed your already at the limit.

Edited October 1, 2012 by Adauli

[Amentep]

Hey, I am a market for a new Wizardry game.

 

Isn't that what Cleve is working on deep within the confines of his bunker?

 

I don't know if anyone is working on it - but even with the flaws I see in Wiz8 I'd love another proper Wizardry game.

 

Still total side issue to popularizing this style of game that isn't wizardry like at all.

Edited October 1, 2012 by Amentep

[Luckmann]

Wizardry? You had to go back to the 1980's to give an example.

 

To be fair, Japanese companies are still making Wizardry games (for consoles). Wizardry Bōkyaku no Isan was put out in 2010 for the DS; Wizardry: Labyrinth of Lost Souls released to Japan and NA via PSN in 2009.

 

Still doesn't translate to this non-Wizardry like game being appealing to Asian countries (but maybe room to wonder if there's still a market for a new Wizardry game - totally different issue!)

It's a bit unfair to say "Japanese companies are still making Wizardry games". Those games, albeit with the title on the box, has absolutely nothing to do whatsoever with what we associate with the Wizardry series.

[Streamlock]

I think for Euro markets simply promoting some of the translations for the non-english speakers and getting some face time on the euro emags combined with a couple online interviews would be sufficient, and not break the marketing bank. As far as Eastern Europe goes, I don't know of any market beyond Russia that would pay dividends.

 

Asia? Hmm, get on a Korean eMag or two-that might help. China? No go, if your lucky they will just pirate the game; most likely they will change the title screen and sell it as home grown.

 

Japan? lolololol. Well....I guess you could drink yourself stupid on saki then puke on a storyboard. Cut scraps from the story board and fold them in half and use that for some early art renderings. Market that right and it will go gangbusters. Hailed as a triumph in game developement. Might even be the harold in the 1st wave of PC gaming in Japan.......( I kid, I'm only half serious-still half mind you)

 

I don't know if this is still the case, but there used to be a boat load of Brazilians playing online games-don't know how much they are into cRPG's though.

[Kaldurenik]

I think for Euro markets simply promoting some of the translations for the non-english speakers and getting some face time on the euro emags combined with a couple online interviews would be sufficient, and not break the marketing bank. As far as Eastern Europe goes, I don't know of any market beyond Russia that would pay dividends.

 

Asia? Hmm, get on a Korean eMag or two-that might help. China? No go, if your lucky they will just pirate the game; most likely they will change the title screen and sell it as home grown.

 

Japan? lolololol. Well....I guess you could drink yourself stupid on saki then puke on a storyboard. Cut scraps from the story board and fold them in half and use that for some early art renderings. Market that right and it will go gangbusters. Hailed as a triumph in game developement. Might even be the harold in the 1st wave of PC gaming in Japan.......( I kid, I'm only half serious-still half mind you)

 

I don't know if this is still the case, but there used to be a boat load of Brazilians playing online games-don't know how much they are into cRPG's though.

What about US ?

[Buzzn Frogg]

The only useful thing said in this topic so far was probably that almost noone in germany uses credit cards, meaning they can't use kickstarter either. If I hadn't gone on vacation in the states last year, I couldn't have pledged.

 

And the OP gave me a headache -.-

 

I think that's also the case in France and Poland. Don't they have Visa and Mastercard debit cards? I can understand not having credit cards, although they are less of a hassle if they get stolen or fraud happens than a card that has direct access to your bank account, but to not have any sort of card would seem bizarre to me.

 

Visa and Mastercard debit cards are available here in germany, but usually for an extra fee. So most people don't want them. And our normal debit cards don't work with Amazon.com Payments (funnily enough they work with Amazon.de).

Most people here also don't have a credit card, because you just don't need one most of the time. Actually you just need one to shop online in (non-european) foreign countries. I myself didn't pledge anything on Kickstarter in the past, only because of that reason. Only when OE announced Eternity I went out of my way and ordered a prepaid credit card, but I can't see many people doing that.

So, when the Paypal option will be activated, I really would expect a spike in pledges just from germans. Sadly, these paypal donations will never appear on the Kickstarter page, as they said in their FAQ.

[evdk]

 

What about US ?

True, US would benefit from an English translation.

Edited October 1, 2012 by evdk

[Amentep]

Wizardry? You had to go back to the 1980's to give an example.

 

To be fair, Japanese companies are still making Wizardry games (for consoles). Wizardry Bōkyaku no Isan was put out in 2010 for the DS; Wizardry: Labyrinth of Lost Souls released to Japan and NA via PSN in 2009.

 

Still doesn't translate to this non-Wizardry like game being appealing to Asian countries (but maybe room to wonder if there's still a market for a new Wizardry game - totally different issue!)

It's a bit unfair to say "Japanese companies are still making Wizardry games". Those games, albeit with the title on the box, has absolutely nothing to do whatsoever with what we associate with the Wizardry series.

 

I don't disagree that the Japanese Wizardry's do not carry the story of the original series. That said, the last of the Japanese Wizardry's I played (Tales of the Forsaken Land) probably had more gameplay* in common with the early games than Wiz8 did (my perspective on the core Wizardry Games is the first two or three games and Wiz8) even if the story wasn't related to the Sir-Tech one.

 

YMMV, of course. My point was if we class "Wizardry" as a western style game then games of Wizardry's type - including games directly based on the original Wizardry - are still being made in Japan. But this doesn't translate into a "Japan will embrace an IE style game" argument.

 

*By this I mean, opponents grouped on a static screen, not moving in a 3D environment ala Wiz8 and only the original Wizardry races.

[general_azure]

Don't they have Visa and Mastercard debit cards? I can understand not having credit cards, although they are less of a hassle if they get stolen or fraud happens than a card that has direct access to your bank account, but to not have any sort of card would seem bizarre to me.

 

Short answer: German debit cards don't work well with online purchases, you need to scan a physical copy of the card

Long answer: wikipedia

[Umberlin]

Japanese game developers are of course going to play Western games, but that doesn't mean that they're successful to normal consumers. I'm sure Western developers are more likely to have Japanese imports.

 

Then you simply do not know the truth of it, as several of the western games I mentioned, and many more, are in fact succesful amongst the normal consumers. That's why some of the games I mention exist at all.

 

More importantly Japan does not have a PC gaming market, Bethesda games were sold to them on consoles, and so was Wizardry. Due to differences in popular hardware in the 1980's PC gaming never got traction in Japan.

 

If that's what you think then you're horribly unaware of the eastern PC gaming markets that exist heavily, you sound like every other person I've ever talked to about this subject, with only a minority being the exception. I gave examples, a few, because listing every last one would be a pain, and you act like the ones I gave are the only ones in all existence and proclaim some of the games given as examples to be 'shallow' and the only reason they're a success and so on and so forth it's like I've had this conversation before with clones of you.

 

Their PC market is pretty big actually, but, it also doesn't come over here a lot. Even amongst their console releases, given what knowledge you've shown so far, I think you'd be surprised at the amount they don't bring over here at all. As for Wizardry it was delivered to the east in more than one form, and, was a perfect example because not only is it a Western franchise that became popular in the east . . . but it's also a western franchise that the east adopted when it faltered, they kept it alive and are still making Wizardry games to this day. The only example? Not by a long shot but a well documented example certainly.

 

I'm sorry, but you're simply wrong. And so is the poster that thought your post was spot on above. It's not my opinion that you're wrong, it's my first hand experience that you're wrong.

 

In the end the point was that western RPGs have been, in the past, and still are, in the present, played on a consumer and business level in the east, and that point is very true. I think you'd be surprised. I had to grow up overseas, in Japan especially, and, if you've seen any of my posts on the forum I've played plenty of old to new western RPGs . . . why is this important? Because I was able to buy those games, before the internet, before anything, there, right there, in Japan and I wasn't the only one buying them.

[evdk]

Japanese game developers are of course going to play Western games, but that doesn't mean that they're successful to normal consumers. I'm sure Western developers are more likely to have Japanese imports.

 

Then you simply do not know the truth of it, as several of the western games I mentioned, and many more, are in fact succesful amongst the normal consumers. That's why some of the games I mention exist at all.

 

More importantly Japan does not have a PC gaming market, Bethesda games were sold to them on consoles, and so was Wizardry. Due to differences in popular hardware in the 1980's PC gaming never got traction in Japan.

 

If that's what you think then you're horribly unaware of the eastern PC gaming markets that exist heavily, you sound like every other person I've ever talked to about this subject, with only a minority being the exception. I gave examples, a few, because listing every last one would be a pain, and you act like the ones I gave are the only ones in all existence and proclaim some of the games given as examples to be 'shallow' and the only reason they're a success and so on and so forth it's like I've had this conversation before with clones of you.

 

Their PC market is pretty big actually, but, it also doesn't come over here a lot. Even amongst their console releases, given what knowledge you've shown so far, I think you'd be surprised at the amount they don't bring over here at all. As for Wizardry it was delivered to the east in more than one form, and, was a perfect example because not only is it a Western franchise that became popular in the east . . . but it's also a western franchise that the east adopted when it faltered, they kept it alive and are still making Wizardry games to this day. The only example? Not by a long shot but a well documented example certainly.

 

I'm sorry, but you're simply wrong. And so is the poster that thought your post was spot on above. It's not my opinion that you're wrong, it's my first hand experience that you're wrong.

 

In the end the point was that western RPGs have been, in the past, and still are, in the present, played on a consumer and business level in the east, and that point is very true. I think you'd be surprised. I had to grow up overseas, in Japan especially, and, if you've seen any of my posts on the forum I've played plenty of old to new western RPGs . . . why is this important? Because I was able to buy those games, before the internet, before anything, there, right there, in Japan and I wasn't the only one buying them.

Then surprise us and name some titles FFS. The only Japanese PC games I know are Touhou - your titles are not doujinshi as well by any chance, are they?

[Kaldurenik]

What about US ?

True, US would benefit from an English translation.

Sorry i though we needed more advertising to get going in US...

 

We will see what happens when paypal open.

[Umberlin]

Then surprise us and name some titles FFS. The only Japanese PC games I know are Touhou - your titles are not doujinshi as well by any chance, are they?

 

Western inspired games in the East run outside of the PC, mind you, just look at Etrian Odyssey, Dragon's Dogma as well as Dark Souls and Demon's Souls.

 

As for the PC titles, Japanese PC titles run through a lot of genres, certainly, and some of them definitly seedier than others. However examples of eastern games on the PC are, again, too many to list all of, and, again, I can't help but think people will act like because they're the examples I give they're the only ones out there. They're not. There are hundreds. Sangokushi XII, Monster Hunter Frontier Online, Power DoLLS 5, Ys : The Oath in Felghana, Ys: Origin, Front Mission Evolved, Grandia II, Final Fantasy VII, Sudeki and far, far more are all available on the PC. I'm sure someone can nit pick and find ways they 'don't count' and so on but oh well, just one digital store has a list of over a thousand games . . . if someone wants to track down every last digital and physical store in the East and find a problem with every last game . . . be my guest.

 

But let's go further than that and talk about the Japanese digitial distribution stores out there were you can find all sorts of western games from American Mcgee's Alice to Morrowind and the other Elder Scrolls games to silly western airplane simulations. Think of a genre and it's likely represented, especially western styled RPGs, again you find no lack of many genres of game from various countries outside of Japan provided.

 

-

 

Why exactly do I have to provide yet more examples though? This isn't some well kept secret. You want me to list some? Why? There are thousands of games out there, provided you know the language. Heck, a few of them actually make it over here every now and then in english (I'm talking Japanese PC games) but it's a rarity. I don't understand why I have to prove it, like it's a mystery, when there is no mystery, heck, they aren't even hiding.

Edited October 1, 2012 by Umberlin

[AwesomeOcelot]

Final Fantasy VII was ported to the PC for the Western market, and that's probably true of many of the other games, including some that you listed like the Ys games. You no doubt already know this.

 

I shouldn't need to tell you Bethesda games are shallow and very unlike other Western RPGs, the predecessors of Project Eternity, because everybody here already knows that's the case if they've played Oblivion, Fallout 3, or Skyrim, also they were all made for consoles and then ported to PC.

 

Japanese digital distribution stores don't mean anything, back in the early 2000's there were sites that I used to buy from that were centred around Japanese imports of games not available in Europe or the United States.

 

If you think the PC market is big in Japan, perhaps you'd care to provide some sales numbers to back that up? No you would not care to do that. For instance, VGChartz has the top 100 selling games in Europe and Japan in 2011. I don't think it includes Steam figures, but in the top 100 of Europe 11 are PC games (UK:8, France:8 , Germany:24). Guess how many are PC games in Japan's top 100. PC gaming might be close to a third in the UK and France, and close to half in Germany, what is PC gaming's share in Japan?

Edited October 1, 2012 by AwesomeOcelot

[BasaltineBadger]

It's not really fair to make him find good PC games on Japanese list. Even in European list most PC games are console ports or garbage. Nobody would probably buy a PC port of a console game in Japan.

[AwesomeOcelot]

It's not really fair to make him find good PC games on Japanese list. Even in European list most PC games are console ports or garbage. Nobody would probably buy a PC port of a console game in Japan.

 

I didn't ask him to find good PC games, I asked him to find any at all. People buy console ports, even ones ported badly, because while they're not as good as they could be they're still good games. None of the PC games on that list are garbage apart from COD:MW3, and it doesn't take that many sales to get on the bottom of it.

 

More importantly, there's 17 years of the top 100 chart of Japan with not a single PC game in it.

Edited October 2, 2012 by AwesomeOcelot

[Mamoulian War]

Have you ever thought, that maybe PC games in Japan are not listed in charts for the same reason, why there are not listed the number of sales on Steam on Western charts?

 

What a blasphemous thought, that someone would not disclose the actual sale numbers for one reason or another...

 

I do not know like others do, but I do actually consider more trustworthy the words of a guy who lives/lived in Japan... And I have played few online PC games with ****loads of Japanese gamers as well... One example for all is Darkfall, I would not hesitate to tell, there were more Japanese playing this game than Europeans...

 

The only reason, why EUs and NAs never meet Japanese PC gamers, is the reason, that like 99 percent of their PC multiplayer games have their own servers, because they do not like the attitude of typycal western gamer yelling gay insults and teabagging everyone, so they do hell of a good job, to keep that kind of idiots away from their servers and with them all other westerners...

Edited October 2, 2012 by Mamoulian War

[AwesomeOcelot]

Have you ever thought, that maybe PC games in Japan are not listed in charts for the same reason, why there are not listed the number of sales on Steam on Western charts?

 

Anecdotes aside, good question. The reason Steam sales aren't listed is because Valve won't release them. The top 100 chart in Japan goes back to 1994. Unless people in Japan were buying their games online for the whole of that time then they can't not be listed for the same reason. If you're suggesting Japanese game stores disclose their console sales but not their PC sales, unlike the rest of the world, I think you're going to have to provide a reason or evidence for this.

[Shadeheart]

I'm an Asian (Southeast Asia akchully) here, so I guess I have some insights to the Asian gaming behaviours. Most of them won't be appreciating the old school western rpg.

I mean you should understand just how different Japanese RPGs are when compared with ours.

The fact that I've been trying to explain the awesomeness of old school western RPG has been a failure for the last 10 years will just prove that creating a marketing strategy or even target the Asian market would be much fail.

 

Plus, we'd just pirate it anyway or play some ****ty free online RPGs.

The price conversion alone would make lots of first timers blanch at the thought of spending 20++ USD on a game concept that is so much different from their normal fare.

I play Steam and of all the other Asian friends I've known, only ONE has played Baldur's Gate and he is still hessitant to pledge.

 

I would say Russia & Europe to be more of a better option and we've had a slew of interesting games coming from the continental in the last decade.

If Asia must be chosen as a market, I'd have to say it's Singapore. Singapore's much more cosmopolitan than most of the other countries and has their fair share of cultural mingling so they'd be closest to be able to appreciate Western RPG. Althought still not viable enough to be profitable.

 

I wholeheartedly agree. Singapore would be a good place to get a good foothold into the "Asian" market. I currently live in India and having traveled around the globe extensively, Singapore just might be my favorite city/nation on the planet. The gaming scene is very vibrant there. India sadly, would be a poor place to sell anything that isn't a shooter or Dota clone.

[Mamoulian War]

Have you ever thought, that maybe PC games in Japan are not listed in charts for the same reason, why there are not listed the number of sales on Steam on Western charts?

 

Anecdotes aside, good question. The reason Steam sales aren't listed is because Valve won't release them. The top 100 chart in Japan goes back to 1994. Unless people in Japan were buying their games online for the whole of that time then they can't not be listed for the same reason. If you're suggesting Japanese game stores disclose their console sales but not their PC sales, unlike the rest of the world, I think you're going to have to provide a reason or evidence for this.

 

That is FACT for most of the European Markets, they do not state ANY boxed sales, nor online sales! We do not have in Europe nothing like NPD in the US. As far as I know, the only real numbers from EU you get from UK, and (i do not know that for sure, but I would guess, you are getting numbers from Germany and France)...

 

But I can yell around GIMME SUM EVDNCE KKTXBAI for your statement, that in Japan they are not selling PC games Online more than 20 years...

 

You know, most of the world is technologicaly 10+ years behind...

 

So where is your evidence for that?

[Mamoulian War]

I'm an Asian (Southeast Asia akchully) here, so I guess I have some insights to the Asian gaming behaviours. Most of them won't be appreciating the old school western rpg.

I mean you should understand just how different Japanese RPGs are when compared with ours.

The fact that I've been trying to explain the awesomeness of old school western RPG has been a failure for the last 10 years will just prove that creating a marketing strategy or even target the Asian market would be much fail.

 

Plus, we'd just pirate it anyway or play some ****ty free online RPGs.

The price conversion alone would make lots of first timers blanch at the thought of spending 20++ USD on a game concept that is so much different from their normal fare.

I play Steam and of all the other Asian friends I've known, only ONE has played Baldur's Gate and he is still hessitant to pledge.

 

I would say Russia & Europe to be more of a better option and we've had a slew of interesting games coming from the continental in the last decade.

If Asia must be chosen as a market, I'd have to say it's Singapore. Singapore's much more cosmopolitan than most of the other countries and has their fair share of cultural mingling so they'd be closest to be able to appreciate Western RPG. Althought still not viable enough to be profitable.

 

I wholeheartedly agree. Singapore would be a good place to get a good foothold into the "Asian" market. I currently live in India and having traveled around the globe extensively, Singapore just might be my favorite city/nation on the planet. The gaming scene is very vibrant there. India sadly, would be a poor place to sell anything that isn't a shooter or Dota clone.

 

Singapore was one of my favourite places to visit as well. The best connection of nature and city I have ever seen!