Crafting vs. Loot

[Gecimen]

While I'm not a fan of realism (explained below), I'm having a lot of fun with games with good crafting mechanics.

 

Yet in many games, crafting is usually secondary to whatever loot you can find throughout your adventures. This always keeps me from crafting new items since there's the chance of looting something better for the same slot. I think looting shouldn't be a cheap alternative to crafting or vice versa.

 

So I've got this idea to merge looting and crafting. Many players are already against monsters and ghosts dropping arms and armour pieces. So let such creatures drop rare crafting items such as a magical leather, a rare gemstone, a monster blood or an essence of ghost. Such rare items can be used to craft different unique items such as vampire blood -> an item with life drain ability. Make items for some slots exclusive for crafting, such as helms, gloves etc, while others such as necklaces and rings are exclusively looted and can not be crafted by us.

 

Nerdboners criticism gave me a whole new idea about recipes:

 

Recipes are not found written on paper out in the wild, but rather we find broken pieces of legendary arms and armor from treasures or monsters, and we repair/recraft them with required materials.

Edited September 25, 2012 by Gecimen

[Amentep]

I really hope crafting is really thought about and worked out in an interesting fashion. My experience in games is that usually it either takes so long to gather the materials to craft that what you can craft is useless (like you say) or you craft something that is good for now and 2 minutes later whack a kobold who has a better sword than you meaning you wasted your crafting material (and gold, dependent on the system).

 

So really crafting and looting are interelated and need to be thought of together, I agree.

 

I think the problem with the suggestion is it seems to rail the player into needing crafting as a skill (since it seems there are many things that only a crafter can create). Or do I misunderstand?

Edited September 25, 2012 by Amentep

[NerdBoner]

i don't really like crafting...the items feel like generic loot. Now if we could make one or two really personalized items, back story and all, that would kick ass.

 

but the whole "insert fire ruby in socket get fire sword" thing is just something that yawns me to death.

[Gecimen]

i don't really like crafting...the items feel like generic loot. Now if we could make one or two really personalized items, back story and all, that would kick ass.

 

but the whole "insert fire ruby in socket get fire sword" thing is just something that yawns me to death.

 

This gives me a whole new idea. Updating OP.

[Muzrub333]

I love crafting, as long as there is some complexity to the crafting system, and like the OP said, it makes sense to do so.

 

The problem is, that loot always seems to trump crafted goods, or the whole system is so shallow, and unengaging, that there is no reason to do it.

 

Indepth, engaging, useful crafting system = money well spent. On the other hand, I'd rather see no crafting at all, than something just tossed into the game half-assed to fill an empthy niche.

[Bhazor]

Have to agree with nerdboner.

 

Terrairia and the various Minecraft clones are ruined for me because of just how generic everything you make is. I want items with lore behind them and long quest lines in order to find/activate them.

 

I certainly don't want any Diablolike socketing.

 

That said something like Witcher's recipe system could be pretty cool. Having to browse through shops for recipes felt surprisingly good it's just the dull grind of finding the items. If there were hidden components and recipies which you could take to a craftsman who would build it for you at a set price then that would be pretty cool. Actually similar to the BG2 system of brining ancient artifacts to the Dwarf on the docks who would make super weapons from them. Thats crafting I like as the busy work is removed and you end up with something unique.

Edited September 25, 2012 by Bhazor

[Jarmo]

NWN2 and Mask of the Betrayer both had tremendously powerful crafting system,

completely dwarfing all other magic items in game. So did KotOR 2 actually.

 

The thing is, to me it seems being able to craft good powerful items suggests

a current high magic society. The kind where "masters of old" weren't back then, but now.

 

And I actually would like to see that implemented for once, a world were now is the glorious time.

You wouldn't be able to find old awesomely powerful items, because they couldn't make them

as well in the olden days as they can now.

 

But... what kind of world will Eternity be set in? Much depends on that.

If the glory days are past, buried in forgotten temples, it makes sense you find the most powerful

stuff buried in old temples, or from the corpse of your opponent who looted the temple.

[GhostofAnakin]

My experience in games is that usually it either takes so long to gather the materials to craft that what you can craft is useless (like you say) or you craft something that is good for now and 2 minutes later whack a kobold who has a better sword than you meaning you wasted your crafting material (and gold, dependent on the system).

 

This is exactly why I tend to just ignore the crafting part of any RPG, for the most part.

 

Most times, in order to make decent weapons you either need a million of something, or you need something so obscure that it takes you forever to find it. All that hassle and the weapon you craft is available at a local merchant for X number of gold instead. So it renders crafting irrelevant since anything I can craft, I can just buy, and without the hassle of having to run all over the world trying to find that one rare item.

 

And secondly, if by chance I do find that one rare item and craft my weapon, as you said, the weapon becomes obsolete so quickly when after leveling up a couple of times, you find a weapon that surpasses the crafted item quite easily. Once again the crafted weapon is made obsolete, and once again it feels like I went through all that hassle of finding rare ingredients (or grinding for common ones, but in the dozens) for nothing.

 

So especially when crafting involves a rare item, please make that item actually strong enough to use for the majority of the game.

[TrashMan]

You're an adventurer...not an weaponsmith.

 

Crafting really good items should be left to those who dedicated their entire life to mastering those skills, not some adventurer who spends most of his time clearing out dungeons.

 

NO THANKS.

[eimatshya]

With very few exceptions, I've never been into crafting in games. As such, I would be somewhat annoying if I had to go through a complex crafting process to have any sort of gear (unless the game isn't gear-centric, but that seems unlikely given its genre and inspirations).

 

If there was the option to take the pieces of ancient magic artifacts to NPC crafters to have them reforged, rather than having to do it yourself, I would be OK with that. But I would rather not have to craft every piece of equipment I use myself (unless crafting was extremely simple, but that would probably make it seem like a gimmick to waste time, rather than a way to deepen the game). I find looting and sorting through my inventory to be tedious enough; I don't really need more boring stuff to do.

Edited September 25, 2012 by eimatshya

[alphyna]

i don't really like crafting...the items feel like generic loot. Now if we could make one or two really personalized items, back story and all, that would kick ass.

 

but the whole "insert fire ruby in socket get fire sword" thing is just something that yawns me to death.

Isn't it the point? With crafting you can potentially turn generic loot into something worthy.

[alphyna]

I love crafting.

I makes collecting mundane items into something potentially useful.

Also, the possibilities are endless!

[Rabain]

The problem is that most games tend to never get it right. Either the items crafted are too strong and are either too easy or too hard to craft or they are too weak and not worth crafting.

 

There are a lot of people who don't consider going out and searching for 20 parts to craft X Sword of Killing a big deal while there are many others who look at the requirements and write off crafting altogether and call it bad.

 

Finding a decent balance is hard.

[NerdBoner]

hahaha you guys remember in NWN how you could craft some crazy **** like +10 weapons? oh god, those were the days!

[Spess Merhenn]

The only crafting this should have is alchemy to make your own potions. Anything else is a waste of time.

[Karranthain]

I liked crafting in Arcanum, findind new recipes was fun. It was pretty overpowered though

[Hugo Rune]

I don't want a crafting system for magic items in this game. Crafting consumables is fine. Beeing able to craft your own potions, poisions, traps and so on is fun and I would even like to see a whole class based around this (maybe). I also like crafting my own weapons and armor, decking my character out in customized gear suited exactly to his/her needs and I always spend lots of time with the crafting system in games that offer it. But in this game, it seems to me, what they are going for (and what I want them to go for) is for magic items to be be special and mysterious with backstories and origins lost in time and such. It takes a lot away from the mystery if ther's a system in place that explains how everything was made and let's you do it yourself.

 

"You've just found Verring, the Flaming Tooth, the sword that was forged at the dawn of time by the legendary fire giant smith Gugnir in his forge deep in the crater of Mount Sarrush and was later stolen from him by the legendary hero Whatshisname..." - "Oh yeah, it's a flaming longsword +3, I could make it at home at my workbench by affixing one of those soulgem thingies on a regular longsword, casting fireball at it and paying a certain amount of money for unspecified magical reagents!"

 

Basically, I want magical items to be rare and their origin to stay mysterious and largely unexplained, involving gods, legendary creatures, heros, mages, dying curses, undying love, that sort of thing. If there's a skill "craft magic items" that everybody can learn and simple recepies to follow, there's no reason why there isn't a whole magic items industry and why they aren't common everyday objects that people use like we use technology. There's nothing wrong with that sort of setting, imo, but I don't think that's what PE is supposed to be like.

 

It would be cool though if there was a one time chance in the game to forge a powerful personalized magical item that could itself become one of those few legendary artefacts going around in ages to come. That could even reinforce the mysterious nature of magical items, if done right.

[Gecimen]

Yeah I'm trying to tell the same, crafting shouldn't cross with loot.

[Humanoid]

As long as they omit the mundane elements: both products and components, I won't complain overmuch. Found a shard of a legendary weapon that you want to turn into a sword? Great, but don't make me have to collect leather to make the grip. Broadly speaking it'd be a matter of handwaving all the stuff a stereotypical town smith would have, you just provide the one, or few, special parts to get it made. Nothing groundbreaking, it's really just BG2's system really, e.g. assembling that elemental flail.

 

The key here is that there's no balancing of "dropped" loot vs crafted gear: they are one and the same.

[Darkpriest]

To be honest I like the idea of crafted items, but only to a medium range of power...

 

If you want to get item of artifact or legendary level, which in many cases exist like one in the world (gods' craft), you should go out and find them...

 

I do not want to see crafted items being a complete substitute for "collected" items.

 

They should have like 1-2 properties, maybe 3 if it is some super extra master craft with unique recipe (where the said recipe is consumed). Legendary and artifact level loot should be unique in power and probably posses abilities not found on any lower tier items and self made crafts.

 

TLDR. No self made craft should rival legendary artifacts

[Moonlight Butterfly]

I like the idea of finding pieces of legendary Items and reforging them. That would be cool. Other crafting feels a bit grindy to me and then there bits of stuff everywhere and it's annoying.

[Hiro Protagonist II]

Do it like BG2.

[Darkpriest]

I like the idea of finding pieces of legendary Items and reforging them. That would be cool. Other crafting feels a bit grindy to me and then there bits of stuff everywhere and it's annoying.

 

Well this is also a good idea, but I really do not want to see mass crafting of items for all my party members with items that can rival ultra rare legendary items... Medium power of the craft should be pinnacle... If you want to get something extra good, go and explore the world for pieces of legendary artifacts to be reforged, or for the whole artifacts.

[Valorian]

In my opinion, quality loot should be more powerful than weapons/armor crafted by the player.

[Shadenuat]

Recipes are not found written on paper out in the wild, but rather we find broken pieces of legendary arms and armor from treasures or monsters, and we repair/recraft them with required materials.

 

I like that idea. For me, ideal would be if only your party warrior or knight with repair skill could merge, as an example, some magic sword back, and only your party wizard could awaken the enchantment in it after. If player's party worked together to achieve that special, and maybe most powerful item in game, it would become personal, like "Hey, I(we) did it!", not "I just got these parts to NPC and now have best weapon in game".