Plin Posted April 28, 2004 Posted April 28, 2004 ooohh, someone can't take a little open-mindedness can he? Uh, you! Most people are very sure this is for KOTR2, it doesn't take a genius to figure it out. OMG ITS NOSTERDAMUS!!!!! Dude, you're not bringing anything constructive to the discussion. (EDITED) well, it doesn't matter, I'm done. take it easy
Spook Posted April 28, 2004 Posted April 28, 2004 Plin is obviously trolling, so how about we just ignore him and keep up the discussion? Just a suggestion though. If Plin start to discuss instead of insulting paople we could start commenting on his ideas, whatever they may be.
leombruno Posted April 28, 2004 Posted April 28, 2004 Don't force me to play a jedi... I don't mean to give offense here but it seems like fundamental design decisions have already been made, that's the bedrock of the project a story has been written for a jedi character. This is like some of the bad criticism that some people get for making class specific modules for NWN, "Yeah but I don't like that it forces you to play a paladin" !??? The gentleman wrote a module for a paladin, sheesh, if someone can't see the forest for the trees... The module may be great and more reactive to the player and a better story and rp experience than one that acknowledges your PC is a dwarf, but certain people would never know. Races I'm not sure I agree with either, I would rather they focus on the game respecting your character developement on more than the one axis of behavior instead of having people acknowledge 15 different possible avatar selections. I think races are usually a waste and hurt more than they help. I agree with the person though who said the whole jedi thing is getting 'played out' other than that though Star Wars has just about nothing going on, and is probably one of the worst inspirations to base a RPG on.
Judge Hades Posted April 28, 2004 Posted April 28, 2004 I will bitch about being forced to play a character I do not want to play. I do not want to play a Force user whatsoever. I also would like to be able to have some choice over what race my character is. This is supposed to be a freaking role playing game or what? If Obsidian wants to make an action game in the Star Wars universe more power to them, but a role playing game is about choice and if I am forced to play a character that removes the role playing aspects of the game. This was a major fault in SWKOTOR and Planescape: Torment. Games are supposed to get better over time to show that the designers are actually learning to be better at their craft. If we are forced to play a single character type then CRPGs are taking a major step backwards and I want nothing of that.
Plin Posted April 28, 2004 Posted April 28, 2004 Don't force me to play a jedi... I don't mean to give offense here but it seems like fundamental design decisions have already been made, that's the bedrock of the project a story has been written for a jedi character. This is like some of the bad criticism that some people get for making class specific modules for NWN, "Yeah but I don't like that it forces you to play a paladin" !??? The gentleman wrote a module for a paladin, sheesh, if someone can't see the forest for the trees... The module may be great and more reactive to the player and a better story and rp experience than one that acknowledges your PC is a dwarf, but certain people would never know. Races I'm not sure I agree with either, I would rather they focus on the game respecting your character developement on more than the one axis of behavior instead of having people acknowledge 15 different possible avatar selections. I think races are usually a waste and hurt more than they help. I agree with the person though who said the whole jedi thing is getting 'played out' other than that though Star Wars has just about nothing going on, and is probably one of the worst inspirations to base a RPG on. heh, that was my whole point, I'm just didn't say it as nice as you did.
Judge Hades Posted April 28, 2004 Posted April 28, 2004 The difference between a NWN module and KotOR 2 is that you don't have to pay for the NWN module.
Plin Posted April 28, 2004 Posted April 28, 2004 The difference between a NWN module and KotOR 2 is that you don't have to pay for the NWN module. That's quite the observation.
Judge Hades Posted April 28, 2004 Posted April 28, 2004 If the developers and publishers of KotOR 2 wants me to spend the $50 to $60 for the game they better give me real and substantial character choices, in both story and character development. If not, I will spend my money on something else. If I want amateurish CRPGing I will just play NWN modules.
AlanC9 Posted April 28, 2004 Posted April 28, 2004 Anyone know if there were ever any complaints from players not wanting to become a Jedi again in Jedi Outcast? I don't recall any, but I also don't see why the RPG/FPS distinction would matter either.
leombruno Posted April 28, 2004 Posted April 28, 2004 The game giving casual lip service to 64 different one dimensional class/race combos might keep you busy but that doesn't mean it's going to be much of an involving roleplaying game... I would rather have the game allow and respond to more actual character types than class race combos. Will I be able to be a idealistic but sort of weak willed jedi who slowly falls through repeated minor character failings into a cowardly little conniver, and play a domineering ego maniac feared by friend and foe alike, will long time companions treat the two any different? Or will it be: >15 darkside points you're just not cool anymore. Will the CNPCs have any value judgement on major events or will it be flirt, flirt, flirt, then secks them up for conversations? Can they form relationships between each other based on what each thinks of what is going on with your influence as a factor?
Judge Hades Posted April 28, 2004 Posted April 28, 2004 Thing is there is quite a difference between an action game and a CRPG. In a CRPG I want to make my character as I see fit. In an action oriented game, I am mostly there for the thumping and not really caring what I use to thump with. A CRPG is different and I have different expectations and wants, and one of those is to have the ability to make and play MY character and not the developers.
Morgoth Posted April 28, 2004 Posted April 28, 2004 Face it Doomy, there will never be a CRPG that will fit your expectations, and you know the reasons... Devs are trying to innovate by making non-genre-typically games (e.g. merging game genres together -- see Bioware with JE), and although a typically CRPG allows you to chose your class and abilities from the beginning, it doesn't mean that Sith Lords will be a bad CRPG because you can only play a Jedi... Rain makes everything better.
Judge Hades Posted April 28, 2004 Posted April 28, 2004 Yes it does. In NWN I am able to play my rogue and advance him as I wish. In Fallout I could make a diplomat/talker and not get into any major combat if I don't want to. In Arcanum I could make a combatant necromancer and raise the dead to take out my enemies. I want to play MY character. Games like Gothic 2, Jade Empire, Divine Divinity, and SWKOTOR are reasons why I am getting out of computer gaming. If I want to play the developer's character I will play an action game and not a CRPG.
Morgoth Posted April 28, 2004 Posted April 28, 2004 Yes it does. In NWN I am able to play my rogue and advance him as I wish. In Fallout I could make a diplomat/talker and not get into any major combat if I don't want to. In Arcanum I could make a combatant necromancer and raise the dead to take out my enemies. I want to play MY character. Games like Gothic 2, Jade Empire, Divine Divinity, and SWKOTOR are reasons why I am getting out of computer gaming. If I want to play the developer's character I will play an action game and not a CRPG. Well, you have your reasons, and if it's really that bad, then it's probably really better you leave the computer gaming area.... because I'm pretty sure there will be a huge bunch of CRPGs in the future that are "dumbed down" in your eyes, or whatever... Anyway, I felt KOTOR wasn't that kind of game that really needed this heavy customization of your character, it was more a story/char-driven game and pretty linear... I'm actually used to be playing those Bio games... Of course that doesn't mean you can't catch me for a good old school game like Fallout (yeah, beat it yesterday for the third time), but those games have no mass market appeal bla bla.... It's a question of money, so don't expect to see a game for adults in the future anymore. Regarding Gothic 2: Now you're really starting to hurt my feelings! :angry: I really liked it (and disliked it for some reasons), but again, it's the whole picture that made the game very immersive, and that without prestige classes and so forth... Rain makes everything better.
Judge Hades Posted April 28, 2004 Posted April 28, 2004 I don't see games as being dumbed down or not. I just want to play a good CRPG that allows me to play my character instead of someone elses. Even in PnP I play my character and pass off any premades.
Morgoth Posted April 28, 2004 Posted April 28, 2004 I don't see games as being dumbed down or not. I just want to play a good CRPG that allows me to play my character instead of someone elses. Even in PnP I play my character and pass off any premades. Hopyfully your desire will fulfil one day, but don't expect to play something different than a good or an evil Jedi in a Star Wars game. Rain makes everything better.
Judge Hades Posted April 28, 2004 Posted April 28, 2004 In past games like Fallout, NWN, BG, IWD, Arcanum, ToEE, Lionheart, and etc could do it why can't future games? Are developers losing the ability to allow us to play our own characters or is Obsidian and other developers are just getting lazy? Which is it? Hopefully MCA or some other Obsidian bugger can answer that. Losing the skill to make good CRPGs or just getting lazy.
Gorth Posted April 28, 2004 Posted April 28, 2004 Not getting evicted from your office space could also be a consideration “He who joyfully marches to music in rank and file has already earned my contempt. He has been given a large brain by mistake, since for him the spinal cord would surely suffice.” - Albert Einstein
Judge Hades Posted April 28, 2004 Posted April 28, 2004 So you are saying that in order to make money they need to make bad hand me down games. If they keep doing that they can be assured that they won't be getting any money from me. Seriously, you would buy a game which claims to be a CRPG that has an predictable character driven story in which you have no choice in character creation? If that is the case I have some swampland in Arizona for sale if you are buying mood.
Diogo Ribeiro Posted April 28, 2004 Posted April 28, 2004 I don't see games as being dumbed down or not. I just want to play a good CRPG that allows me to play my character instead of someone elses. Even in PnP I play my character and pass off any premades. You know, playing a premade character isn't always bad. Its not so much the problem with playing a premade character per se; rather, the problem happens when the premade we're given isn't interesting. The Nameless One was an interesting character to play, placed in a situation which was also interesting; and you could not play that character otherwise. Playing a Jedi however, is usually something we've all done one way or the other (and the character type is something that, even if people haven't played it, they're largely acquainted with it), but if the story as well as the character are worth it, i'm willing to give it a go.
Judge Hades Posted April 28, 2004 Posted April 28, 2004 Sorry, I am not. I play my characters and no one elses.
Morgoth Posted April 28, 2004 Posted April 28, 2004 Loosing skills? Lazy? Neither nor. It's probably just a design decision. :D No seriously, in the case of The Sith Lords playing as e.g. non human or playing completely as a non-Jedi (people would cry: where are the lightsabers? What feats for non-Jedi? What replacements for the force powers?) would incorporate nasty difficulties... and that not just things like "no romance between a Rodian guy and The new hot lady in The Sith Lords), also things that would just be illogically storywise. Rain makes everything better.
Diogo Ribeiro Posted April 28, 2004 Posted April 28, 2004 Sorry, I am not. Your loss. I assume you'll unfortunately keep on repeating yourself instead of forgetting the matter, then? A shame, that.
Gorth Posted April 28, 2004 Posted April 28, 2004 Seriously, you would buy a game which claims to be a CRPG that has an predictable character driven story in which you have no choice in character creation? If that is the case I have some swampland in Arizona for sale if you are buying mood. How much ? “He who joyfully marches to music in rank and file has already earned my contempt. He has been given a large brain by mistake, since for him the spinal cord would surely suffice.” - Albert Einstein
Drakron Posted April 28, 2004 Posted April 28, 2004 I would rather have the game allow and respond to more actual character types than class race combos. That is, unfortunatly, the developers problem. Class sould never be "the" character, its simply the character "skills" but for some stupid reason that is beyond me almost all CRPGs that have classes fallen into that stupidity. Best way to solve was having a "background" choice were we selected what the character job as and it being used. Race is not as a big problem but sould be adressed, if I am playing a Twi
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