Gods in Eternity

[DreamingVoid]

Could Gods interrupt/interfere with mechanics somehow?

 

For example, if you'd try to pickpocket an entire town, a God of Shadows could come in and wave "its" finger "No no". If Gods could fulfill such a use, it could both be fairly (and magically) reasonable for the developers to design "restrictions" that'd be content by itself. In Journey, there is such a mechanic, when you try to walk outside the screen you get pushed back by this invisible wind. Many gamers don't mind it, and is immersed by its feature. Kind of like that, but with Gods   

 

If you Rest all the time, you end up in the Realm of Dreams or something, transcending into spiritual form (and it wouldn't be a nice place to be at because, presumably, a God could've sent you into a trap).

 

Saving and reloading too much could send your character into a Doctor Who loop, meeting or seeing yourself as you moved before as a "Ghost", before you reloaded. It doesn't necessarily have to happen all the time, but Gods could function in "random encounter" scenarios and "restrictive" scenarios such as the Pickpocket scenario.

 

For example, imagine a God being annoying towards you, obstructing you on your path, so you decide to go after it and take it down. You take it down and take a breather, no more annoyance. Likewise, you could've thought you took down the God, but in fact you took down another one, manipulated by the first one to take out the other one.

 

What is it with you and punishing players?

[evilmiera]

I'd rather the worship of gods either be entirely ambiguous, with no clear result shown from worship, or entirely absent gods with clerical magic, possession/avatars and "miracles" just being another aspect of already existing spells that requires a more personal involvement from the user.

[Osvir]

 

Could Gods interrupt/interfere with mechanics somehow?

 

For example, if you'd try to pickpocket an entire town, a God of Shadows could come in and wave "its" finger "No no". If Gods could fulfill such a use, it could both be fairly (and magically) reasonable for the developers to design "restrictions" that'd be content by itself. In Journey, there is such a mechanic, when you try to walk outside the screen you get pushed back by this invisible wind. Many gamers don't mind it, and is immersed by its feature. Kind of like that, but with Gods   

 

If you Rest all the time, you end up in the Realm of Dreams or something, transcending into spiritual form (and it wouldn't be a nice place to be at because, presumably, a God could've sent you into a trap).

 

Saving and reloading too much could send your character into a Doctor Who loop, meeting or seeing yourself as you moved before as a "Ghost", before you reloaded. It doesn't necessarily have to happen all the time, but Gods could function in "random encounter" scenarios and "restrictive" scenarios such as the Pickpocket scenario.

 

For example, imagine a God being annoying towards you, obstructing you on your path, so you decide to go after it and take it down. You take it down and take a breather, no more annoyance. Likewise, you could've thought you took down the God, but in fact you took down another one, manipulated by the first one to take out the other one.

 

What is it with you and punishing players?

 

Lol, no, not punishing players. Content and consequence.

 

Rob a city blind, possible yes, but shouldn't the townsfolk at least raise an eyebrow? City Officials reacting? Ciphers or Wizards sent out to investigate? (To find you!) Finally, a God of Greed. Sounds like a Quest tree to me than a punishment

 

Similarly, you save a lot and you reload a lot. But one time you reload, everything looks the same but a shadow of yourself walking in front of you is seen, and you realize you're stuck in a trap! Sounds like Content to me.

 

Resting a lot, pop, you're in Dreamland (As if!). Nightmare Souls haunting you and you have to get out: Content.

 

Perhaps Gods are reflections of your actions, and you manifest different Gods depending on your actions (looting an entire town = manifests the God of Greed). Slaying every single enemy = manifests the God of War. Non-lethal = God of Shadows etc. etc.

[Luridis]

Lol, no, not punishing players. Content and consequence.

 

Rob a city blind, possible yes, but shouldn't the townsfolk at least raise an eyebrow? City Officials reacting? Ciphers or Wizards sent out to investigate? (To find you!) Finally, a God of Greed. Sounds like a Quest tree to me than a punishment

There can already be consequences for those sorts of things and they indeed exist in multiple games already. i.e. get caught picking pockets or locks and the guards haul you in. Sometimes assassins are sent in some cases. Resting too much can bring random encounters in some games.

 

Why would a 'god' bother with something the town guard should be handling? After all, they tend to be arrogant and self-serving even when supposedly 'good' in nature. I mean, do you really want your character to be so important that entire pantheons are chasing at their heels just to see what they do next? Are they gods or paparazzi?

Edited January 21, 2013 by Luridis

[Osvir]

I want my character to be important enough that if I take something to the extreme, and P:E has Gods, it should warrant attention.

Likewise, the "Doctor Who" loop doesn't necessarily have to be "in mechanic on Saving+Reloading" I just thought it would fit best there as that is what you are physically doing yourself. Being teleported back and forth between time, not as a punishment, but as a challenge you get to figure out. Not "You are stuck here". Similarly, Resting all the time, entering a dream world. Can't really say that, that can fit anywhere but in Resting.

An interactive dream sequence, instead of "Gorion has the father talk" with you. I loved those cut-scenes, but it would be awesome to interact in some of them as well. Baldur's Gate 2 has even more, I've only seen pretty much the first one I think (Candlekeep is in ruins and Imoen is apathetic).

Being an "interesting" character in the world, as I suppose the main character will be, Gods would take notice if you single handed took yourself to the top (or with the help of some companion characters).

Another thing I am curious about:
Will a character be able to challenge Gods? Will a character be able to overcome the hellfire a God could be?

[NOK222]

 

Will a character be able to challenge Gods? Will a character be able to overcome the hellfire a God could be?

 

If they're just beings that have appropriated power and belief, then why not? The word "god" doesn't have to be an unstoppable thing. 

[Malevolent]

In a way, I would like it to be a blend of something like the Greek Gods and the Faerun/Forgotten Realms Gods.  One of the things that always fascinated me about the Greek Gods in particular was just how dynamic they were, and how actively involved in the mortal world.  The gods didn't offer salvation or good tidings for all.  They were more like mortals with unbelievable power, some were good, some were bad, but most were a mix of many traits.  They were capable of vanity, jealousy, wrath, and any number of things.  They interacted with each other like a large extended family.  Some of them got along perfectly well, some of them hated each other.

 

One of the things that I think works so well for a Grecian style pantheon in fantasy is the fact that the gods don't care that much.  Sure, you may have one or two sympathetic to your pleas, but them actually doing much?  Forget about it.  Worse still, often times when you gained the favor of one and actually received some form of blessing, one or many others would decide that you needed to be taken out as a way to get back at the god that favored you.  This would allow for a great tapestry of mythology to be woven into the world where the deities play off of each other sometimes at the expense of the mortal plane. 

 

But I would love to see these supremely flawed deities learn and evolve from prior mistakes rather than exist in a more static fashion like the Greeks. 

[rjshae]

The Greek pantheon is more compact than the Faerunian one, and has a better mix of deities with a smaller proportion of evil gods. The Faerunian pantheon contains several redundancies, and a number of deities that shouldn't really have a significant following. I suppose the difference can be explained in part by the large and more diverse geography of Faerun, but I do think the Faerunian pantheon could have been greatly improved.

[Osvir]

Just some quick-fire:

G+ = Major God
G- = Minor God

G+ God of Death
G- God of Night
G- God of Moon
G- God of Shadow

G+ God of Life -

G- God of Day
G- God of Sun
G- God of Light

G+ God of Season
G- God of Spring
G- God of Summer
G- God of Autumn
G- God of Winter

G+ God of Wind
G- God of North
G- God of West
G- God of East
G- God of South

G+ God of Earth
G- God of Harvest
G- God of Rebirth
G- God of Creation

G+ God of Water
G- God of Ocean
G- God of Island
G- God of Depth
G- God of Rain

G+ God of Fire
G- God of Passion
G- God of Destruction
G- God of Warmth

others
God of Heaven
God of Hell
God of Soul
Messenger God

[Rostere]

I detest the idea of a Greek-ish pantheon in PE with a passion. The Greek gods are SO mundane. In my mind, they are like a bad Seinfeld show with childish superheroes in togas. Gods should be much more mysterious.

 

I would want the approach to gods in PE to be as non- homogeneous as possible. I hate it when in a city there are three equally large temples, one for the "good" god, one for the "neutral" god and one for the "evil" god. I don't want such an artificial homogeneity in religion. All the gods should be entirely different in their characteristics and how they are worshipped. A religion could be/have...

• Monotheistic/Polytheistic (acknowledging the existence of several gods)/Polytheistic (allowing the worship of several gods)/Pantheistic
• Similar throughout civilization/ gods associated with cities (like in ancient Greece and Mesopotamia)
• A popular belief (exoteric - non- existent or non- influential priest class)/ a monastic order (esoteric - "common believers" do not exist or they have no true knowledge of the religion)
• Existed since the dawn of time/Appeared at a certain point/Disappeared at a certain point
• Prayer at any time/Prayers at certain special times/Communal prayer/Individual prayer
• A single place of worship (A single temple)/A single type of place for worship (beach, forest, desert, et.c.)/Multiple temples/No staffed temples (shrines only)/No particular place of worship
• Benevolent (you say a prayer to receive the blessing of your god)/ Malevolent (you sacrifice so that the god won't hurt you)
• Missionaries preaching their faith/No missionaries/No established way of converting/A secret society
• Theocratic (the religion rules/is the state)/Divine law (the laws are dictated by the religion)/Separated from the state
• Belief in an omnipotent god/Belief in a god or several gods with limited power/Belief in a god or several gods whose only power is immaterial (for example over the afterlife)
• Written tradition/Oral tradition
• One unified direction (Centralised)/Diverse beliefs (Decentralised)
• Focused on ritual/Focused on moral code
• Connected to certain sciences (astronomy, anatomy (see hepatomancy), mathematics (see Pythagoreans))/Connected to certain natural phenomena (the sea, the wind, fertility)/Connected to certain professions (soldiers and war, merchants and trade, artisans and artifice)
• A god or several gods with material presence (believed to inhabit a certain object or person)/A god or several gods without visible material presence
• Hostile/Tolerant
• Connected to a certain race/Not connected to any race

Having all the different faiths as mirror images of each other save for colour of the priest's robes and alignment leaves you without a feeling of exploration and true choice when dealing with the religions. Having initiation quest for the "evil" church in black robes be to kill good guy X and initiation quest for the "good" church in white robes be to kill evil dude Y is just unimaginative. Do you want to go to Burger King or McDonalds? If we encounter, say, three major religions in the game let them be fundamentally different, not just aesthetically different but functionally identical.

 

I also don't want everything about the religions to be explored and explained in the game. A strong advantage PE will have over the FR setting is that we won't already know everything about all the gods, and we won't know if all gods exist, or who (what?) they are. We won't have "portfolios", so the Aumaua might worship one god of the moon, while a human sect in a remote village worships another one - without us knowing if any if them really exist, and if they do, if they are the same deity.

[locomotron]

Or, to take the disturbing concept from the fantastic sci-fi novella Blindsight, a God might be fully sapient, but not self aware. A tremendously intelligent being that no less lacks any capacity for self reflection. A God that does not know that it exists.

Damn you for mentioning that concept, because now I can't look at a good pantheon now without that being included.

 

OT though; I'd love to see a rich and varied pantheon(or collection of gods, as I've just read that pantheons are supposed to be families, I guess that could be through some bigger "creator god"), with some gods interacting with mortals and other gods, while others are simply a force of nature, or the result of a common prayer.

Edited January 29, 2013 by locomotron

[Domigorgon]

I get the feeling that the most recent update throws many of these good ideas out of the window. Project: Eternity will basically have a D&D-like pantheon, sans alignments. So much for that.

[rjshae]

^^^^ I kind of think that's what most people signed on for: an IE-like experience in a new setting. But the updates just cover the gaming area, so that doesn't rule out other possibilities for elsewhere.

[Lephys]

Both for the sake of humor AND the sake of seriousness, I want to see astonished/disbelieving characters say things like "Dear GODS...!", and extremely desperate/thankful people say things like "You are a gods-send!"

[Domigorgon]

"Ye gods!"

"Oh goddess..."

"Thank the Powers!"

 

Are these the phrases you are looking for?

[IndiraLightfoot]

And a NWN2 classic: Neeshka's "Hells, hells..." That was her grudging when you pressed her too hard as a picklock thrall. Not exactly my favourite NPC, too teeny for me, but she certainly had her moments. 

[Anaeme]

Lord Ao