Obsidain why you lie to us?

[oldmanpaco]

I canceled my pledge after reading the stretch goals. I'm not normally a hater (as the kids say) but the stink of bioware is all over this project.

 

1) Only 5 companions. That means you need to take them all with you if you have a 6 person party. Worked in PS:T but that was a RPG unlike any other.

2) Only 5 classes. Unless there are 'kits' like BG this limits the diversity of the party and NPCs. Best option is like Diablo with skill paths to differentiate the players. Oh joy.

3) They are not even man enough to call it a stronghold. They call it a house. Maybe we can have tea parties there.

4) They say companions can stay relax at said house. This implies a crappy 'camp' mechanic, small party sizes and ****ty everyone gets XP even if they are not in the active party.

5) The whole soul crap is gong to be incredible forced. Without knowing anything about it besides it having something to do with the magic system I can tell it's going to be a construct shoved down our thoats.

6) The magic system is going to be stupid. See number 5.

 

Right now I'm afraid they think the IE games just means isometric perceptive. Jesus have they even confirmed it will have painted 2D background? I really hope I'm wrong but right now this is not the BG/IWD/PS:T we were promised.

 

 

And if anyone says that I am just guessing right now you are correct. I would loooooove for Obsidian to actually tell us what they are planning. Am I completely wrong? Am I right? It's not like it's some sort of state secret. The W2 Kickstarter was about 100% better at communicating what they were trying to build. Obsidian seems like they are playing those of us who want another IE experience.

[Eonwe]

Inflammatory title? Check

Making up random information with absolutely no basis? Check

Asking why we don't know everything about a game that was just announced and funded 24 hours ago? Check.

 

We got ourselves a bad topic here folks.

[Volourn]

"the stink of bioware is all over this project.

 

1) Only 5 companions. That means you need to take them all with you if you have a 6 person party. Worked in PS:T but that was a RPG unlike any other.

2) Only 5 classes. Unless there are 'kits' like BG this limits the diversity of the party and NPCs. Best option is like Diablo with skill paths to differentiate the players. Oh joy.

3) They are not even man enough to call it a stronghold. They call it a house. Maybe we can have tea parties there.

4) They say companions can stay relax at said house. This implies a crappy 'camp' mechanic, small party sizes and ****ty everyone gets XP even if they are not in the active party.

5) The whole soul crap is gong to be incredible forced. Without knowing anything about it besides it having something to do with the magic system I can tell it's going to be a construct shoved down our thoats.

6) The magic system is going to be stupid. See number 5."

 

What does BIO have to do with this? They've never done a kickstarter, and their last magic system for DA was actually pretty robust in spite of the lame mana crap.

[Troller]

"the stink of bioware is all over this project.

 

1) Only 5 companions. That means you need to take them all with you if you have a 6 person party. Worked in PS:T but that was a RPG unlike any other.

2) Only 5 classes. Unless there are 'kits' like BG this limits the diversity of the party and NPCs. Best option is like Diablo with skill paths to differentiate the players. Oh joy.

3) They are not even man enough to call it a stronghold. They call it a house. Maybe we can have tea parties there.

4) They say companions can stay relax at said house. This implies a crappy 'camp' mechanic, small party sizes and ****ty everyone gets XP even if they are not in the active party.

5) The whole soul crap is gong to be incredible forced. Without knowing anything about it besides it having something to do with the magic system I can tell it's going to be a construct shoved down our thoats.

6) The magic system is going to be stupid. See number 5."

 

What does BIO have to do with this? They've never done a kickstarter, and their last magic system for DA was actually pretty robust in spite of the lame mana crap.

because of all the stuff bioware pulled lately, that pissed off the fans, Dragon Age 2 for example, Mass Effect 3..

[Volourn]

DA2 and ME3 are two of BIO's better games. Certainly better than overrated stuff like BG1 or KOTOR.

[Longknife]

3) They are not even man enough to call it a stronghold. They call it a house. Maybe we can have tea parties there.

 

 

Those bastards.

I hope they burn in hell. BRB calling my lawyers about getting my money back for false advertising.

[oldmanpaco]

Inflammatory title? Check

Making up random information with absolutely no basis? Check

Asking why we don't know everything about a game that was just announced and funded 24 hours ago? Check.

 

We got ourselves a bad topic here folks.

Nothing in my post was made up. When i had an opinion I stated it. 5 companions. House for a camp. Souls used in the magic system. All that is confirmed and none of it bodes well.

 

 

I 100% want to be wrong. Maybe some information will come out that will prove me wrong. I hope so. But shouldn't that info be provided before we give them money?

[WDeranged]

Jesus god, I never realised until I read this topic, I just, I, I...PERFIDY!!!

[oldmanpaco]

3) They are not even man enough to call it a stronghold. They call it a house. Maybe we can have tea parties there.

 

 

Those bastards.

I hope they burn in hell. BRB calling my lawyers about getting my money back for false advertising.

See you get what I'm saying!

 

I had a house in Skyrim. I had a stronghold in BG2. Can you tell the difference?

[Gazoinks]

4) They say companions can stay relax at said house. This implies a crappy 'camp' mechanic, small party sizes and ****ty everyone gets XP even if they are not in the active party.

Who else likes when non-active party members get XP? It allows me to experiment with party make-up, instead of being stuck with the same guys throughout the game or being forced to tediously grind if I want to level an unused guy. Also, I have no idea where you're getting these conclusions from.

[The Sharmat]

I'm sorry your disappointed. A kickstarter pledge naturally presupposes a bit of faith in the project. Not sure why you pledged in the first place if you had so little of it, but whatever.

 

 

Looking at the stretch goals though, wouldn't you be more likely to have these grievances satisfied by keeping your pledge? Since we can get like 3 more companions if it hits a bunch of milestones. Which seems likely given there's 30 days left.

 

EDIT: Bioware is NOT Obsidian. This is kind of important and needs to be kept in mind.

Edited September 16, 2012 by The Sharmat

[LadySpace]

I canceled my pledge after reading the stretch goals. I'm not normally a hater (as the kids say) but the stink of bioware is all over this project.

 

Fantastic opener. Really likely to make people consider your points with an open mind.

 

1) Only 5 companions. That means you need to take them all with you if you have a 6 person party. Worked in PS:T but that was a RPG unlike any other.

2) Only 5 classes. Unless there are 'kits' like BG this limits the diversity of the party and NPCs. Best option is like Diablo with skill paths to differentiate the players. Oh joy.

 

You do realize that the presence of only five classes almost certainly ensures that the party size will, in fact, be smaller than 6, right? Now, admittedly, your later point makes it seem as though smaller parties are akin to somebody bending your soul over their knee and spanking you with a morningstar, but most of us will just take it as a game design choice. Plus, there are a boatload of ways to differentiate characters with the same classes that have nothing to do with Diablo-style skill trees. Diversity can be achieved even with only a small number of classes if those classes are either largely unrestrictive after character creation or extremely open to bizarre ability/skill/stat/item combinations and tactics.

 

3) They are not even man enough to call it a stronghold. They call it a house. Maybe we can have tea parties there.

 

Leaving aside the question of why you feel such a semantic distinction is so important, it's painfully obvious that they're calling it a house because they don't want to make it precisely identical to BG's stronghold and they don't want us to expect that same direct correspondence.

 

4) They say companions can stay relax at said house. This implies a crappy 'camp' mechanic, small party sizes and ****ty everyone gets XP even if they are not in the active party.

 

The first part - a small party size - seems to be a major issue for you. I'm not clear on why. The second doesn't seem to me like it's guaranteed at all.

 

5) The whole soul crap is gong to be incredible forced. Without knowing anything about it besides it having something to do with the magic system I can tell it's going to be a construct shoved down our thoats.

6) The magic system is going to be stupid. See number 5.

 

I don't have any more information than you do, but if nothing else I can look back on previous implementations of "soul"-related mechanics and atmospheric choices in games designed by these folks and tell you that, no, you're almost certainly incorrect.

[oldmanpaco]

 

What does BIO have to do with this? They've never done a kickstarter, and their last magic system for DA was actually pretty robust in spite of the lame mana crap.

 

I know Bio makes what they make and I'm not here to argue the pros and cons. But limited party size, group camps and convoluted magic (DA, ME, KoTR) are what they do now. And the DA magic system had about 40 spells. BG had about 300.

[Gazoinks]

I for one really like the sound of the soul mechanic. It's a nice way of tying higher themes into the gameplay via magic, as well as giving a decent explanation for what magic is ("It's magic!" Does not count).

Edited September 16, 2012 by Gazoinks

[Leferd]

This couldn't be Karzak could it?

 

...nah...

[Badmojo]

Only 5 companions and 5 classes? Not a deal breaker, but it IS dissapointing. I like choices, choices, and choices. I will also admit that I am hoping for something bigger than just a house/mansion.

[oldmanpaco]

EDIT: Bioware is NOT Obsidian. This is kind of important and needs to be kept in mind.

 

 

No but Bioware infunces all current RPGs. And not in a good way.

 

 

I canceled my pledge after reading the stretch goals. I'm not normally a hater (as the kids say) but the stink of bioware is all over this project.

 

Fantastic opener. Really likely to make people consider your points with an open mind.

 

 

What can I say I copied a post I made at the codex.

 

 

You do realize that the presence of only five classes almost certainly ensures that the party size will, in fact, be smaller than 6, right? Now, admittedly, your later point makes it seem as though smaller parties are akin to somebody bending your soul over their knee and spanking you with a morningstar, but most of us will just take it as a game design choice.

 

 

Then they were less than forthcoming about building on the legacy of the IE games weren't they?

 

 

Leaving aside the question of why you feel such a semantic distinction is so important, it's painfully obvious that they're calling it a house because they don't want to make it precisely identical to BG's stronghold and they don't want us to expect that same direct correspondence.

 

 

Your right it doesn't sound like BG. It sounds like Skyrim. Or Oblivian if you roll that way.

 

 

The first part - a small party size - seems to be a major issue for you. I'm not clear on why. The second doesn't seem to me like it's guaranteed at all.

 

 

The party size is an issue. The IE games had 6 members. The 6 member party was iconic in RPGs before the decline.

 

 

I don't have any more information than you do, but if nothing else I can look back on previous implementations of "soul"-related mechanics and atmospheric choices in games designed by these folks and tell you that, no, you're almost certainly incorrect.

 

 

I'll give you this one. I was just trying to stir the pot. But without them clarifying what (before they take our money) the soul mechanic will be I will have my doubts.

Remember the last great game they made was MotB almost 6 years ago and the lead writer on that one is gone.

[oldmanpaco]

4) They say companions can stay relax at said house. This implies a crappy 'camp' mechanic, small party sizes and ****ty everyone gets XP even if they are not in the active party.

Who else likes when non-active party members get XP? It allows me to experiment with party make-up, instead of being stuck with the same guys throughout the game or being forced to tediously grind if I want to level an unused guy. Also, I have no idea where you're getting these conclusions from.

 

 

Like I said the stink of Bioware. When you can only have 2-3 companions in your party this system is the comprise.

[GhostofAnakin]

It's your money, so I'm not going to criticize you for un-pledging (is that even a word, or did I just make it up?). But you're making a lot of assumptions in your post, considering we don't really know a heck of a lot about the project yet.

[Gazoinks]

4) They say companions can stay relax at said house. This implies a crappy 'camp' mechanic, small party sizes and ****ty everyone gets XP even if they are not in the active party.

Who else likes when non-active party members get XP? It allows me to experiment with party make-up, instead of being stuck with the same guys throughout the game or being forced to tediously grind if I want to level an unused guy. Also, I have no idea where you're getting these conclusions from.

 

 

Like I said the stink of Bioware. When you can only have 2-3 companions in your party this system is the comprise.

Actually, I was thinking of the way Freedom Force did it (inactive heroes got less XP, but still got some) but carry on. Clearly it's impossible to make a good RPG that isn't a clone of Baldur's Gate, so I bow to your superior knowledge.

[The Sharmat]

The party size is an issue. The IE games had 6 members. The 6 member party was iconic in RPGs before the decline.

 

5 Companions + 1 PC= 6 man party.

[Troller]

Well just think about, according to the way things are there will be 8 companions, not 5, keep in mind that they gotta add depth and stories and quests related to all of the companions, that most likely will have lots of hours in game, of dialogue and adventure.

[Moonlight Butterfly]

I count 8 companions if we get all the stretch goals. I don't mind having fewer companions if it means they will be very in depth story wise. 6 is fine for party size.

Edited September 16, 2012 by Moonlight Butterfly

[Rostere]

The only thing the OP has got right is that class- based character creation systems are limiting and boring.

[Wombat]

I guess I had more info as a semi-regular forum lurker - I noticed the writing team of Obsidian had been diminished (especially considering the soul concept, Ziets should be missed although it's ultimately about his life). It is not hard to guess the dialogues will be spread thin or the game will have smaller numbers of NPCs. And as I guessed, the answer seems to be the latter. Considering the number of companion NPCs in Torment, I know it doesn't kill the game. Also, we don't know how the system works at all. How much customization is possible for these "classes," do you know, for example? In any case, I'm a person who began to beleive a smaller team can be a good thing. So, others may have different opinions.

 

I wonder if this is a backfire example of the mystery marketing. It's true that they didn't tell much info but did they lie? I don't beleive I need to remind that you can pull back your money anytime before the deadline.