A suggestion for the romances you're considering (if any)

[Drowsy Emperor]

There is no way to do this right. A real romance is half intangible thing where the stuff that's left unsaid is as important as the spoken words, where gestures and looks play a huge role, where subjective and indescribable feelings dictate the flow or lack of it. Its so complex and evolving, that an interactive computer game version cannot be but mechanical and crude.

A non interactive romance is which the player is basically having a story told to them can be good, but what's the point of that in an RPG where choice is the ideal?

[Shades]

Eh, I don't like the 'X likes chocolate, give her chocolate for +1 influence/romance points'. It kinda turns NPCs into virtual pets.

 

That's the Dragon Age way, I'm certainly not talking about gifts. And you would want such a system hidden to discourage taking this option for that number of points and the like. Something like what I mentioned could simply be applied to the romance possibilities.

 

Think of it like this: Some people know/have an idea in their head that they like certain types of other people. Let's say the NPC is like this, so if the PC acts like the type the NPC likes then the more they act like that the more likely the NPC will try to initiate a romance. On the other hand if the PC does not act like that at all the NPC might be completely unwilling to start a romance, but if there were a few things here and there that the NPC liked they might be willing to give the PC a try if the PC tries to initiate something.

 

It would be a way for the NPCs to not have to immediately fall for the PC the moment they talk. And it wouldn't have to be blatant, rather than outright proposing a romance it could just be a matter of trying to flirt with the NPC (not the type of terrible thing that Dragon Age 2 calls flirting), if you're in the highest category they might flirt first and will respond well to such a thing, the lowest they'll reject your attempts to flirt with them (nicely or otherwise, depending on the NPCs own personality), the middle they'll be curious though it might take a bit of work. But I don't expect them to do something like this, it would probably have a lot of problems.

 

Anyway, I'd be happy with something like what they did in Planescape: Torment, and I liked Mask of the Betrayer too (though that had a points thing going on, but I liked the characters).

[Bill Gates' Son]

Planescape Torment had romances? News to me. Besides one NPC having a crush on the Nameless One, I don't remember any romances in that game.

Edited September 17, 2012 by Bill Gates' Son

[sgtpopper]

Different genre, and it's not interactive but:

 

Enslaved had some very nice scenes when it came to the ambivalent relationship between Monkey and Trip (well, at least in one instance that I can remember). So does The Walking Dead, and that one is 75% about dialogue interactions. So those could be good sources of inspiration.

 

About the "buying love with gifts"-thing:

If it is a game system (i.e. works for everyone and their gift preferences) it degrades characters. On the other hand, it makes more for an open-world feel and allows the player to experience his/her very own, unique story (the world vs. story thing, player-story vs. designer-story, some people prefer one or the other). Other people prefer to experience a well-written narrative and don't mind having their options reduced...it's a matter of taste and priorities, both have their appeal and downsides.

 

Personally, I think making somebody a gift could be nice if it's tied into the plot or is otherwise made significant (e.g. requiring to to learn or make use of some crafting skill and finding the proper ingredients. The PC makes an effort that is not about getting better gear/xp, but rather the reward is relationship options, a little dialogue, something along those lines). That's when a present makes sense, when it's not just a resource that is farmed/stumbled upon, but part of a plot decision (e.g. some unique item and you can choose to give it to companion A/B/C at one point in the game).

[Wintersong]

Sex and romance in computer games is just silly. If you want some sex and romance turn off your computer and go find some.

If you want some combat turn off your computer and go find some.

If you want some heroism turn off your computer and go find some.

If you want some friends turn off your computer and go find some.

If you want some loot turn off your computer and go find some.

Ad eternum.

 

I say yes to romances in the game. But only if many different conditions are meet, of course. Obviously, one of them is that I want them to be the best they can be and not some stupid thing like... well, the already mentioned examples.

 

Which are the roles of the companions in this game? Big party or small one? Can we develop different kind of relationships with them based in our in-game actions and conversations? Can we lose companions? (be it death in combat, betrayal due to not getting along, some kind of event triggered by the PC, etc)

 

If companions are unkillable and will stick to the group no matter what, you are limiting the possible kind of romances that you can have in the game (bye bye truly bad ending romances). On the other hand, why should I be limited to companions for my romances? If the scope of the game allows it, NPCs can be a good source of romance (I said "romance" and not "sex", and NPCs can be killed/kidnapped/brainwashed/zombified more easily than companions!). Companions with their more common presence can be considered as better candidates for developing romance/frienship/rivalry but I'd prefer to think that my character can actually socialize with more people than just my companions and the usual Questgiver NPC. Roleplaying game is not (just) combat, classes and level ups. Just saying. Not asking for diluting the game experience into some kind of Sims though. Keep that in mind if you are going to bash me, huh?

 

I don't want the content (of any kind) to be forced into the game. I don't want to be excluded just because (or because a dev doesn't like it) either. If it fits, it fits. Just do your best to try to make it the best it can be. Between other things, this means that I hate decissions like:

-"We must have a love interest for each sex". Why? If it only makes sense to have a single love interest and that the said love interest is only for female PCs, I see no problem with that! I can see how some would say that it's be unfair or unfun to be denied a game experience because of their sex selection in character creation but: 1) it seems to be fashion to call "unfun" anything that you don't like, 2) ROLEPLAYING game. It's like complaining that your fighter cannot cast spells like a wizard, heal like a cleric or sneak like a rogue. Choices with consequences are not unfun!!

-"We must have all kinds of sexual orientations". Must? Why should we? The setting should define such kind of things to start with. If the society in PE doesn't care who you romance as long as you do your duty of procreating with the other sex to create new generations, then the game should reflect that. If they are all prude heterosexuals, more of the same. As in "real life", exceptions do exist and have their consecuences if needed (and can actually be interesting stories, keeping your forbidden romance a secret). Altough I have no issues with adding different kinds of sexual orientations in the game (I'm not my character so he/she can romance anyone that I think that makes sense for his/her personality), I think that adding them just because is not good idea. Wasn't mentioned in the BioWare forums other "deviations" that should also be included in the name of equality?

-"There must be sex!" Riiiiiight.

 

Stuff like gifts in DAO were stupid. The intention was good but the system was not. Influence with my companions should directly depend on being with me during adventures (and my choices there), very reduced for those who stay at the tavern (player house funding pending) because they depend on listening about my exploits and have less interaction with me, and not against gifts/bribes as long as it's not DAO.

 

I'm sure I wanted to say some more things but I just had a random encounter with Block so I'll only add:

I don't want romances to exist just to detract from the overall game. If they do exist (one or many), I want them to exist to enhance the experience beyond the "Hulk smash!!!" that is the core of the usual cRPG. If they have a place in the game, I don't want a devs saying "We don't make them because we find them difficult". I want them to say "Hey, they are difficult but the only way to improve is practice so we are going to do our best" (I improved my english through practice so yeah! Still not perfect tough). All of that if the romances actually make sense in the context of the game and it doesn't impact negatively other more basic features.

Edited September 17, 2012 by Wintersong

[duskwind]

-"We must have all kinds of sexual orientations". Must? Why should we?

 

Why shouldn't we? It's negligible extra work to make a romance work irrespective of the PC's gender, and it does no harm. Might not be entirely realistic, but we're happy to accept all sorts of other unrealisms, like carrying around a dozen suits of full platemail in your backpack. If you chose to play a fighter, you know you're not going to be casting spells; when you pick a gender, you don't know how that's going to limit romance options (assuming you're not seeking out spoilers). You should have choices with consequences when you interact with companions, not have them ruled out in advance.

[Hoverdog]

Why shouldn't we?

Well, I don't know, maybe it effectively doubles the amount of work needed on an otherwise completely pointless secondary feature?

[The Sharmat]

On the other hand if the PC does not act like that at all the NPC might be completely unwilling to start a romance, but if there were a few things here and there that the NPC liked they might be willing to give the PC a try if the PC tries to initiate something.

I like this, with the caveat that behavior that an NPC views as positive for a potential significant other should not necessarily be what they'd find as positive behavior overall.You can like someone perfectly well without them being your "type" or what you're looking for in a mate.

[Wintersong]

Why shouldn't we? It's negligible extra work to make a romance work irrespective of the PC's gender, and it does no harm. Might not be entirely realistic, but we're happy to accept all sorts of other unrealisms, like carrying around a dozen suits of full platemail in your backpack. If you chose to play a fighter, you know you're not going to be casting spells; when you pick a gender, you don't know how that's going to limit romance options (assuming you're not seeking out spoilers). You should have choices with consequences when you interact with companions, not have them ruled out in advance.

The "harm" comes in taking away beliavility. Don't get me wrong, because I don't really care about the games features. Yep, I don't care. The only thing I care is that when the game is done and I play it, I have a good time and some fond memories about the experience (just keep the game an RPG, ok?). That doesn't mean that I'm not a bit tired of "marketing" determining stuff or that I won't bother sometimes to visit this forum.

 

If a companion happens to be gay, does that mean that he automatically should be made love interest for male PCs? Or can we allow him to be gay but have no interest whatsoever in the PC? Should we force him into being bi because we must balance our love interest companion options between males and females? The only sexuality that the player should determine is that of his/her character. There is certainly no consequence when you are guaranteed by marketing that no matter if you choose male/female and hete/homo/bi, you are bound to find love interest.

 

I know that Obsidian must create a game that players actually want to play and such but there should be limits to the things they concede to the players. That said, everything in the game should bow to the mighty story, which is the engine of the game, so if the story says "Oh" then it's "Oh".

 

Realism... I dislike when my characters can carry a bazillions diffferent heavy armors in the backpack (which happens not to be magical). There is a line between realism in a game and the fun factor, and that line is a big headache for game developers and us (the different types of players). Altough I prefer my games to be fun, I have the right to demand them to be "realistic" as much as it's possible within reason. In an RPG that becomes quite important to me. Having hyper realistic and mature conversations with my companions while I juggle some adamantium breastplates is not going to score very well in my list. Not that I want such a level of "realism" as to have to send the characters to the bathroom, the period once a month for the females and stuff like that. Mostly because I want a cRPG, not the Sims RPG.

 

As in any of my posts, just my opinion. Surely wrong in many things but still mine.

Edited September 17, 2012 by Wintersong

[Nines]

Romances is ok, just don't make it look like a Gay Saga (Dragon Age 2).

And when i played i ME2/3 i had a feeling, that Shepard is pimp, and Normandy is high-class space brothel.

[The Sharmat]

Playercharacter-sexual NPCs are pretty horrifying. It makes DA2 laughable.

[Shadenuat]

I'd suggest none, because for once I want to see some plots for characters and, particularly, women, which do not involve them into being love objects. I want companions to have some goals in the world aside from just being player's henchmen... if anything, something as subtle and lovely as Fall From Grace's goodbye speech will be very satisfying (i.e. tell player at the end of the game which characters would continue to follow him after his quest is over, and why).

[Troller]

You guys gotta admit something: the main people that will be buying this game will be straight males, and where I come from, males love some eye candy, there is gotta have some nice cleavage in the game, hookers, hot companions...its all good

[Kilroy_Was_Here]

You guys gotta admit something: the main people that will be buying this game will be straight males, and where I come from, males love some eye candy, there is gotta have some nice cleavage in the game, hookers, hot companions...its all good

 

Hence the stereotypes of straight male gamers. Just because you and I might like that doesn't mean everyone else does. (They probably do but are afraid to admit it...)

[Bos_hybrid]

You guys gotta admit something: the main people that will be buying this game will be straight males, and where I come from, males love some eye candy, there is gotta have some nice cleavage in the game, hookers, hot companions...its all good

 

[Suen]

You guys gotta admit something: the main people that will be buying this game will be straight males

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WrjwaqZfjIY

[Exseed]

High fantasy, soul magic, monster slaying, romance - the stuff of legends, right Boo?

[Lady Evenstar]

on the subject of player-sexual NPCs ... just yetch. I don't want NPCs with the edges rubbed off so that they stand ready to accommodate me, whoever I may be. It means shallower characters and less diversity in my parties. For most our sexuality is a significant part of who we are and to disregard that seems to me the opposite of a mature approach to content.

[Troller]

You guys gotta admit something: the main people that will be buying this game will be straight males

[media]

Let's be realistic here shall we? most of gaming people are man, and their girlfriends; girls for 95% of the time only get into gaming because of their boyfriend love for gaming, as to gay people, yea there are a lot of those, but they are still a minority, maybe not on the internet, but in real life it is.

[Tale]

You guys gotta admit something: the main people that will be buying this game will be straight males, and where I come from, males love some eye candy, there is gotta have some nice cleavage in the game, hookers, hot companions...its all good

The thing I'd take issue with here is the assumption that, even if the majority will be straight males, that they necessarily want titillation. I think between minorities and straight males that are looking for something else, the overall majority could easily wish for different.

 

Where I come from, many straight males have other priorities and wish for outfits on characters that make sense.

[Troller]

You guys gotta admit something: the main people that will be buying this game will be straight males, and where I come from, males love some eye candy, there is gotta have some nice cleavage in the game, hookers, hot companions...its all good

The thing I'd take issue with here is the assumption that, even if the majority will be straight males, that they necessarily want titillation. I think between minorities and straight males that are looking for something else, the contrary group wishes could easily wish for different.

That's true, I'm just speaking from my own experience though, and my knowledge of the gamer people. If you go lurk some other big forums like 4chan, in the video game boards for example, there is always threads for waifus and titillation, its just the testosterone I guess.

[el pinko grande]

I'd love there to be romances in the game. Personally, it feels kind of weird to me when there aren't. I find it implausible that a bunch of people spending months together in close confines, sharing adventures wouldn't mostly end up paired off.

 

Also, just to be a contrarian, I loved the romances in DA:O. I didn't necessarily love the romance mechanics, but I thought Leliana and Morrigan were really well written, and I very much enjoyed the way those relationships progressed. If we could get something of equal depth in this game, I'd be ecstatic.

[sparklecat]

I think NPCs being attracted to your PC regardless of their gender is much more believable than NPCs being attracted to your PC regardless of their personality, and increases player choice without sacrificing the important parts of characterization for the NPC. Because 1) I don't find it at all weird that you've got multiple bi people in a group the size of your average party, and 2) the awesome thing about playersexual NPCs is that you can also decide for yourself if you read any of them as straight or gay rather than bi, and play appropriately. For instance, in DA2, the Fenris romance seems less believable to me with a female PC, so I've simply never played it past the first flirt or so.

[incubus9]

I feel that there are three basic plot elements essential to most good fantasy stories. Love, Redemption, and Revenge. I think having those elements will make for an epic story. That being said, I think that romance should definitely be a part of a great CRPG experience. Emotional interaction and commitment between NPC's and the PC make for good immersion in the story. I think BG2 is currently the "best" example of what a good romance can do to further immersion in the story. I think it was a bit shallow at times, but it was far far better than anything BioWare has released lately. Also, I would add that I am all for a tragic or bittersweet romance. I am hoping that PE tackles more than just (but not completely exclude) a bubblegum romance.

[Drowsy Emperor]

I'm just waiting for this thread to evolve into the "we need gay romances" from Bioware forums.

 

Waiting with a shotgun.