HBO's Game of Thrones pt 2

[HoonDing]

Martin will likely pull a so-called "Jordan Gambit" in order to finish his magnum opus.

[melkathi]

 

I think he the best Fantasy writer I have ever read for a number of reasons.

 

 

I'd be interested in hearing them

[Walsingham]

 

 

I think he the best Fantasy writer I have ever read for a number of reasons.

 

 

I'd be interested in hearing them

 

 

1. Swans

[Hurlshort]

Yeah I'd put Martin in my top 10 fantasy writers.  They are clearly not to Drowsy's tastes, but you can't ignore the fact that these books were immensely popular even before the show came out.  How many fantasy writers even get their stuff put on film?

 

Although I will say, much like Robert Jordan, his pacing is getting a bit torturous in the last couple books.  No new settings or characters, please, just deal with the gigantic set you have.

[Blarghagh]

 

 

Protip: that's not how one writes an epic tale. Epic tales have continuity leading up to a predictable but sensible conclusion. 

 

This is without a doubt the worst thing I've ever seen parading around as a protip.

 

 

Then I guess the Illiad is crap as well? Because its both predictable and sensible in the specific context of an epic tragedy, something Martin didn't grasp before he caught an acute case of scribomania.

 

 

Ow! Strawman to the face!

 

What you're describing isn't The Illiad. What you're describing is Avatar. The Illiad is full of random God appearances and central heroes dying horrible deaths after losing all bravery and running away. Not much epic about the actual poem other than the length.

Edited June 10, 2013 by TrueNeutral

[melkathi]

There is not much "epic" about the Illiad?

...

If you are going to use a bastardisation of the word "epic" as used, for example, by the online gaming culture, then please do put in the disclaimer.

 

Αμόρφωτοι άνθρωποι... θα μας πούνε και τι είναι έπος και τί δεν είναι.

Άι σιχτίρ

[Blarghagh]

Well, of course it is an epic as in the noun, not so much epic as in the modern adjective as in riveting and large scale and especially not predictable. You can make that claim about any story everyone knows, but the narrative has many out-of-nowhere twists, a distinct lack of foreshadowed arcs and absolutely no comfortable solutions. What it does have is corpse desecration. In fact, it's pretty much everything Drowsy up there describes he hates about Martin's series. Paris and Robb may as well be the same character as far as the political ramifications of their actions go.

 

(And horribly boring from anything but a historical standpoint, did I mention that?)

Edited June 10, 2013 by TrueNeutral

[WDeranged]

George R. R. Martin Kills Off Whole Family

Edited June 10, 2013 by WDeranged

[BruceVC]

George R. R. Martin Kills Off Whole Family

 

Okay that should be joke of the week  

[melkathi]

Just ran across this:

[HoonDing]

Season finale was a mess.

[Rosbjerg]

Wll, sure it could easily have used about twice as long to delve into the different subplots, but I like it. They tell me enough to figure out what's going on and hinting enough at what's going on beneath to make me even more intrigued. It's like a week long trailer for the books.

[BruceVC]

Wll, sure it could easily have used about twice as long to delve into the different subplots, but I like it. They tell me enough to figure out what's going on and hinting enough at what's going on beneath to make me even more intrigued. It's like a week long trailer for the books.

 

 

When are you going to start on the books? I imagine with your 3 month holiday you will have plenty of time. I am keen to find out what you think about them. To be honest there are some people who didn't like them but they seem to be in the minority

[Rosbjerg]

I have a backlog of about 60 or so books, so it's gonna be some time to be honest. I'm currently reading up on Oscar Wilde and that takes a while as you can imagine (but damn The Picture of Dorian Gray is a filthy little masterpiece! )

[Pidesco]

I'm following the series along the with books and I find the show much better than the books. It takes what's worthy about the books, shaves off the rubbish and the added scenes and characters are, usually, improvements (Podrick's skills were the exception, though). That said, Storm of Swords is much, much better than the previous books. I almost recommend you skip Clash of Kings, which is probably one of the worst books I've ever read.

[BruceVC]

I'm following the series along the with books and I find the show much better than the books. It takes what's worthy about the books, shaves off the rubbish and the added scenes and characters are, usually, improvements (Podrick's skills were the exception, though). That said, Storm of Swords is much, much better than the previous books. I almost recommend you skip Clash of Kings, which is probably one of the worst books I've ever read.

 

No offense but to suggest skipping any book in the series must the worst advice I have ever heard

Edited June 12, 2013 by BruceVC

[Pidesco]

I'd argue that the literary pain you'd have to endure to go through Clash of Kings, makes season 2 of the show a reasonable substitute.

[Drowsy Emperor]

I'm following the series along the with books and I find the show much better than the books. It takes what's worthy about the books, shaves off the rubbish and the added scenes and characters are, usually, improvements (Podrick's skills were the exception, though). That said, Storm of Swords is much, much better than the previous books. I almost recommend you skip Clash of Kings, which is probably one of the worst books I've ever read.

 

I agree actually. Most of the failings of the tv show (the pornographic display of violence and well, regular softcore pornography) are Martin's failings. Some of the characters are far more watchable in the show. Many completely unnecessary scenes have been removed much to the benefit of the overall plot progression.

 

Its a rare moment that filmed material trumps any book, but this definitely is one of them.

[Hurlshort]

It helps that Martin is not only heavily involved in the show, meaning he can actively fix things after a decade of hindsight, but he's also an experience television writer.

[melkathi]

It helps that Martin is not only heavily involved in the show, meaning he can actively fix things after a decade of hindsight, but he's also an experience television writer.

 

As I understand he isn't heavily involved in the show. He interviewed the people who asked him if they could do the show, decided that he felt they'd do a good job and has been letting them do their show, while contributing one episode per season.

[melkathi]

 

I agree actually. Most of the failings of the tv show (the pornographic display of violence and well, regular softcore pornography) are Martin's failings.

 

That has been thrown around so often that people actually believe it.

the scenes are in the book. But they are part of thousand pags long books. In that they carry far less weight than they do when they are put in tv episodes and suddenly have a far greater relative length to the rest content. The failing here is that of the HBO audience who thinks that to prove how progressive they are, they need porn in their normal tv shows.

[WDeranged]

I was fine with all the porn till my mum started watching it 

[Drowsy Emperor]

 

 

I agree actually. Most of the failings of the tv show (the pornographic display of violence and well, regular softcore pornography) are Martin's failings.

 

That has been thrown around so often that people actually believe it.

the scenes are in the book. But they are part of thousand pags long books. In that they carry far less weight than they do when they are put in tv episodes and suddenly have a far greater relative length to the rest content. The failing here is that of the HBO audience who thinks that to prove how progressive they are, they need porn in their normal tv shows.

 

 

Well that's what I said - they are in the books, but sure they're disproportional compared to the rest of the content in the tv show. That's typical HBO **** and gibs policy.

 

A bit of realism served the Wire well. I think it was well integrated in the theme.

 

But from that point on, (or even before, I don't know) its become a feature of all HBO shows. Its the same drop in standards that happened when reality shows came about, a new low to titillate the crowds. 

 

The irony is that they're calling it progressive. From a western where a man keels over when shot to zoomed in stabbings of pregnant women in less than 50 years - yay for progress.

[Hurlshort]

Heh, this thread is the exact opposite of the boob thread in C&C.  

[melkathi]

 

 

Well that's what I said - they are in the books, but sure they're disproportional compared to the rest of the content in the tv show. That's typical HBO **** and gibs policy.

 

A bit of realism served the Wire well. I think it was well integrated in the theme.

 

But from that point on, (or even before, I don't know) its become a feature of all HBO shows. Its the same drop in standards that happened when reality shows came about, a new low to titillate the crowds. 

 

The irony is that they're calling it progressive. From a western where a man keels over when shot to zoomed in stabbings of pregnant women in less than 50 years - yay for progress.

 

 

I think there is a reason why The Wire is considered by many the best tv show. Everything in that show had a place in it.

 

slightly off topic and not wanting to start a huge a debate, but:

I feel TV has regressed (if that is the rigth word to use).

I was watching first season MacGuyver last month *waits for people to roll eyes* and was thinking that while Obama talks about gun-control, those of us in favour of such a move lost the fight a long time ago, when from a pacifist secret agent, who'd use his brain to solve problems and who commented how he never thought he'd ever find use for a gun, when he used one as a wrench, our favourid shows, that we cheer for their progressiveness, became the current HBO culture.