Wasteland 2 Kickstarter

[mkreku]

No. But it would be better.

[Blodhemn]

Yeah, W2 should be first person with immersing gunfights and realistic movement and stuff. It would be totally ground breaking. Wait a moment... no, it wouldn't be at all.

I didn't say it should be. It's exactly what the people who backed asked for. Old schoolers love to make fun of today's games, so here is their average isometric game.

 

No. But it would be better.

Lol

[Hurlshort]

It cannot break new ground because of camera angle? What? 

 

It should totally be in the fourth person perspective, that's where the future lies.  You don't even have to be at a computer to play the game that way.    

[Gromnir]

Yeah, Arcanum isn't the best measuring stick.

 

I'd be happy for something in the veins of the first two thirds of Fallout Tactics myself (and it's the game style I expect from the game more than anything else I think).

 

Edit: And I know, not exactly the best measuring stick either, although I like that game myself.

up to the robot portion of the game, fot is an excellent squad-based tactical combat game. folks at codex and nma get their collective panties in such a twist over deathclaws with fur (gasp!) and other sins 'gainst fallout canon that they can't see fot's many strengths. too bad. 

 

HA! Good Fun!

[Lexx]

Just because most of "us" folks at nma don't like the deathclaws and all that, it doesn't mean FoT is on "our" hate-liste. Me personally, I like the game quite a lot, even though I probably only ever finished it once. At some point in the game, it just becomes tedious with you using always the same tactic, which is super boring.

Edited December 25, 2013 by Lexx

[Oner]

I liked the robots too. Meeting them and going all "They can't be harmed!" sure hammered in the seriousness of the threat.
Buuut I kept an energy weapon handy. An my Browning Mk2. Etc.

[Gromnir]

Just because most of "us" folks at nma don't like the deathclaws and all that, it doesn't mean FoT is on "our" hate-liste. Me personally, I like the game quite a lot, even though I probably only ever finished it once. At some point in the game, it just becomes tedious with you using always the same tactic, which is super boring.

*chuckle*

 

so it seems "your" hate list has changed a bit in the past few years. keep in mind that Gromnir were around when fot were released, and we got an earful o' the nma and codexian nonsense regarding that game. were only a smidgen less rabid than the fallout: brotherhood of steel... fallout?

 

as an aside, am finding similar amusement at how many/most codexians react to the new gamebansee review of age of decadence beta. a year ago the reviewer in question were being thanked by vd and getting called "insightful." a not so glowing review later by the same guy results in codexians calling the reviewer a doofus... and much worse. 

 

truth-to-tell, we likes codex and nma. is kinda like the onion, but the "writers" don't know they is being funny.

 

HA! Good Fun!

[Lexx]

Well, of course people hated it on release... The game wasn't what everyone wanted. Fallout was expected, instead there was wannabe Jagged Alliance 2, with a linear story, linear map layout and half of the skill system was useless. In the end it's not a bad game, but for sure a bad Fallout game.

 

Some folks on the codex agree with the AoD gamebanshee reviewer, if I remember correct. And he does make valid points here and there. Other than that, it's the codex. I personally am not even sure if it isn't just trolling oftentimes.

 

What I just don't like is, when people see such websites as single entities. One person on the forum writes something and BAM, it apparently becomes the thought of the whole forum. Kinda annoying.

Edited December 25, 2013 by Lexx

[Majek]

If FOT had less robots or at least 3-4 missions more for other enemies ( especially bandits and super mutants, beastlords not that much, and Reavers should've gotten more time as an enemy), was  balanced better, had a different animation instead of frigging DUCK walk,  oh and decent AI, not to mention a proper Sprite editor ( i forgot why they couldn't release the one they had along with the editor), i would have love it as much as Fallout & 2. ( Ok. exploding barrels could be removed as well ). But as it is, i only like it.

 

Wasteland 2 so far appeals more to me.

[Keyrock]

I'm just really disappointed they didn't design the game around motion/Kinect controls.  Opportunity missed, inXile.  Where is your innovation? 

[Oner]

Some folks on the codex agree with the AoD gamebanshee reviewer, if I remember correct.

Did I miss something?

[Gromnir]

Well, of course people hated it on release... 

 

...

 

is as if you don't even realize what you says/admit. regardless o' game strengths or weakness, codex and nma folks is somehow able to genuine like or dislike a game based on wacky preconceived notions? ok. and identify that one or two people don't get swallowed up by the group-think is hardly compelling neither as outside o' some cults, it is near impossible to get universal consensus on even the least contentious o' issues. 

 

a ja2 wannabe? *chuckle* lord knows why that would be surprising given it were called fallout TACTICS and marketed as a squad-based tactical strategy game with role-play elements... ain't even gonna get started on your "skills" comment. that one is funny.

 

HA! Good Fun!

[Zoraptor]

 

Some folks on the codex agree with the AoD gamebanshee reviewer, if I remember correct.

Did I miss something?

 

There's an R4 (p)review of the AoD demo on Gamebanshee done by Eric 'sea' Schwarz which is in parts not so complimentary as the previous one he did two years ago. Some people on fair codexia agree with him, some do not. For some unspecified reason this is significant as opposed to the other 999/1000 times that people on the codex don't agree with each other. AoD is a fairly divisive game on the codex anyway, it has a lot of ardent defenders but it has snipers and detractors too.

 

FOT's biggest failing wasn't that it was a JA2 clone, it was that it was a bad JA2 clone. Too few action points, too many enemies resulted in TB combat being exactly the turgid and stultifying affair that TTON's combat detractors fear, too many characters and too quick real time combat (plus the horrible switch between the two) meant that it was nearly impossible to use tactics properly in real time and you did need to use tactics.

[Oner]

 

 

Some folks on the codex agree with the AoD gamebanshee reviewer, if I remember correct.

Did I miss something?

 

There's an R4 (p)review of the AoD demo on Gamebanshee done by Eric 'sea' Schwarz which is in parts not so complimentary as the previous one he did two years ago. Some people on fair codexia agree with him, some do not. For some unspecified reason this is significant as opposed to the other 999/1000 times that people on the codex don't agree with each other. AoD is a fairly divisive game on the codex anyway, it has a lot of ardent defenders but it has snipers and detractors too.

 

FOT's biggest failing wasn't that it was a JA2 clone, it was that it was a bad JA2 clone. Too few action points, too many enemies resulted in TB combat being exactly the turgid and stultifying affair that TTON's combat detractors fear, too many characters and too quick real time combat (plus the horrible switch between the two) meant that it was nearly impossible to use tactics properly in real time and you did need to use tactics.

 

Thanks, you are the awesome!

[Blodhemn]

I'm just really disappointed they didn't design the game around motion/Kinect controls.  Opportunity missed, inXile.  Where is your innovation? 

My point exactly. 

[Gromnir]

 

 

Some folks on the codex agree with the AoD gamebanshee reviewer, if I remember correct.

Did I miss something?

 

There's an R4 (p)review of the AoD demo on Gamebanshee done by Eric 'sea' Schwarz which is in parts not so complimentary as the previous one he did two years ago. Some people on fair codexia agree with him, some do not. For some unspecified reason this is significant as opposed to the other 999/1000 times that people on the codex don't agree with each other. AoD is a fairly divisive game on the codex anyway, it has a lot of ardent defenders but it has snipers and detractors too.

 

FOT's biggest failing wasn't that it was a JA2 clone, it was that it was a bad JA2 clone. Too few action points, too many enemies resulted in TB combat being exactly the turgid and stultifying affair that TTON's combat detractors fear, too many characters and too quick real time combat (plus the horrible switch between the two) meant that it was nearly impossible to use tactics properly in real time and you did need to use tactics.

 

aod is only seeming divisive to you because the typical codex groupthink is less pronounced. is not just vol and maybe two other nutters arguing futile. nope, vd cheesed off enough folks that perhaps there is five (*gasp*) folks not buying into the silliness that aod represents we-kid-you-not a "paradigm-shift in rpg development." guess it takes an outsider to recognize.

 

oh, and it is more than a little amusing that fot's biggest failing were not that it were a ja2 clone, but that it were a fallout game. there were absolute nothing wrong with ap allocation, save for twitchy finger folks who wanted to litter the maps with empty shell casings and plasma burns, but fot did has all the major flaws o' fo and fo2... but perhaps less so. at some point small guns became far less useful than energy, so you kinda need plan ahead to allocate points appropriate. yeah, the obsolescence o' weapon skills were less pronounced in fot than in previous fallouts 'cause o' the inclusion o' particular weapons, but it were still an issue. there were a couple traits that were overwhelming superior, which is horrible design-- shoulda' fixed cain's mistake. there were also near essential perks, and useless perks, but they were fo perks. lexx is complete wrong 'bout fot skills, but much like fo, gambling were busted even before the patch. first aid were seeming relegated to multiplayer-only usefulness... and who played fot mp? am gonna concede that as far as we could see, pilot were a complete busted skill.  it is indeed true that fot turn-based combat were frequent as soul-numbing as it were in the previous fo games. luckily, Gromnir were/is highly resistant to the Death-By-A-Thousand-Cuts that is fo tb combat. however, the real-time feature were, in point of fact, quite a relief as for ez battles one could simple switch to rt on-the-fly to hasten the otherwise interminable pace of fallout-style combat. nevertheless, for all its fo legacy handicaps, fot managed to be a very good squad-based tactical combat game.

 

as an aside, am playing new xcom, and we note that the most obvious way in which the xcom developers addressed the trapped-in-amber feel o' tb combat were nothing particular profound or insightful. smaller maps is the xcom solution. all other aspects o' tb combat that can makes extreme dull is still present, but compare typical xcom map to (am forgetting the names as it has been so long) mardin(?) or jefferson. 

 

HA! Good Fun!

[Tigranes]

The thing is, everyone wanted an old school game, so WL2 shouldn't innovate on that front, obviously. But to me the best kind of KS game we could conceivably get is an old school game that also makes innovations within that genre's spirit and thus makes of itself its own character. Arcanum, Fallout 1, Baldur's Gate 1, Torment all achieved this one way or another. WL2 plays and feels exactly like, well, some kind of 3D, non-proprietary setting total conversion mod of FO1/2 or something. That makes it a very fun game, a good game, a game I'm liking a lot and am glad I backed. But I have a lot more expectation for Eternity and Torment in the sense that I hope they go on and try to be their own thing more. 

[Lexx]

lexx is complete wrong 'bout fot skills, but much like fo, gambling were busted even before the patch. first aid were seeming relegated to multiplayer-only usefulness...

 

Yeah, you are right. Gambling, Speech and Stealing were all useful skills in Tactics, as much as any weapon skill. Oh wait... that's not true at all. Seems like I am not complete wrong 'bout fot skills. But skills and perks aren't the only single thing that make Tactics a not very good Fallout game. More important is the lack of dialog trees / lack of npc interaction and real choice&consequence. Tactics is simply a mostly linear game with a bit of "chose your ending" in the last 10 minutes.

 

Still. This doesn't change the fact that websites like nma or the codex aren't one entity / hive minds, just because some people are loud in their opinion.

Edited December 26, 2013 by Lexx

[Gromnir]

 

lexx is complete wrong 'bout fot skills, but much like fo, gambling were busted even before the patch. first aid were seeming relegated to multiplayer-only usefulness...

 

Yeah, you are right. Gambling, Speech and Stealing were all useful skills in Tactics, as much as any weapon skill.

only a complete fo fanboy would suggest that gambling, ________, and stealing were as useful as weapon skills in fo. and as the game is foTACTICS, only a complete fallout zealot would expect the non-weapon skills to be equal usefulness to the weapon skills. but again, the skills were a holdover from fo. btw, we leave speech blank because as fot were a squad-based tactical strat game there were no speech skill. duh.  regardless, there were no genuine non-combat skills in fot, 'cause, it were a combat tactics game. skills such as barter, gamble, steal, repair, and lock pick were in the game to give players who boosted such skills better equipment. outdoorsman were extreme effective for helping to avoid those pesky early deathclaw or supermutant random encounters. etc. 

 

is like firing on clay pigeons. 

 

HA! Good Fun!

[Lexx]

I never said that gambling was good in Fallout 1 / 2. I like how you try to hang me on a few words, though.

[Gromnir]

I never said that gambling was good in Fallout 1 / 2. I like how you try to hang me on a few words, though.

YOU create a strawman and then complain?  HA! we never suggested that gambling were equal useful as weapons skills in fot... because only an idiot or a fo fanboy would expect such from fallout TACTICS. nevertheless, you want exact quotes? fine then...

 

 "half of the skill system was useless."

 

your ridiculous denunciation o' fot skills is what prompted our initial response, and is why we yet again, before you try to reinvent what you said, call bs.

 

happy?

 

HA! Good Fun!

[Majek]

Speech was the best skill in FOT, practically nonexistent.

[Lexx]

HA! we never suggested that gambling were equal useful as weapons skills in fot... because only an idiot or a fo fanboy would expect such from fallout TACTICS.

 

 

And yet you mentioned it first. Still what I said is true. Show me how you fight the later mobs with the small weapons skill or melee weapons, for example. It's much easier to go with the energy weapons skill, as it is in Fo1. Spares you lots of ammo, many reloads and enemies die like flies.

 

If I remember correct, the most useful skills in Tactics are energy weapons, pilot (for one guy), lockpick here and there and probably traps in a few situations. In the beginning one might want to give one or two dudes some points in big weapons and due to lack of alternative weapons, a few points in small weapons until something better comes around. One might want to have some first aid / doctor  and that's it. I don't think I ever needed something else.

 

 

Ah well, and there was this bug that gives you worldmap encounters every few seconds. With Outdoorsman you could get around this... Doesn't change the fact that it's just a bug, though. Normally you shouldn't be swarmed in encounters like that.

[Gromnir]

what on earth is you talking about? what did we mention first? that fot biggest shortcoming as a squad-based tactical combat game were that it were a fallout game, with all the combat shortcomings that were legacies of the fallout franchise? but it would be strange/hypocritical for you to argue that nma and codex raged that fot wasn't fallout enough, then identify ubiquitous fallout flaws as fot shortcomings. yeah, Gromnir already identified that there were an obsolescence o' weapon skills... although we did mention it were less o' an issue than previous fo games. after all, the best ranged weapon in the game (gaus rifle) were small guns.  the cattle prod and ripper, coupled with right perks, were making melee viable throughout the game. so, o' the 19 fot skills, identify the 9 that were "useless."  depending on which patch version we is speaking of, the only skill we would identify as arguably useless were pilot skill.

 

and your memory is bad. the most useful skills in tactics were  small guns, big guns or unarmed... is a good argument for any o' the three. weren't enough gauss ammo for everybody in a squad, but small guns were best early AND late in game. emp shells for the pancor also were keeping small guns useful throughout, but again, there were limited anti-robot ammo. big guns started out a bit slow, but saws and brownings were not rare, and browning were effective throughout entire game. as with fo games previous to fo3, energy weapons were not a particular useful skill for between 1/2 and 2/3 of game... makes it a bad call for best skill.  

 

as for other skills, they were all useful... too useful at times. is no skill we would call useless, and our squads invariably were build so that all skills were maxed.  

 

regardless, this is getting silly... is why we rare deal with codex or nma anymore.

 

HA! Good Fun!

[Majek]

Stealing was as important as weapon skills in FO and FO2. The more you stole, the more powerful you were.

Stealing was awesome in FOT too. Robbing everyone in BOS bunkers was an easy way to get supplies, especially Stimpaks.

 

Gambling was also good to have in FOT. Instead of 200* clicks you needed far less to rob the quartermaster in one of the bunkers and then sells everything for millions of BOS cash.