What in the name of skilfully poised ****?

[Tale]

http://en.wikipedia....States_military

That is terrifying.

[Gorgon]

Predictable surely. Soldiers are just people who had lives and opinions before they joined. The prospect of combat draws certain types of individuals more than others. Queue the myth of the 1% who are natural born killers. Partially true though.

[Orogun01]

http://en.wikipedia....States_military

That is terrifying.

I thought it would be common knowledge by now.

 

The military it's a stepping stone that helps many an impoverished people to rise above their class by helping with their education (college loans)

Unfortunately there is also the insidious element that want sanction to murder and since they don't like taking orders they inevitably reverse back to the gang life.

[Tale]

http://en.wikipedia....States_military

That is terrifying.

I thought it would be common knowledge by now.

 

The military it's a stepping stone that helps many an impoverished people to rise above their class by helping with their education (college loans)

Unfortunately there is also the insidious element that want sanction to murder and since they don't like taking orders they inevitably reverse back to the gang life.

Did you read the entry? The way you describe it, you'd think it was the typical "soldier can't adapt to civilian life" thing. But no, it's gangs actively joining the military completely with the intent to improve their gang and not getting filtered out of the process.

 

It's a problem with the recruitment, not the afterwards.

[Orogun01]

Did you read the entry? The way you describe it, you'd think it was the typical "soldier can't adapt to civilian life" thing. But no, it's gangs actively joining the military completely with the intent to improve their gang and not getting filtered out of the process.

 

It's a problem with the recruitment, not the afterwards.

On the recruitment level it becomes a matter of them needing bodies on the ground and if it helps cull out the the gang numbers it's a win win. But for the gangs it's an opportunity to gain training which since the Zetas raised the bar has been copied by the surviving gangs. Aside from the consequences it's a convenient relationship for both.

[Drowsy Emperor]

Because hey, how can it not be good to have an army of convicts and killers?

[Malcador]

Because hey, how can it not be good to have an army of convicts and killers?

 

It worked for Shaddam IV.

[Orogun01]

Because hey, how can it not be good to have an army of convicts and killers?

Gangs usually keep themselves in shape and have a higher tolerance for violence and danger, aside from having a low level of education which affords them few other options.

So...they are fit young men with a tolerance for the job and no other option, or as the recruiters know them: "Jackpot!"

[Walsingham]

Having watched four episodes of The Wire yesterday I can see how some aspects of gang life would help with the Army. But the things it won't help with are what the British Army calls values and standards.

 

http://www.army.mod.uk/documents/general/v_s_of_the_british_army.pdf

 

Selfless commitment - not really

Courage - definitely a demand for this

Discipline - in some ways, but no the all the way round discipline the Army wants ...the good kind

Integrity - *snort*

Loyalty - Ostensibly, yes. But the actual mechanics of dealing directly conflict with this. the reality is likely to be otherwise

Respect for Others - *guffaw*

[Drowsy Emperor]

The demands placed on a soldier are tough even for exemplary people. Maybe especially for them. To fight, kill and be willing to give your life - and remain in all other respects just like everybody else - and rise above the horrible temptations and psychological challenges that come with the job.

 

I'd never judge anyone who failed to meet these expectations harshly, it takes the kind of inner resources few people have.

My grandfather who was a partisan (during WWII obviously) decorated with the Hero of Yugoslavia medal (the highest decoration that existed) and a general in the Yugoslav army after the war, was such a man. Yet even he, in the later years of his life had trouble wrestling with his demons. When the country started falling apart he practically died of grief.

 

Regardless, the military, any military, must train its people and instill in them a sense of ethics and duty.

 

Criminals, clueless suburban kids and psychopaths should have no place in the army. Or in war.

[Orogun01]

It just comes down to how you can break down the individual to reshape into a soldier that abides by those values, but when it comes to gangs the same things that make them viable candidates also makes them resilient to training. Plus a lack of leadership has contributed to almost every recent problem on the military, guess that "strategic thinkers" (college boys) don't make much of a leader.

[Walsingham]

Would you care to develop that point, Orogun?

[HoonDing]

Because hey, how can it not be good to have an army of convicts and killers?

 

It worked for Shaddam IV.

[Orogun01]

Would you care to develop that point, Orogun?

I'm of the opinion that leaders are made not born and in particularly made on the battlefield. This sleuth of new officers that came out fresh out of West Point has had a hard time keeping troops on point, not so much now as in the beginning of the war. When your subordinates are accustomed to gang life and to a particular ethnic group you're are going to have a problem with discipline. On the Ethnic side I know that they didn't like taking orders from a whitebread gringo, and when they are in a gang their rules supersede those of the military. For as long as they don't rock the boat to much, they get away with much and it gives them confidence that they have control and officers don't have many punitive resources as their main job it's to keep their unit together.

 

It's a few cases where officers play by military rules when the rest are playing by prison rules and of course there is the most heinous case where the officers are the perpetrators.

Because the military turns a blind eye to many of these events and tried to keep them under wraps, the few good men are stuck with no justice other than the one they make.

[Drowsy Emperor]

Whatever happened to the good old: "If you will not serve me, you'll serve on the firing line!"

[Rostere]

The problem is that today's armies are effectively no more than mercenaries, a profession done more for the money than anything else. As such, they by default attract the stupid, poor, psychotic and criminals. And ignorance makes for a poor excuse.

 

@Wals: justifying pissing on corpses puts you just below Papua New Guinea's cannibals on the civilization scale.

 

This...

[Gorgon]

It's in poor taste surely, but I mean, they are dead. If I had to chose between worrying about being peed on or being dead I know where I would land.

[Maria Caliban]

Long wars without any goals turn soldiers into ****ed up animals. What's the news?

 

If those guys come home and they don't get their AD's 'cause the Pharmamedical Industrial Complex wants more moniez, expect some "Fun" lethal accidents, while President Romney is gonna sing "America f-yeah!" to re-patriotinize his sheeple.

 

Move on, citizen.

It's true, for all our patriotism, the USA tends to treat soldiers as a disposable resource. We have a large enough underclass that we

[Drowsy Emperor]

This brings to mind the fate of Patrice Lumumba, Congo's first legally elected prime minister.

 

The belgian soldier that killed him proudly displayed the front teeth (or tooth) he keeps in a box at his home in Belgium. On History channel. And they actually aired that part. In the supposedly progressive 21st century.

 

Weeks later, when questions surfaced over the official version of Lumumba

Edited February 15, 2012 by Drowsy Emperor

[Drowsy Emperor]

Long wars without any goals turn soldiers into ****ed up animals. What's the news?

 

If those guys come home and they don't get their AD's 'cause the Pharmamedical Industrial Complex wants more moniez, expect some "Fun" lethal accidents, while President Romney is gonna sing "America f-yeah!" to re-patriotinize his sheeple.

 

Move on, citizen.

It's true, for all our patriotism, the USA tends to treat soldiers as a disposable resource. We have a large enough underclass that we

[Gorth]

Long wars without any goals turn soldiers into ****ed up animals. What's the news?

 

If those guys come home and they don't get their AD's 'cause the Pharmamedical Industrial Complex wants more moniez, expect some "Fun" lethal accidents, while President Romney is gonna sing "America f-yeah!" to re-patriotinize his sheeple.

 

Move on, citizen.

It's true, for all our patriotism, the USA tends to treat soldiers as a disposable resource. We have a large enough underclass that we

[Gorgon]

In the US the crooks become slave labour, freeing up resources for the cops to be able to round up more slave labour.

[Hurlshort]

In the US the crooks become slave labour, freeing up resources for the cops to be able to round up more slave labour.

 

Prisoners use a lot more resources than they provide.

[Raithe]

And are there any comparable statistics for unsolved crimes between China and the US? Or just how many of China's judgements end in the bullet to the head that the defendants family are then charged for?

[Tale]

Prisoners use a lot more resources than they provide.

They do, however, provide a convenient funnel for money from public to private sector.