Obsidian is the only hope for the RPG Genre

[guguma]

Dear All (Obsidian),

 

please forgive me but I had to steam off.

 

As far as I see, the current situation of RPG games are miserable, There are not more epic releases like Baldur's Gate or Fallout (The original 2).

 

Games that are categorized as best RPG's are,

 

1. Oblivion and in the future Skyrim no doubt

2. Anime RPG's

3. FPS + RPG Combinations

4. WoW

 

Seriously, well I do not want to talk bad about Bethesda since You guys did a collaboration with them (or should I say You did Your best to rescue the name of an Epic release from the hands of designers with the mentality of a 12 year old child), but I have to. Bethesda = SHINY SANDBOX + No "acceptable" Story + No Depth + No Personality of Characters + Lame Jokes and References + Exaggerated Violence (Which does not make it interesting) which adds up to a SHINY SANDBOX not an RPG.

 

Let us look at Bioware uuuuuhhhhhhhhhh "DRAGON AGE" shiny, what an epic failure, was not terrible but not good for a company with such a track record, and they released DRAGON AGE II, which means there is no hope from Bioware either.

 

Among all these titles which I will not mention anymore, NWN2: Mask of The Betrayer is never mentioned, which is obviously the game with most RPG content and was good in my opinion. I cannot say the same for NWN2.

 

Seriously guys, just plan and develop a good RPG we all know that You are capable of it, I understand that You are developers You are not going to work and playing silly games, swimming in wine filled pools with playboy girls who vomit money, I know that You guys work and a lot of jerks put a lot of pressure on developers. Do it in 5 years, 10 years whatever, ignore technology, todays graphics are fine for everything, just please release something EPIC, it is painful to play something like Fallout and Baldur's Gate and not coming accross anything half as good in 13-14 years.

 

P.S. I forgot to mention, If You do something EPIC this time I will not make the mistake of Buying only one copy and get 100 copies so the game developers I like does not go bankrupt.

Edited August 31, 2011 by guguma

[Junai]

it is painful to play something like Fallout and Baldur's Gate and not coming accross anything half as good in 13-14 years.

I dream they will redesign the Infinity engine so it spits out wonderous forests and dungeons in vogue with today's expectations.

Then they'll make a new sweeping 80 hrs 4'th ed. D&D game set in Cormyr, around Suzail, Dragonmere and the Dragoncoast.

No modern facegen-nonsense - rather tasteful artwork and portraits by Justine Sweet and Jason Manley.

Music by Jeremy Soule.

Story by.. someone with half a brain.

 

 

And brothels..

 

The chronicler has spoken..

 

 

J.

[Hampus]

Funnily enough, I agree.

[Mapalm]

it is painful to play something like Fallout and Baldur's Gate and not coming accross anything half as good in 13-14 years.

I dream they will redesign the Infinity engine so it spits out wonderous forests and dungeons in vogue with today's expectations.

Then they'll make a new sweeping 80 hrs 4'th ed. D&D game set in Cormyr, around Suzail, Dragonmere and the Dragoncoast.

No modern facegen-nonsense - rather tasteful artwork and portraits by Justine Sweet and Jason Manley.

Music by Jeremy Soule.

Story by.. someone with half a brain.

 

 

And brothels..

 

The chronicler has spoken..

 

 

J.

 

I agree, but I'd rather see it utilize the Pathfinder setting, I don't like 4th edition D&D very much and I'll not get into the 4th edition Forgotten Realms. I don't think anybody has licensed the Pathfinder IP yet for CRPG's. I could be mistaken though, don't quote me on that.

[Volourn]

BIO's last 3 RPGs = DA + ME2 + DA2 = pretty damn good games flaws and all

 

OBS last 3 RPGs = FO:LV + AP + DS3 = 2 of the worst games ever + one that was worthless to even purchase since its based on a horrible engine made by a horrible yet successful company

 

BIO wins. I wish Obsidian would focus more on fun games like NWN2, KOTOR2, and MOTB (a very awesome game) NOT this crappy stuff they've been throwing at us.

[Tel Prydain]

Oh, Voly. Bioware makes action adventure games that are fine games, but awful as RPGs.

New Vegas is the only console wRPG this generation worthy of the title.

Dungeon Siege was a solid aRPG.

Alpha Protocol was a technical mess, but there was a solid RPG under there.

 

Again, Bioware make fine games, but Mass Effect 2 has a lot more in common with Doom than Ultima.

[Volourn]

"Oh, Voly."

 

Don't use a term of affection. It's rude when you don't know someone.

 

 

" Bioware makes action adventure games that are fine games,"

 

They make RPGs or Action RPGs.

 

 

" but awful as RPGs."

 

Nope.

 

 

"New Vegas is the only console wRPG this generation worthy of the title."

 

It's an ACTION rpg based off of FO3's engine thereforen it sucks.

 

 

"Dungeon Siege was a solid aRPG.

Alpha Protocol was a technical mess, but there was a solid RPG under there."

 

These are two of the worst games ever. Some of the worst writing, characters, combat, C&C, etc., etc. I've ever seen. So beneath the company responsible for a gem like MOTB or solid rpgs like NWN2 and KOTOR2.

 

 

"Again, Bioware make fine games, but Mass Effect 2 has a lot more in common with Doom than Ultima."

 

ME has way more in common with Ultima than it does with Doom. Have you ever played those 2 games? Outside of the 'real time combat', ME2's gameplay, story structure, C&C, and everything else is Ultimaish. Stats and character chocies matter. The story, and quest reuslts change depending on your choices. Sorry, dude, anyone who claims that ME has more in common with Doom than Ultima have not played either game. Then again, Ultima 1 is rather ioverrated by RPG fans. Now, some of the later Ultimas are down right awesome. Then again, people tend to forget nUltima had tons of conbat, a limited character system, crappy graphics, a bland story, and its C&C was nothing really special.

[Oblarg]

Alpha Protocol has easily the most impressive branching narrative of any modern RPG. I played it five times, and got distinctly different things happening each time, none of which seemed tacked-on or half-baked. That, and the lack of those obnoxious "PICK ENDING BRANCH HERE" moments that games like Mass Effect are so fond of made it a really enjoyable experience for the narrative alone. Yes, the combat was clunky and the AI lame, but those were minor issues for me.

 

I do think, however, that the Alpha Protocol concept could have been quite a bit better had there been more reactivity to character skills in dialogue - the shunning of a "dialogue skill" is nice, but I feel that it wasn't adequately replaced by other reactivity, and thus your character build ultimately had very little impact on how the game ultimately played out, minus the few points of reactivity to how you'd go about a mission. The few times technical aptitude opened up additional dialogue choices were nice, but why wasn't that done with every skill? It'd be great, for example, if you could only disarm Surkov when he pulls a gun on you if you have sufficient martial arts skill. I think one thing that could take a game like Alpha Protocol from merely "good" to "classic" status would be large-scale reactivity to *every* skill tree in dialogue. This would probably necessitate a fundamentally different skill-tree design (trying to work in reactivity to skills in each of the four individual weapon classes would be goofy and unworkable), but given that Alpha Protocol is such a narrative-driven RPG it's disappointing when the RPG mechanics (read: character building) don't have that much effect on the narrative.

 

Still, calling AP one of the "worst games ever" is ****ing stupid, but I expect no different from Volo.

[Volourn]

"Still, calling AP one of the "worst games ever" is ****ing stupid, but I expect no different from Volo. "

 

Sorry if the truth hurts you, but the truth is the truth. And, flaming me which is against baord rules doesn't change those facts. AP is a poor game and Obsidian is so much capable of better. AP is definitely one of the worst games ever.

[Tel Prydain]

"Oh, Voly."

 

Don't use a term of affection. It's rude when you don't know someone.

Sorry 'bout that, old chum. I feel like I know you... I've chatted with you on the Interplay boards, the codex, the old bioware board and the new 'social' Bioware boards. Pretty sure I've bumped into you other places too... maybe the Troika forums?

 

Used to use the tag 'Larryboy_Dragon'. Dropped it because... well, because it was dumb.

Perhaps I'm just not memorable.

 

 

" Bioware makes action adventure games that are fine games,"

 

They make RPGs or Action RPGs.

 

 

" but awful as RPGs."

 

Nope.

 

aRPGs, sure... Would agree 100% with Dragon Age. Would agree 70% on Mass Effect 1.

But Mass Effect 2.... it's no more an RPG than Bioshock.

And Dragon Age 2... oh sweet lord above... after Dragon Age 1 was such a refreshing breath of air, DA2 was just....

In Dragon Age 2's defense, it's more of an RPG than Mass Effect 2.... and slightly more tactical on console due to a 'move' command for companions... but it was otherwise the biggest disappointment this generation.

 

"New Vegas is the only console wRPG this generation worthy of the title."

 

It's an ACTION rpg based off of FO3's engine thereforen it sucks.

The character build options that changed how you play the game and solved quests.

The open, active world that made sense.

The Character agency that allowed you to make decisions that mattered.

No other game this generation has done those things better.

 

"Again, Bioware make fine games, but Mass Effect 2 has a lot more in common with Doom than Ultima."

 

ME has way more in common with Ultima than it does with Doom. Have you ever played those 2 games? Outside of the 'real time combat', ME2's gameplay, story structure, C&C, and everything else is Ultimaish. Stats and character chocies matter. The story, and quest reuslts change depending on your choices. Sorry, dude, anyone who claims that ME has more in common with Doom than Ultima have not played either game.

Outside of combat? The three games are all mostly combat!

 

Gameplay?

Navigate a series of shooter levels that are only designed as shooting ranges. Doom +1

Finish a bunch of those levels and get a bit of story. Doom +1

Levels can not be returned to. Doom +1

Loot? Just a handful of per-determined guns. Doom +1

Inventory? Nope. Doom +1

Combat - action game where you Shoot the other guys. Doom +1

'Magic'/Biotic powers Ultima +1

 

I mean, I guess that ME2 has C&C... if you consider an slight change in dialogue a consequence.

 

Then again, Ultima 1 is rather ioverrated by RPG fans. Now, some of the later Ultimas are down right awesome. Then again, people tend to forget nUltima had tons of conbat, a limited character system, crappy graphics, a bland story, and its C&C was nothing really special.

Oh yeah - don't get me wrong. I'm not a misanthropic Codexer - Akalabeth and Ultima 1, 2, 3 are all crap. I mean, in their day they were awesome, but their day is long gone. Hell, I'd add Ultima 4 and 6 to the list of "games that were great, but are overrated by modern-day RPG gamers whose nostalgia goggles are glued on and are unplayable today". The only thing saving Ultima 5 from that list is that 5's story and theme are perhaps the high-point of the series (7 was a great game, but like you said the story was overrated). Also, U5 has one of the greatest C&C moments in RPG history. I mean, it didn't have a lot of C&C, but the one situation it did have.... if they tried that in a modern game there would be touches and pitch-forks.

 

Anyhow... back to what I was going to say...

Bioware games are ever creeping ever closer to the 'adventure' genre.... like... they have gone past Quest for Glory and are now slipping into Kings Quest teritory. That's cool... and you can argue that it's 'roleplaying', but it's not in the traditional cRPG genre anymore.

[Volourn]

"mean, I guess that ME2 has C&C... if you consider an slight change in dialogue a consequence. "

 

Considering decisions you make during the entire game and not justb the last aprt can end with you losing or losing all your crew, the C&C is some of the best found in any game.

 

ME2 has a character creation system, full dialogue with actual chocies that effect the outcome of said conversations, branching storylines, multiple ways to approach and conclude both side quests and main quests. You have the choice of which party members you have which effect both combat and non combat situations. For most of the game, you have choice on what to do 9almost all RPGs tend to suck you into a linear path near the end (even BG2 does this once you you finish collecting 20k), ME2 does have inventory though I agre the inventory is not as verbose as I'd prefer buit it's there. ME2 has some things in common with Doom but has a lot more in common with a RPG like Ultima. Doom is ALL about the combat. ME2 is about combat, story, characters, etc.,e tc. just like any BIO game. Certainly a deeper character system and C&C than say BG1 or even BG2.

 

 

 

"... if you consider an slight change in dialogue a consequence. "

 

This is funny since this is a common complaint about all BIO games from the nayayers. the funny thing is that in ME2 the C&C is so all encompassing that it literally effects the end sequence and not just a simple good vs evil decision right at (or just before) end. You cna literally lose the game due to poor decision making 9well.. really poor decision making heh).

 

 

 

":but it's not in the traditional cRPG genre anymore. "

 

None of BIO's games have been 'traditional'. That would mean they'd ahve to be turn based combat games with little plot, no story, lack of real C&C outside of what class you choose and combat that involving smiting 255 beholders and dragons in the end game. I'll pass.

Edited October 14, 2011 by Volourn

[mkreku]

"Still, calling AP one of the "worst games ever" is ****ing stupid, but I expect no different from Volo. "

 

Sorry if the truth hurts you, but the truth is the truth. And, flaming me which is against baord rules doesn't change those facts. AP is a poor game and Obsidian is so much capable of better. AP is definitely one of the worst games ever.

I checked on Metacritic: Alpha Protocol has an average review score of 72 on PC and at worst (on PS3) 63. I did a quick, lazy check (because I'm not too bothered by your usual BS) for games with an average score less than 63 and the search engine returned 1000 results. That's the max it can return so it is unknown exactly how many games are worse than Alpha Protoclol, but we know it is more than 1000.

 

So.. enlighten me with the "truth". Exactly where is Alpha protocol "one of the worst games ever"?

[Volourn]

Did you really just use other people's opinions to order me to change my opinion? LMAO

 

Did you also just use Metacritics as a factual source instead of the opinion source it actually is? LMAO

[C2B]

Did you really just use other people's opinions to order me to change my opinion? LMAO

 

Your opinion?

 

Isn't Truth=Fact?

[Flouride]

One can only use Metacritic as a source when it fits Voly's agenda. You should know this by now.

[Walsingham]

Interesting topic what you have shared with us. Your writing skill is really very appreciative. I love when you share your views through the best articles.Keep sharing and posting articles like these.This article has helped me a lot.Keep posting this stuff.

 

I knew this had to be spam because he appeared to be responding to Volo.

[Volourn]

"One can only use Metacritic as a source when it fits Voly's agenda. You should know this by now. "

 

I have never used MC to order someone to like a game. I have used MC in discussion about how popular or not popular a game may or may not be. I have never allowed anyone tell me how I feel about a game. Plenty of games I enjoy that majority of gamers hate and plenty of games I hate that the majority like. Afterall, if I was a majority lap dog, I'd be a ES fanboy.. and you should know I'm no ES fanboy but I wouldn';t dispute its popularity.

 

R00fles!

Edited October 15, 2011 by Volourn

[mkreku]

Did you really just use other people's opinions to order me to change my opinion? LMAO

 

Did you also just use Metacritics as a factual source instead of the opinion source it actually is? LMAO

So the "truth" is only in your head then? Ok, glad we got that sorted.

 

Now carry on spewing your usual BS and lies.

[Volourn]

So, you allow others to tell you what games you like? You must like every BIO game then, and prefer DA2 to AP since overall, it got higher ratings than AP. Don't you see how silly your trolling MC in this thread was? Weak sauce, man, weak sauce. grow a backbone and stand by your opinions. Only one lying here is you.

Edited October 15, 2011 by Volourn

[Morgoth]

It's that time again....

 

Obsidian - The Awesome, the good, the bad, the ugly:

 

The Awesome:

Fallout New Vegas

NWN2: MotB

 

The Good:

Kotor 2

Alpha Protocol

NWN2

 

The Bad:

Dungeon Siege 3

 

The Ugly:

NWN2: SoZ

 

 

Bioware:

 

The Awesome:

Baldur's Gate 2

Mass Effect 2

 

The good:

BG1

Kotor 1

JE

DA:O+A

DAII

ME1

 

The bad:

-

The ugly:

-

 

 

R00fles!

[Gorth]

I'm beginning to think there is no hope for this thread...