MonkeyLungs plays the demo ... yeah who the f cares.

[MonkeyLungs]

Obsidian makes some really awesome games. There are some legendary developers at that studio that worked on games near and dear to many many rpg super nerds. That said I'm quite stunned at some of the design choices for DS3.

 

My quick thoughts from the demo:

1. Pretty cool menu design in terms of artwork but where is the paper doll for the equipment screen? Would have been nice to have one to see armor changes on the character right there in the inventory.

2. Corridor maps? Really guys?

3. I'm on the fence with combat. I didn't play enough to get a real sense for it.

4. Multiplayer: The design philosophy surrounding MP in DS3 is appalling to me. I think the game should have had couch co-op only and no online multiplayer.

5. I wish the protagonist didn't have a voice actor for dialogue. Maybe just for making comments while walking about etc. I don't really need to hear my character talk. I realize this is the way of the new s*** though.

6. Graphics = mediocre and environments seem to be corridor maps. Graphics not such a big deal to me, for me gameplay > graphics. However, world design is intrinsicly tied to gameplay so corridor maps are a downer. This won't matter if the dungeons are Pro.

 

Lots of things I can't comment on because I have no knowledge of the full game, just the demo.

 

My verdict on this title is going to rest on a few key elements:

 

1. The dungeons. I hope they are great with puzzles, traps, secret rooms/pathways, tricks, non combat elements, interactivity.

2. Enemy variety. Hopefully they have some cool enemies and bosses.

3. Loot. The demo is not long enough to accurately judge but I'm getting a bad feeling.

4. C&C. If there are some interesting branching pathways this will be a great plus.

 

Other stuff:

 

--- I wish Obsidian would have got to make Alpha Protocol 2 instead of this game.

--- Corridor maps guys wtf?

--- Sacred 2 is still the champ by a few million lightyears.

--- Don't f*** up Icewind Dale 3.

--- Brayko has a killer soundsystem.

[themo]

"where is the paper doll for the equipment screen? Would have been nice to have one to see armor changes on the character right there in the inventory"

 

I agree. Ds 1 has it; Ds2 has it Diablo has it, %99 of hack n slash games have it then just why did the developers remove it? I really can't understand that. It`s so crticial\important feature for that kind of games I think, if there is no paperdoll for pc version I wont buy the game.

Edited June 2, 2011 by themo

[Flouride]

--- Don't f*** up Icewind Dale 3.

 

They aren't making Icewind Dale 3. They would want to make it though, but it's up to Atari who owns the license.

[Gorth]

--- Don't f*** up Icewind Dale 3.

 

They aren't making Icewind Dale 3. They would want to make it though, but it's up to Atari who owns the license.

Not to mention the dreaded current edition ruleset and setting. Do the Dales even exist anymore?

[Flouride]

--- Don't f*** up Icewind Dale 3.

 

They aren't making Icewind Dale 3. They would want to make it though, but it's up to Atari who owns the license.

Not to mention the dreaded current edition ruleset and setting. Do the Dales even exist anymore?

 

I have no idea. All my D&D knowledge comes from BIS and BioWare games + some old R.A Salvatore books

[MakeMOTB2pls]

Wait, DS open maps (one of the few strong points of the games) are gone and replaced by cramped corridors like in pretty much every console game? For real?

[rafoca]

I

[C2B]

Wait, DS open maps (one of the few strong points of the games) are gone and replaced by cramped corridors like in pretty much every console game? For real?

 

 

Seriously?

 

When in the world had DS open maps? It was a corridor game from the beginning. You mean that everything was on one map? Yeah, thats also the case here. DS was NEVER EVER open world.

Edited June 2, 2011 by C2B

[MonkeyLungs]

The demo maps are quite small. Burning peope is pretty nifty though (in the game).

[Renevent]

Wait, DS open maps (one of the few strong points of the games) are gone and replaced by cramped corridors like in pretty much every console game? For real?

 

 

Seriously?

 

When in the world had DS open maps? It was a corridor game from the beginning. You mean that everything was on one map? Yeah, thats also the case here. DS was NEVER EVER open world.

 

I would never consider DS as a "open world game"...but compared to DS III...I understand what people are complaining about. The game is almost claustrophobic in how restrictive the paths are...it's nothing but corridors for the most part.

 

For reference, here is a map from DS2:

 

http://www.gamebanshee.com/dungeonsiegeii/...eilynjungle.php

 

There was WAY more room to explore, lots of hidden stuff, and it felt much more organic. The hidden stuff wasn't a treasure chest 20 feet from the main corridor (like in DS3) but rather elevators down into small dungeons, trap doors, ect.

 

Maybe DS3 does open up in the full game, but based on my demo experience it's nowhere near as open as the previous games.

Edited June 2, 2011 by Renevent

[Pidesco]

That's still very much a corridor, Renevent.

[Renevent]

That's still very much a corridor, Renevent.

 

No, not really. Those areas are actually pretty open (scale is key to looking at the map). Whole villages, ruins, large fields, farms, ect are in there. Plus like I said earlier the hidden stuff wasn't just a singe chest 20 feet from the road...it was elevators down into a small dungeon...you could go inside most houses...there was many interconnecting paths...ect.

 

It's not open world, but it certainly isn't a corridor like what the DS3 demo shows. Whether or not the full game opens up more is something yet to be seen, but as it stands the complaint is valid.

Edited June 2, 2011 by Renevent

[Pidesco]

While I don't know how the maps will change later on, it should be noted that are towns later on that serve as quest hubs. So, supposedly, things should get a bit more open as the game progresses. I'm guessing it will be something along the lines of branching corridors rather than wide open areas, though.

[Renevent]

While I don't know how the maps will change later on, it should be noted that are towns later on that serve as quest hubs. So, supposedly, things should get a bit more open as the game progresses. I'm guessing it will be something along the lines of branching corridors rather than wide open areas, though.

 

I think you are correct in that in will be basically branching corridors rather than open areas. You kinda see a little of that in the demo...there are a few places that you can't go in the demo which seem to branch off a bit.

[Pidesco]

Incidentally, I think the abundance of corridors in DS3 and in many current games is actually a problem with devs creating areas that the 360 and the PS3 can render without seriously scaling down the graphics.

 

See for example GTAIV or Risen for examples of what happens when you take an open ended game and scale it back to perform acceptably on the consoles.

[C2B]

That's still very much a corridor, Renevent.

 

No, not really. Those areas are actually pretty open (scale is key to looking at the map). Whole villages, ruins, large fields, farms, ect are in there. Plus like I said earlier the hidden stuff wasn't just a singe chest 20 feet from the road...it was elevators down into a small dungeon...you could go inside most houses...there was many interconnecting paths...ect.

 

It's not open world, but it certainly isn't a corridor like what the DS3 demo shows. Whether or not the full game opens up more is something yet to be seen, but as it stands the complaint is valid.

 

Its a corridor. And not more open. At all. Also there is still entire villages (as shown in the demo) you can still go into houses (also shown in preview material) and so on. I've also played through this map just to say. If you believe it or not.

Edited June 2, 2011 by C2B

[Renevent]

Well I'm primarily a PC gamer so my opinion of concessions like that due to console limitation isn't positive to begin with.

 

BUT...

 

I don't think that's the case here. The graphics aren't that amazing and I've played plenty of games on the consoles with open levels (or at least much more so that DS3).

 

My personal opinion is this is a design choice intended to keep the player on the right track and push the story forward. This kind of philosophy seems everywhere in the game...they don't want the player making mistakes, getting lost, ect...it's a different kind of game.

 

That's still very much a corridor, Renevent.

 

No, not really. Those areas are actually pretty open (scale is key to looking at the map). Whole villages, ruins, large fields, farms, ect are in there. Plus like I said earlier the hidden stuff wasn't just a singe chest 20 feet from the road...it was elevators down into a small dungeon...you could go inside most houses...there was many interconnecting paths...ect.

 

It's not open world, but it certainly isn't a corridor like what the DS3 demo shows. Whether or not the full game opens up more is something yet to be seen, but as it stands the complaint is valid.

 

Its a corridor. And not more open. At all. Also there is still entire villages (as shown in the demo) you can still go into houses (also shown in preview material) and so on. I've also played through this map just to say. If you believe it or not.

 

The areas were wider and had more space. Fact.

 

There were more branching routes and interconnecting areas. Fact.

 

The hidden areas actually opened up into mini dungeons and some actually had exits in entirely new areas...not just a treasure chest 20 feet from the road.

 

Now, maybe the full game opens up but as it stands no, DS3 (the demo) is not as open as the original games.

Edited June 2, 2011 by Renevent

[Gfted1]

My personal opinion is this is a design choice intended to keep the player on the right track and push the story forward. This kind of philosophy seems everywhere in the game...they don't want the player making mistakes, getting lost, ect...it's a different kind of game.

 

 

I wonder if it has anything to do with the tethered co-op. Two players tethered is painful enough, I can only imagine four players being tethered is like herding cats. So by making everything a hallway players have no choice but to all proceed in the same direction.

[C2B]

The areas were wider and had more space. Fact.

 

There were more branching routes and interconnecting areas. Fact.

 

The hidden areas actually opened up into mini dungeons and some actually had exits in entirely new areas...not just a treasure chest 20 feet from the road.

 

Now, maybe the full game opens up but as it stands no, DS3 (the demo) is not as open as the original games.

 

1. No, they were not. Actually, what are you even comparing it too? The largest areas in DsI/II? There are several spots in the first two DS games that were even closer together in the demo. Same for your second and thrid point.

 

2. Unable to say of a demo that CLEARLY closed of areas.

Edited June 2, 2011 by C2B

[Renevent]

The areas were wider and had more space. Fact.

 

There were more branching routes and interconnecting areas. Fact.

 

The hidden areas actually opened up into mini dungeons and some actually had exits in entirely new areas...not just a treasure chest 20 feet from the road.

 

Now, maybe the full game opens up but as it stands no, DS3 (the demo) is not as open as the original games.

 

1. No, they were not. Actually, what are you even comparing it too? The largest areas in DsI/II? There are several spots in the first two DS games that were even closer together in the demo. Same for your second and thrid point.

 

2. Unable to say of a demo that CLEARLY closed of areas.

 

No, I am comparing it to the very first map. The difference is even worse if you look at some of the other larger maps (like azunite desert) in DS.

 

Honestly, you are either ignorant or dishonest. I've already provided the proof...discussion is over.

 

The only thing left is whether or not the full game opens up a great deal (not just talking more branching) and if there will also be a nice amount of side dungeons/secret areas/ect.

Edited June 2, 2011 by Renevent

[C2B]

No, I am comparing it to the very first map. The difference is even worse if you look at some of the other larger maps (like azunite desert) in DS.

 

Honestly, you are either ignorant or dishonest. I've already provided the proof...discussion is over.

 

Well, then we didn't play the same games apparently. Because my experience of said "very first map" was different.

 

Anyway, yeah. Discussion over if you want.

 

Edit: Clarifing here: The first area also had bigger points in it I'll give you that. But smaller too and I didn't really notice more (less actually) stuff than in the DS demo.

Edited June 2, 2011 by C2B

[Renevent]

No, I am comparing it to the very first map. The difference is even worse if you look at some of the other larger maps (like azunite desert) in DS.

 

Honestly, you are either ignorant or dishonest. I've already provided the proof...discussion is over.

 

Well, then we didn't play the same games apparently. Because my experience of said "very first map" was different.

 

I played DS2 and the DS3 demo, not sure what game you were playing. I also posted a picture which conclusively shows what I am talking aboutso your "experience" and what you remember means exactly zilch.

 

"But smaller too and I didn't really notice more (less actually) stuff than in the DS demo. "

 

Really? There were hidden underground side dungeons in the demo? Enemy villages? Elevators down to secret chests?

 

The fact you are even pretending there was MORE stuff in the DS3 demo is f'in ridiculous. Why am I am being a "douche-bag" towards you? It's because I rarely deal with people so intellectually dishonest such as yourself.

Edited June 2, 2011 by Renevent

[C2B]

No, I am comparing it to the very first map. The difference is even worse if you look at some of the other larger maps (like azunite desert) in DS.

 

Honestly, you are either ignorant or dishonest. I've already provided the proof...discussion is over.

 

Well, then we didn't play the same games apparently. Because my experience of said "very first map" was different.

 

I played DS2 and the DS3 demo, not sure what game you were playing. I also posted a picture which conclusively shows what I am talking about as well so your "experience" and what you remember means exactly zilch.

 

No.

 

Also I can say the same thing for both of us. Zilch. Don't act so high and mighty.

Edited June 2, 2011 by C2B

[Renevent]

No you can't, because I actually posted proof

Edited June 2, 2011 by Renevent

[C2B]

No you can't, because I actually posted proof

 

Thers a difference in how a map is built and presented regarding the available space and perception of the user. You posted a map of a corridor. Nothing else in relevance to the actual size or how its structured or what sense of scale it uses.

 

Proof can be looked at very differently from person to person. Zilch.

 

Edit: Actually we went away from the point I originally wanted to make. I give up before I'm just saying things I don't want to. Feel mighty if you want.

Edited June 2, 2011 by C2B