Canadian Election

[Oerwinde]

Anyone other Canadians on here following the election?

 

I think its sad how well the Conservatives are polling considering how much they've been screwing up, how much is coming to light in terms of their association with criminals in key areas of the party, as well as their constant use of attack ads that most canadians claim to hate.

 

I mean the Liberals got taken down by a scandal that cost taxpayers 18 million, 4 million by the scandal and 14 million for the investigation, the conservatives have multiple members under investigation for electoral fraud, they prorogued parliament twice in order to avoid discussing issues damaging to the party (or to avoid the opposition forming a coalition government). They were found in contempt of parliament once and were under investigation for a second count but that ended due to an election being called after the government fell on the first count of contempt. Their campaign is almost entirely about the horrors of a Liberal-NDP coalition, despite that being an entirely acceptable outcome in the constitution and in fact several of our allies have coalition governments, while the other parties are campaigning based on what they want to do for the country.

 

Yet they still have a major lead in the polls, even in major left leaning areas. And what appears to be the major sticking point for most canadians on why they are going to vote Conservative? The Liberal leader took teaching positions in Harvard and Oxford and so he was away from the country for years.

 

I was hoping Canadians weren't so stupid.

[Walsingham]

well, I'm not Canadian, but I have many friends and colleagues from there. Can you give 'us' a context brief, Oerwinde?

[Volourn]

"I think its sad how well the Conservatives are polling considering how much they've been screwing up, how much is coming to light in terms of their association with criminals in key areas of the party, as well as their constant use of attack ads that most canadians claim to hate."

 

You said it yourself, Liberals are full of criminals too. They also have a habit of using attack ads. On top of that, as much of a prick Harper can be that stupid Ignatiff or whatever guy is 10x worse.

 

On top ofm this, while things aren't perfect, the Conservatives have done a decent job as a minority gov't. I used to be Liberal only voter but they lost that vote with their scumminess. It'll be decades before I even think of voting Liberal again. NDP has potential though.

 

Don't forget, btw, this election is occuring ebcause the Liberals pushed for it. The NDP didn't really want it. And, the Liberals have been pushing for an election ever since the Conservatives won the last time.

 

P.S. As for the contempt charges, while there is likely some truth to them, it is so mixed up in politics, it's hard to take seriously.

 

The only Kanadians being stupid are the ones buying the garbage spouted by the evil Liberal party.

[Oerwinde]

well, I'm not Canadian, but I have many friends and colleagues from there. Can you give 'us' a context brief, Oerwinde?

 

The Conservatives were elected to a minority government based on a promise to clean up Ottawa after the Liberal sponsorship scandal as well as improving democracy by instituting an elected senate etc. What they;ve done has erode the democratic process by proroguing parliament (shutting it down, ending the session and killing any legislation still in committee) in order to stifle any discussion of the Afghanistan detainee scandal (Con officials had canadian troops hand over detainees in Afghanistan to be tortured), while prorogued, stacking the senate with conservative appointees, who then killed any legislation that passed in the house of commons because the opposition parties hold a majority of seats in the house. Several conservatives were found to have violated electoral spending limits, which amounts to electoral fraud. The conservatives then vowed to eliminate per vote party subsidies which gives $2 per vote to political parties, this would leave the Cons in a much better position to launch a campaign as their fundraising ability outmaches all the other parties. This was the last straw and Opposition parties united to bring down the government and establish a coalition government, instead the Cons prorogued parliament again so the vote couldn't pass and spend the prorogation period on an ad campaign calling a coalition undemocratic because it didn't include his party which recieved the most seats (32%). When they came back the word "coalition" had suffered a black eye from the Con's media campaign. It was pretty quiet from then on until one of the Con ministers changed the wording of a comittee document after it had been agreed upon, effectively having the comittee agree to the opposite of that which they agreed to. That began the initial contempt charge. Then the comittee debating a Con crime bill asked for the cost projections of the bill. The cons refused to provide them repeatedly. 2nd contempt charge. The government then fell on a confidence motion on the passage of the contempt charge. During their reign they have ran media campaign after media campaign of attack ads attacking the other parties and their leaders, as well as using government funds to promote thier party. They even had official documents replace "Government of Canada" with "Harper Government"

 

The Liberals are accusing the Cons of excessive spending on things Canada doesn't need or want. 35 billion on stealth fighter jets which there was no bidding process for, 14 billion on US style megaprisons, etc. We do need new Jets, but 35 billion with no bidding process is silly.

 

Harper is still going on about the "Reckless coalition" despite the current Liberal leader not supporting the coalition at the time it was proposed and denying it multiple times now.

[Walsingham]

Good God.

 

Not really selling the whole coalition government thing.

[Malcador]

Ah, figures Volourn is a Tory. Rural Canada , heh . It's amusing to see Harper's campaign though, endless fear mongering. Mind you, a minority government for any party would work best.

Edited April 5, 2011 by Malcador

[Volourn]

"Ah, figures Volourn is a Tory."

 

Nope. I'm a former liberal who has no party loyalty now.

[Oerwinde]

Good God.

 

Not really selling the whole coalition government thing.

 

To put it into perspective, the Conservatives had 32% support of the electorate after the last election, The Liberals, NDP, and Bloc Quebecois had a combined 60% support. So a coalition government would have been representative of 60% of Canadians rather than 32%. Harper deemed this undemocratic. He's also gone on record in the past saying a coalition government is a viable option to bring down the Liberals back when the Liberals had a minority government, so his nickname of Harpercrite is well earned.

[Blarghagh]

I don't know much about Canadian politics but I keep hearing complaints on how very, very racist they are. I hear anything not white is not seen as Canadian, like the fourth generation Canadians who were killed in the Phillipines Hostage Situation only being referred to as "Hong Kong natives with Canadian Passports" so the government could distance itself from the situation.

[Guard Dog]

So to summarize the liberals were thrown out for corruption and replaced with a coalition led by the conservatives with a promise to clean up corruption. Now they are being thrown out for corruption. Does any of this actually suprise anyone?

[WILL THE ALMIGHTY]

I get to vote this year, but honestly my only goal is to not vote for Harper (for reasons stated above), or for the Liberals (let's face it, they'll eventually screw up as much), or for the Bloc (even if I'm from Qu

[Walsingham]

I had been thinking and talking about moving to Canada. But you chaps are making me wonder if it's not jumping from the frying pan into the moose fire.

[Gfted1]

Come to the US instead. We'll have a few beers and fire wildly into the air while the country crashes and burns. Then we can all move to Canada.

[Morgoth]

But they all murder innocent seals there!

 

[Volourn]

No. I live in Kanada and have never even seen a seal.

[Malcador]

I don't know much about Canadian politics but I keep hearing complaints on how very, very racist they are. I hear anything not white is not seen as Canadian, like the fourth generation Canadians who were killed in the Phillipines Hostage Situation only being referred to as "Hong Kong natives with Canadian Passports" so the government could distance itself from the situation.

 

I wouldn't say the politics, but Canadians are at best, slightly xenophobic, it seems. Always hear some WASP whining about all these dirty foreigners that refuse to adopt Canadian culture. Which is beer and hockey, heh. Not quite to the level of some BNP-esque party, but getting there

[kirottu]

I mean the Liberals got taken down by a scandal that cost taxpayers 18 million, 4 million by the scandal and 14 million for the investigation,

 

No matter the country, the government is always the same, eh?

Edited April 5, 2011 by kirottu

[Humodour]

The Canadian election isn't even worth bothering with.

 

Last election you guys held, the Conservatives secured only something like 35% or 40% of the vote, yet got elected. What that meant was that collectively about 60% or more of Canadians voted for the various centrist and left parties (Bloc, NDP, Greens, Liberals, etc) but due to a rather **** electoral system which is entirely NOT designed to handle a multiparty system, the party which most Canadians voters did not prefer got in.

 

This could all be fixed by just adding preferences (you don't need to switch to proportional voting or anything, but at least make the damn elections fair).

 

And don't even get more started on your upper house.

Edited April 5, 2011 by Krezack

[WILL THE ALMIGHTY]

The Canadian election isn't even worth bothering with.

 

Last election you guys held, the Conservatives secured only something like 35% or 40% of the vote, yet got elected. What that meant was that collectively about 60% or more of Canadians voted for the various centrist and left parties (Bloc, NDP, Greens, Liberals, etc) but due to a rather **** electoral system which is entirely NOT designed to handle a multiparty system, the party which most Canadians voters did not prefer got in.

 

This could all be fixed by just adding preferences (you don't need to switch to proportional voting or anything, but at least make the damn elections fair).

 

And don't even get more started on your upper house.

 

This is why there's been talk of coalition, and why Harper is scared to death in might happen.

 

Speaking of Harper...

and

.

 

Sometimes it's just incredibly dumb.

Edited April 5, 2011 by WILL THE ALMIGHTY

[Oerwinde]

In regards to the Xenophobia, here's a Liberal rebuttal ad to the Conservative ones

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dx8Q-9EWz3E

 

And for reference, heres the conservative party's Youtube channel with all their ads

http://www.youtube.com/user/cpcpcc

And the liberal's

http://www.youtube.com/user/liberalvideo

NDP

http://www.youtube.com/user/NDPCanada

Greens

http://www.youtube.com/user/canadiangreenparty

[Morgoth]

[Walsingham]

BTW, over the years I've received the impression that Canada is teh most commmitted nation, per capita, in support of UN combat missions. Is that true, and will that continue given recent upheavals?

[Oerwinde]

BTW, over the years I've received the impression that Canada is teh most commmitted nation, per capita, in support of UN combat missions. Is that true, and will that continue given recent upheavals?

 

I'm not sure if thats true, it might be so but I'm not sure. I would assume it would continue, our status as a peacekeeping nation is pretty important to a lot of Canadians. The first peacekeeping mission being our baby, its a point of national pride. I know Canadians have been in command positions in quite a few UN and NATO missions in the last few decades.

[Calax]

See, I always saw Canada as a sort of "Wot? We have a government?" type given how little is hears about it (of course part of that is living in the US, but even here we heard about the British PM elections).

 

It seems like harper (or who ever he is) might be making a grab for a more... long term power given just how much manipulation he's pulling off. Honestly, that level of "mad power grab" makes me kinda happy right now the two biggest abuses in the US are the Union issues in Wisconsin and the budget.

[Walsingham]

I am fully aware that I am dreadfully biased, but these shenanigans see to me merely illustrative of the kind of bull which happens in a coalition system. First past the post may deliver governments which push through unpopular measures on inflated majorities, but it also has a tendency to deliver great bloodletting when parties get out of hand, stripping them of all semblance of power for at least one term.

 

I should also point out that I don't know how Canadians are elected, but I figure I may as well be honest in my ignorant hateful opinions.