Zeitgeist

[Darth InSidious]

Isn't that the crazy conspiracy theory stuff?

 

Basically. Unless they've totally overhauled the 'documentary' then, yes, it's a few facts, often exaggerated, that were mixed with a lot of fiction, conjecture, and editing - something that resulted in nothing more and nothing less than a perfect example of how conspiracy theories become popular and 'respectable.'

 

This. It's whole intellectual underpinning - if one can credit such a specious mountain of manipulative trash with such a thing - is a farrago of eighth-rate pseudointellectual nonsense, starting with archaeology on the level of books with titles like Jesus, Last of the Pharaohs* before moving on to cheap economic conspiracy theories.

 

Isn't that the crazy conspiracy theory stuff?

 

Basically. Unless they've totally overhauled the 'documentary' then, yes, it's a few facts, often exaggerated, that were mixed with a lot of fiction, conjecture, and editing - something that resulted in nothing more and nothing less than a perfect example of how conspiracy theories become popular and 'respectable.'

 

 

Yeah, but only the first doc, but it's only the points about 9/11

Uh, no. The entire first part of the documentary - and I mean practically every single word - is bunkum. I'm going to focus on the first part in particular, because it treads on my patch academically and therefore sets off my bull**** detectors like nothing else.

 

In fact, the only part of the Zeitgeist movement I would give any credit to is the idea that there is a conspiracy. There is indeed a conspiracy - a conspiracy of out-and-out cynics like "Dorothy Murdock"/Acharya S** and others of their ilk to write specious, pseudo-archaeological nonsense which is designed to prey on your ignorance to deceive you. And, of course, make some cash.

 

I used to have a list of several sites with debunkings of Zeitgeist on 'em, but I seem to have lost it. This one comes up fairly high, though, and seems pretty academically OK:

http://conspiracyscience.com/articles/zeitgeist/

 

There's also this one and Prof John Stackhouse's refutation, both of which look to be p. kosher.

 

Zeitgeist, to be brief, does indeed belong to the wacko conspiracy bull**** end of the spectrum. If it's author is now trying to sell it as a way of life, I can only see it as a switch of tack by an out-and-out cynic, desperately seeking either fame or fortune. Peter Joseph is a con-man. That he preys on the ignorance of others rather than their stupidity does not make him any less reprehensible.

 

*Yes, such a book does indeed exist. Yes, it's a load of bull**** less credible than a flat earth. Yes, lots of people buy into this ****, anyway. Go wiki-search the Priory of Sion while you're about it.

 

**Don't bother looking her up. Her site when I checked it out consisted of a load of adverts for her BS books, and an article consisting of 15 or so pages of ranting about how mainstream academe had ignored her (gee, wonder why...) and repeated use of the same highly selective quote from Justin Martyr. Here's a good little page on her gibberings: http://www.tektonics.org/af/achy01.html . An example, in the form of a quote that website gives from Acharya S' book, attempting to conflate Mark the evangelist with the early Christian thinker Marcion:

"...legend held that Mark wrote his gospel in Rome and brought it to Alexandria, where he established churches, while Marcion purportedly published his gospel in Rome and no doubt went to Alexandria at some point."

[GreasyDogMeat]

Isn't that the crazy conspiracy theory stuff?

 

Basically. Unless they've totally overhauled the 'documentary' then, yes, it's a few facts, often exaggerated, that were mixed with a lot of fiction, conjecture, and editing - something that resulted in nothing more and nothing less than a perfect example of how conspiracy theories become popular and 'respectable.'

 

This. It's whole intellectual underpinning - if one can credit such a specious mountain of manipulative trash with such a thing - is a farrago of eighth-rate pseudointellectual nonsense, starting with archaeology on the level of books with titles like Jesus, Last of the Pharaohs* before moving on to cheap economic conspiracy theories.

 

Isn't that the crazy conspiracy theory stuff?

 

Basically. Unless they've totally overhauled the 'documentary' then, yes, it's a few facts, often exaggerated, that were mixed with a lot of fiction, conjecture, and editing - something that resulted in nothing more and nothing less than a perfect example of how conspiracy theories become popular and 'respectable.'

 

 

Yeah, but only the first doc, but it's only the points about 9/11

Uh, no. The entire first part of the documentary - and I mean practically every single word - is bunkum. I'm going to focus on the first part in particular, because it treads on my patch academically and therefore sets off my bull**** detectors like nothing else.

 

In fact, the only part of the Zeitgeist movement I would give any credit to is the idea that there is a conspiracy. There is indeed a conspiracy - a conspiracy of out-and-out cynics like "Dorothy Murdock"/Acharya S** and others of their ilk to write specious, pseudo-archaeological nonsense which is designed to prey on your ignorance to deceive you. And, of course, make some cash.

 

I used to have a list of several sites with debunkings of Zeitgeist on 'em, but I seem to have lost it. This one comes up fairly high, though, and seems pretty academically OK:

http://conspiracyscience.com/articles/zeitgeist/

 

There's also this one and Prof John Stackhouse's refutation, both of which look to be p. kosher.

 

Zeitgeist, to be brief, does indeed belong to the wacko conspiracy bull**** end of the spectrum. If it's author is now trying to sell it as a way of life, I can only see it as a switch of tack by an out-and-out cynic, desperately seeking either fame or fortune. Peter Joseph is a con-man. That he preys on the ignorance of others rather than their stupidity does not make him any less reprehensible.

 

*Yes, such a book does indeed exist. Yes, it's a load of bull**** less credible than a flat earth. Yes, lots of people buy into this ****, anyway. Go wiki-search the Priory of Sion while you're about it.

 

**Don't bother looking her up. Her site when I checked it out consisted of a load of adverts for her BS books, and an article consisting of 15 or so pages of ranting about how mainstream academe had ignored her (gee, wonder why...) and repeated use of the same highly selective quote from Justin Martyr. Here's a good little page on her gibberings: http://www.tektonics.org/af/achy01.html . An example, in the form of a quote that website gives from Acharya S' book, attempting to conflate Mark the evangelist with the early Christian thinker Marcion:

"...legend held that Mark wrote his gospel in Rome and brought it to Alexandria, where he established churches, while Marcion purportedly published his gospel in Rome and no doubt went to Alexandria at some point."

Life is too short to waste on this crap. It also does harm to any truth used to propagate the bs conspiracy. The sky is blue & THE GOVERNMENT BLEW UP THE 9-11 BUILDINGS. Right... sure they did, and I bet the sky is blue too you nut!

[Wrath of Dagon]

Personally I live my life according to the Necronomicon.

[Rosbjerg]

snip..

 

The first segment was about religion and most would probably agree, since what they guy is saying is that Jesus is a mythical figure and that all religions can trace their origins back to sun worship. This isn't a conspiracy (at least not in my book), saying that the government blew up the twin towers however, most certainly is. So there are elements and I don't like those - but I don't want to shoot down everything because of some stupidity/frustration/etc. The 3rd segment was about money however and this is where it gets interesting for me at least - even if you think they are being wackos, when they say that the monetary system has to go, you gotta agree that the idea of infinite growth, which seems to be the idea of the day and age, is not only irresponsible, but also dangerous? Sure, we can work it out while keeping money around, but this concept of never-ending consumption.. that's gotta go!

 

That was the message I took away from seeing it.. that and the society based on science, but ending this ever increasing consumption is probably more feasible in the short term.

 

Personally I live my life according to the Necronomicon.

 

Smart man..

[Monte Carlo]

The problem with Utopians of any stripe or political hue is that they are all, quintessentially, authoritarian.

 

So I say No.

Edited February 2, 2011 by Monte Carlo

[Walsingham]

The problem with Utopians of any stripe or political hue is that they are all, quintessentially, authoritarian.

 

So I say No.

 

I agree. I demand the freedom to be a screwup! Hurrah!

[Hurlshort]

Personally I live my life according to the Necronomicon.

 

Klaatu Verratta Necktie!

[Orogun01]

Personally I live my life according to the Necronomicon.

 

Klaatu Verratta Necktie!

Oh damn y....

[bigcrazewolf]

Another good option we all could just convert an be Amish it's also a very environmentally friendly lifestyle as well.

[Calax]

Another good option we all could just convert an be Amish it's also a very environmentally friendly lifestyle as well.

You go Amish and (assuming you get in) you'll have a mate pretty quick given their current genetic issues (basically they've got such a small population in certain contained areas that they're running into accidental inbreedings).

[GreasyDogMeat]

Another good option we all could just convert an be Amish it's also a very environmentally friendly lifestyle as well.

No more video games then. You might be able to sneak a little hand held system in, but then you'd be hiding in the outhouse praying no one finds you. One day they would catch you and you would hide the game in horror, as if your parents had just walked in on you with a dirty mag and they would kick your tainted butt out.

 

It just wouldn't work.

[Walsingham]

Idea for a game there: Grand Theft Amish.

[Rosbjerg]

I personally find the Venus Project a little more interesting in that regard - an emphasis on technology also means that people will have more free time and therefore more games.. what's not to like?

[Walsingham]

I personally find the Venus Project a little more interesting in that regard - an emphasis on technology also means that people will have more free time and therefore more games.. what's not to like?

This rather presumes the Judaeo Christian notion that paradise is no work. Hence the ejection from Eden to a world of toil. But I like working. I happen to think it's essential to mental and physical health!

[Rosbjerg]

I personally find the Venus Project a little more interesting in that regard - an emphasis on technology also means that people will have more free time and therefore more games.. what's not to like?

This rather presumes the Judaeo Christian notion that paradise is no work. Hence the ejection from Eden to a world of toil. But I like working. I happen to think it's essential to mental and physical health!

 

They don't advocate that you shouldn't work - society still needs to keep running, which requires participation, but the goal is rather to advance humanity as a whole as well as you, instead of a boss and a pay check.

[Nightshape]

Idea for a game there: Grand Theft Amish.

 

I'm starting work on it right now lolz

[Orogun01]

I personally find the Venus Project a little more interesting in that regard - an emphasis on technology also means that people will have more free time and therefore more games.. what's not to like?

This rather presumes the Judaeo Christian notion that paradise is no work. Hence the ejection from Eden to a world of toil. But I like working. I happen to think it's essential to mental and physical health!

 

They don't advocate that you shouldn't work - society still needs to keep running, which requires participation, but the goal is rather to advance humanity as a whole as well as you, instead of a boss and a pay check.

Seems rather naive, the monetary system works because of the reward(money). It's classical conditioning at it's best, so how are they going to keep workers motivated? The problem with idealists is that they forget the reality of living and held everything to an impossible standard, I doubt that the majority of the population will work for dreams and hopes.

[Nightshape]

I personally find the Venus Project a little more interesting in that regard - an emphasis on technology also means that people will have more free time and therefore more games.. what's not to like?

This rather presumes the Judaeo Christian notion that paradise is no work. Hence the ejection from Eden to a world of toil. But I like working. I happen to think it's essential to mental and physical health!

 

They don't advocate that you shouldn't work - society still needs to keep running, which requires participation, but the goal is rather to advance humanity as a whole as well as you, instead of a boss and a pay check.

Seems rather naive, the monetary system works because of the reward(money). It's classical conditioning at it's best, so how are they going to keep workers motivated? The problem with idealists is that they forget the reality of living and held everything to an impossible standard, I doubt that the majority of the population will work for dreams and hopes.

 

I would program for free... Because I enjoy programming.

 

I'm pretty sure Artists enjoy making are art, and musicians music.

 

I don't believe the monetary system works, but I do believe it provides incentives which results in one trading time, for money, doing some menial unfun, usually crap task.

 

Some people wouldn't do anything productive, but those people don't do anything productive now, they just drain the system.

 

Regardless anyways, You've clearly not watched it, so can you really comment?

 

Nothing irks me so much as opinions based on ignorance.

[Orogun01]

I would program for free... Because I enjoy programming.

 

I'm pretty sure Artists enjoy making are art, and musicians music.

 

I don't believe the monetary system works, but I do believe it provides incentives which results in one trading time, for money, doing some menial unfun, usually crap task.

 

Some people wouldn't do anything productive, but those people don't do anything productive now, they just drain the system.

 

Regardless anyways, You've clearly not watched it, so can you really comment?

 

Nothing irks me so much as opinions based on ignorance.

I did watched it, so be irked with yourself

 

I'm an artist and I enjoy it, as there are millions of people that enjoy their jobs. But our whole way of living is based on the monetary system without it we have no social class, no form of trade, basically every system depends on some way on money. Going back to the job; as an artist I enjoy my work most of the time, there are time though where I just do not feel it. Normally I would have to work it out because I'm being paid, it's my job and my living depends on it. Without any monetary system what encourages me to not just up and quit for the day? The same parasites which are draining the system now will propagate.

 

I'm all for finding ways to solve humanity's problems and for it's progress, but Macroeconomics and Microeconomics are worlds apart. You can't expect that there is a universal solution to the world's problems.

Edited February 5, 2011 by Orogun01

[Calax]

Idea for a game there: Grand Theft Amish.

If we stick to the current formula for GTA... you steal buggies, not by force, but by dueling insults like from monkey island. Instead of selling illegal drugs, you sell cell phones, instead of the mafia, it's the quakers.

 

...

 

[bigcrazewolf]

Idea for a game there: Grand Theft Amish.

If we stick to the current formula for GTA... you steal buggies, not by force, but by dueling insults like from monkey island. Instead of selling illegal drugs, you sell cell phones, instead of the mafia, it's the quakers.

 

...

 

 

Or maybe the buggy will goto the fellow with the longest beard

[Guard Dog]

Another good option we all could just convert an be Amish it's also a very environmentally friendly lifestyle as well.

 

Did you ever read any of Al Gores writing? I think he is arguing for a return to feudalisim. You might not be far off!

[WDeranged]

I listened to an interview with this guy a few years ago, Peter Joseph I think is his name, the host (Alex Jones) asked what would happen if this new society encountered a person from outside it's influence, the reply was that they would need re-education, Peter Joseph had a strange insistence on refusing to acknowledge a distinction between good and evil as the concept is inherited from judeo-christian values, which have no place in a modern society.

 

It seems vaguely disturbing to me, there's always someone who thinks they're smarter than you, capable of thinking on a higher level and that because of this they deserve to dictate how you should live, I'm prone to thinking that a 'scientific society' would eventually end up as a dictatorship...maybe I've seen too much sci-fi.

 

I recall the first two videos making some good points, a financial system where the people in control can simply create money with no real world backing is cause for grave concern, our money supply is controlled by groups of people who *gasp* conspire together to retain control of physical wealth using the accepted power of imaginary wealth.

 

I'll give this third video a watch and see what I think.

[Gorth]

It seems vaguely disturbing to me, there's always someone who thinks they're smarter than you, capable of thinking on a higher level and that because of this they deserve to dictate how you should live

That is why we need bigger and better computers so AI systems can make decisions for us

[Walsingham]

It seems vaguely disturbing to me, there's always someone who thinks they're smarter than you, capable of thinking on a higher level and that because of this they deserve to dictate how you should live

That is why we need bigger and better computers so AI systems can make decisions for us

 

I suspect this was already done in my case.

 

And the bastard was QA'd by Bethesda.