"Prohibition has failed"

[Walsingham]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-12005824

 

Didn't I say Bob was a decent lad?

 

"Leaving the drugs market in the hands of criminals causes huge and unnecessary harms to individuals, communities and entire countries, with the poor the hardest hit."

 

Mr Ainsworth said billions of pounds was being spent "without preventing the wide availability of drugs".

 

"It is time to replace our failed war on drugs with a strict system of legal regulation, to make the world a safer, healthier place, especially for our children," he said.

 

"We must take the trade away from organised criminals and hand it to the control of doctors and pharmacists."

Edited December 16, 2010 by Walsingham

[Rosbjerg]

I agree completely - I think drugs are horrible, but I would rather see it in the hands of pharmacies than drug dealers.. sure, the worst of both only care about the money, but at least the pharmacy would be worried about future business.

[Walsingham]

I have heard several very sober people this last year saying we should just buy all the drugs in Afghan, give whatever needs to be given to our own addicts, and give the rest in the form of medicines to Africa where they are desperately short of analgesics. Keeps the Afghan farmers happy, removes the profits from Terry Taliban, and helps sick people.

 

But the real point I don't want to distract from is that prohibition doesn't work, it never has worked, and it never will work.

Edited December 16, 2010 by Walsingham

[Moose]

I nearly had an alcohol addiction because it's so easily available, but luckily alcohol is something easy enough to turn away from. To be honest I'm glad herorine isn't freely available, it would destroy the lives of working class people. As for the people that are willing to break laws to get hold of it - meh. They've abandoned society breaking those laws so why should we care.

[Walsingham]

I nearly had an alcohol addiction because it's so easily available, but luckily alcohol is something easy enough to turn away from. To be honest I'm glad herorine isn't freely available, it would destroy the lives of working class people. As for the people that are willing to break laws to get hold of it - meh. They've abandoned society breaking those laws so why should we care.

 

Fair questions.

 

My answers:

 

1. Alcohol isn't easy to turn away from. IIRC it has a higher recidivism rate than heroin.

 

2. Heroin IS freely available. In some parts of the UK it's cheaper than a pint of beer.

 

3. You should care for the same reason I care: the damage done by organised crime controlling the drug trade is immense. It corrupts our institutions, it diverts policing, it provokes violence.

 

4. If you expand your thinking outwards then you see how millions of people suffer under narco-states and narco-terrorism. Neither of which could exist if supplies of the drug were made available at cost in the way Bob is suggesting. Mexico, Afghanistan, Colombia, Brazil, directly. Other countries suffer as transhipment points.

 

5. All these problems might be acceptable if prohibition stopped most people from getting the drugs. But this is not the case.

[Orogun01]

I agree completely - I think drugs are horrible, but I would rather see it in the hands of pharmacies than drug dealers.. sure, the worst of both only care about the money, but at least the pharmacy would be worried about future business.

Controlled substances in the hand of pharmacies aren't quite controlled. MDMA was sold by pharmacies; by prescription only, until someone called it ecstasy and marketed it as a party drug.

Having drugs in pharmacies just means that the government becomes the dealer not that the problem is over.

[Gfted1]

If you cant beat em, join em.

[Meshugger]

Just end the prohibition already, it's such a waste of taxpayers money. In Ciudad de Juarez there has been 3000 murders this year so far due to the illegal drug trade. That's 300% more than all murders in Sweden one year.

[Orogun01]

Yeah but Sweden is like chocolate: sweet, and you are talking about hardcore american conflicts. We actually kill people over here.

[pmp10]

If you cant beat em, join em.

If you can't stop it - tax it.

I wonder how much license for murder should cost?

[Orogun01]

If you cant beat em, join em.

If you can't stop it - tax it.

I wonder how much license for murder should cost?

Depends on who you are going to murder, rates are higher for political figures and children

[Gorgon]

Life is choices, in my mind drugs that are particularly dangerous such as PCP and Chrystal Meth should still be illegal, everything else that can be taken in moderation without affecting your health should be legal. Alcohol and Cigarettes became allowed more by historical accident than design anyway.

[Meshugger]

Yeah but Sweden is like chocolate: sweet, and you are talking about hardcore american conflicts. We actually kill people over here.

 

I tried to appeal to your yanks' sense of decency, but alas, i failed.

[Orogun01]

Yeah but Sweden is like chocolate: sweet, and you are talking about hardcore american conflicts. We actually kill people over here.

 

I tried to appeal to your yanks' sense of decency, but alas, i failed.

yank's sense of decency? What the hell are you talking about?

[Rostere]

Taxation of drugs, the solution to the economic crisis of (most of) the Western world. How come no one thought of this before?

[Aram]

It's a good idea all around, but far to big a change to bring about in a country as incapable of change as ours.

 

We can't even legalize marijuana, and it's relatively harmless.

Edited December 17, 2010 by Aram

[mkreku]

Just end the prohibition already, it's such a waste of taxpayers money. In Ciudad de Juarez there has been 3000 murders this year so far due to the illegal drug trade. That's 300% more than all murders in Sweden one year.

I have no idea how you count, but we have ~100 murders per year in Sweden. 3000 is 30 times more than 100, not 3 times more.

[Guard Dog]

Yes, legalize, regulate and tax it. It's a win all around. Of course, if certain jobs require clean drug tests to get and keep them, thats ok too.

[Meshugger]

Just end the prohibition already, it's such a waste of taxpayers money. In Ciudad de Juarez there has been 3000 murders this year so far due to the illegal drug trade. That's 300% more than all murders in Sweden one year.

I have no idea how you count, but we have ~100 murders per year in Sweden. 3000 is 30 times more than 100, not 3 times more.

 

I missed a zero

[Walsingham]

Actually, pmp10 it's precisely because of serious crimes like murder that I think there's a powerful domestic argument for legalisation under license. At present our overburdened penal system lets murderers and other violent criminals go free just to make space. Decriminalise drugs and we'd have space to keep first order bastards behind bars.

[pmp10]

Actually, pmp10 it's precisely because of serious crimes like murder that I think there's a powerful domestic argument for legalisation under license. At present our overburdened penal system lets murderers and other violent criminals go free just to make space. Decriminalise drugs and we'd have space to keep first order bastards behind bars.

So life-long criminals who traffic drugs, guns and slaves will suddenly get white-collar jobs as pharmaceutical representatives lead exemplar lives and start paying taxes?

Can't say I share that outlook.

[Meshugger]

Actually, pmp10 it's precisely because of serious crimes like murder that I think there's a powerful domestic argument for legalisation under license. At present our overburdened penal system lets murderers and other violent criminals go free just to make space. Decriminalise drugs and we'd have space to keep first order bastards behind bars.

So life-long criminals who traffic drugs, guns and slaves will suddenly get white-collar jobs as pharmaceutical representatives lead exemplar lives and start paying taxes?

Can't say I share that outlook.

 

Who's talking about legalising the slave trade? Armaments dealing is still pretty legal the last time that i checked.

[GreasyDogMeat]

I could see some drugs becoming legalized, but some I'd never be happy to even entertain the idea. Meth in particular. People go absolutely nuts on it, taking their clothes off running madly down the street attacking people. The only positive I could see to legalizing it would be less houses going kaboom with amateur chemists trying to brew it in their basements.

[~Di]

Yes, legalize, regulate and tax it. It's a win all around. Of course, if certain jobs require clean drug tests to get and keep them, thats ok too.

 

This. However, given how difficult it has been to legalize relatively harmless marijuana in "liberal, blue state" of California, I suspect the USA will end up being the last bastion of criminalized drug use on the planet... and still enriching delighted criminal cartels. It's much too sensible to empty out our prisons and court rooms, saving billions upon billions of dollars to ever get by the average cowaring, fear-mongered voter, let alone a government filled with ranting ideologues.

Edited December 18, 2010 by ~Di

[Orogun01]

Yes, legalize, regulate and tax it. It's a win all around. Of course, if certain jobs require clean drug tests to get and keep them, thats ok too.

 

This. However, given how difficult it has been to legalize relatively harmless marijuana in "liberal, blue state" of California, I suspect the USA will end up being the last bastion of criminalized drug use on the planet... and still enriching delighted criminal cartels. It's much too sensible to empty out our prisons and court rooms, saving billions upon billions of dollars to ever get by the average cowaring, fear-mongered voter, let alone a government filled with ranting ideologues.

The one thing needs to be understood about america is that it's a country of opposing extremes. Half the country is for legalization and half is for prohibition, and considering the many drug epidemics that have plagued the US i'm not sure it's a good idea. But then again 2 of those epidemic happened during prohibition so it might not matter.

The big problem is the lack of responsibility, DUI are over the roof and that's mostly with alcohol. If drugs were to be legalized I fear for a spike in traffic accident.