The beginning of the end of specialist retailers?

[Monte Carlo]

I like a physical copy for three reasons:

 

1. I view games in much the same way as I view books. If I like a game I put it on a shelf. It sort of says "these are the games I like, this is the sort of gamer I am." Rational? Probably not. But that's how I feel. Games are a big part of my den, as much as my esoteric collection of tanks, cognac, cigars and movie posters. This is why I am getting into collector's editions.

 

2. Convenience. As others have said, I like to install stuff offline and when I freaking well like and I simply don't trust Steam et.al.

 

3. I'm an old fart, cranky grognard. If I buy something I want to be able to pick it up.

[Monte Carlo]

...as much as my esoteric collection of tanks, cognac, cigars and movie posters.

 

DISCLAIMER - I do not have any real-life armoured fighting vehicles in my den, it simply isn't that big. I do have a pretty big RC Tiger tank and some 1/32 scale AFVs though.

[Mamoulian War]

and i was hoping to see some pictures and "how to"'s about putting complete WWII collection in a living room without scratching furniture...

[ShadySands]

I prefer DD to having a physical copy but I like systems like GOG and D2D over Steam and Impulse. In fact I don't like Steam very much at all and I don't have any real reason for it because none of the things that I dislike about it have ever interfered with me playing a game.

[Nightshape]

2. Convenience. As others have said, I like to install stuff offline and when I freaking well like and I simply don't trust Steam et.al.

 

Interesting... the idea of being offline hadn't occured to me, as afterall I'm perminantly connected regardless of the platform at all times.

[entrerix]

i only like digital for games that are insanely cheap, so if something happens and i can no longer access it, then I'm not out any serious $$. I buy tons of stuff on steam during their sales for a few bucks a piece. Buying a full price game online is terrible and I only do it when the game is JUST THAT GOOD and it requires steamworks anyway. There are probably only 1-2 games a year that are good enough for me to consider paying full price for a digital version

[Humodour]

I've been predicting it...

 

http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2010...s-in-first-half

 

Is that GAME Australia or some other country? You can hardly compare GAME Australia to GAME UK considering the completely different states of the economies of each country for instance (for a start the UK's = **** condition, Australia's = Brilliant condition).

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Game_(retailer)

 

Wikipedia has the information you're looking for.

 

If you're going to respond to me, don't try and be a smarmy bastard with a one-liner Wikipedia link as a reply.

 

The Wikipedia link says NOTHING about how GAME performed in Australia relative to the UK for the same period. You CANNOT draw any causative link between GAME UK's performance as a "specialist retailer" until you've first ruled out regional retail instability or economic gloominess as the cause.

[Nightshape]

I've been predicting it...

 

http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2010...s-in-first-half

 

Is that GAME Australia or some other country? You can hardly compare GAME Australia to GAME UK considering the completely different states of the economies of each country for instance (for a start the UK's = **** condition, Australia's = Brilliant condition).

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Game_(retailer)

 

Wikipedia has the information you're looking for.

 

If you're going to respond to me, don't try and be a smarmy bastard with a one-liner Wikipedia link as a reply.

 

The Wikipedia link says NOTHING about how GAME performed in Australia relative to the UK for the same period. You CANNOT draw any causative link between GAME UK's performance as a "specialist retailer" until you've first ruled out regional retail instability or economic gloominess as the cause.

 

From wikipedia, addressing your initial question which is if the groups are linked:

In September 2006, Game acquired Australian speciality video games retailer Gameswizards and have since rebranded all Gameswizards outlets as Game stores.

 

They seem to be.

 

I obviously don't know about the performance, I haven't claimed so either. I'm also asking a question, please bare that in mind... It could just be economic gloominess, it may be a shift in trends.

 

*sigh*, if you're going to communicate with other people, I recommend your remove your pretentious head from your ass and get a sense of humour. Just a suggestion, feel free to ignore it.

[Humodour]

I've been predicting it...

 

http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2010...s-in-first-half

 

Is that GAME Australia or some other country? You can hardly compare GAME Australia to GAME UK considering the completely different states of the economies of each country for instance (for a start the UK's = **** condition, Australia's = Brilliant condition).

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Game_(retailer)

 

Wikipedia has the information you're looking for.

 

If you're going to respond to me, don't try and be a smarmy bastard with a one-liner Wikipedia link as a reply.

 

The Wikipedia link says NOTHING about how GAME performed in Australia relative to the UK for the same period. You CANNOT draw any causative link between GAME UK's performance as a "specialist retailer" until you've first ruled out regional retail instability or economic gloominess as the cause.

 

From wikipedia, addressing your initial question which is if the groups are linked:

In September 2006, Game acquired Australian speciality video games retailer Gameswizards and have since rebranded all Gameswizards outlets as Game stores.

 

They seem to be.

 

I obviously don't know about the performance, I haven't claimed so either. I'm also asking a question, please bare that in mind... It could just be economic gloominess, it may be a shift in trends.

 

*sigh*, if you're going to communicate with other people, I recommend your remove your pretentious head from your ass and get a sense of humour. Just a suggestion, feel free to ignore it.

 

You are forgiven.

[Maria Caliban]

So I'm really interested in what the specific reason is for desiring a boxed product.

 

 

IMO, its because having a physical copy gives people a feeling of ownership where a digital copy is at the discretion of the supplier. The faux GoG going out of business and the resultant "what about my games" is a good example of this. If we could somehow "own" the digital version I dont think as many people would be adverse to it.

 

 

Also, not everyone has a great internet connection. It took be about 3 hours to download Civ V. I know several people who would have had to wait a week for it. At that point, why not just drive down to the corner Wallmart, Best Buy, or Fry's and pick one up for the same price?

[Humodour]

why not just drive down to the corner Wallmart, Best Buy, or Fry's and pick one up for the same price?

 

Because these stores do not exist in the majority of countries.

 

On a serious note, digital distribution is usually much cheaper, not the same price. Civ 5 is one notable exception here in that the publisher decided to make the online price double what it is for Americans. So we can pay $80 on Steam or $100 in retail stores. In America it's what? $40 to $50 bucks? Either way it's not worth buying in this country.

[Thorton_AP]

Are we only talking about game retail stores here? Cause I think extreme "specialist" stores in general are in trouble & have been for a long time.

 

With any "specialty" retail store, as times/tech/demand & business practices change, the viability of that type of store can change. The game market & tech have changed, what people expect/want is changing...so in terms of retail store game market, yes, I think it's going away. I'm not sure the boxed game is entirely going away...you'll just have to buy it online & have it shipped to you, or do DD. No walking into a store & grabbing it from a shelf.

 

And I also tend to agree that paying the same amount of money for a DD game as we did for a boxed game is a bit of a cheat....but then, I don't know what the related costs of DD are vs. retail store costs. I'd guess less, but how much less I have no idea. For instance, how much of the retail price tag is for the marketing, manufacturing, shipping & other fee type expenses vs the actual game development related costs? Anyway, I don't think big release DD games should be $10-$15 when they first come out, but maybe $40 instead of $50-$60. Assuming it does cost less for a DD only business model, to me that should = less cost to the consumer, not just less cost/more profit to the companies.

 

 

The unfortunate thing is that retailers get pissy if publishers sell their game via DD for less than the retail boxed copy. The retailers themselves don't see a DD option as being less valuable (and hence accepting of a lower price point) than their boxed copy. Or the opposite, if you will: They don't believe that the extras in their boxed copy should result in a higher price than a DD option.

[Thorton_AP]

So I'm really interested in what the specific reason is for desiring a boxed product.

 

 

IMO, its because having a physical copy gives people a feeling of ownership where a digital copy is at the discretion of the supplier. The faux GoG going out of business and the resultant "what about my games" is a good example of this. If we could somehow "own" the digital version I dont think as many people would be adverse to it.

 

 

You can own the GoG games. They are DRM free and there's nothing stopping you from copying them to disc or anything like that.

 

While I can understand the concern with respect to Steam or other DD platforms, complaining "what about my games" with Good Old Games is akin to complaining about buying a game at a store and forgetting to take the boxed copy home with you.

[Nightshape]

complaining about buying a game at a store and forgetting to take the boxed copy home with you.

 

I've done that before, well actually they never gave them to me, that would never have happend with a download. I did go back after I got home, all angry and stuff.

[Thorton_AP]

complaining about buying a game at a store and forgetting to take the boxed copy home with you.

 

I've done that before, well actually they never gave them to me, that would never have happend with a download. I did go back after I got home, all angry and stuff.

 

 

Hahaha that's awesome.

 

But yeah, I saw later that Gifted wasn't fully aware of how GoG's system works. No DRM = copy that installer and do what you want. There's no phoning home at all (which is why I thought that crybabies over the GOG "shutdown" over not getting their games is BS. I screamed "NOOOO" because I <3 GOG, not because I needed games that I already downloaded from them!)

[LadyCrimson]

On a serious note, digital distribution is usually much cheaper, not the same price. Civ 5 is one notable exception here in that the publisher decided to make the online price double what it is for Americans. So we can pay $80 on Steam or $100 in retail stores. In America it's what? $40 to $50 bucks? Either way it's not worth buying in this country.

I've read others complaining of higher non-US prices for some games (even before DD)...I thought some of that maybe had to do with international trading costs or other such considerations but that big a difference is a fair bit extreme...I'd be mad about that too.

The unfortunate thing is that retailers get pissy if publishers sell their game via DD for less than the retail boxed copy. The retailers themselves don't see a DD option as being less valuable (and hence accepting of a lower price point) than their boxed copy. Or the opposite, if you will: They don't believe that the extras in their boxed copy should result in a higher price than a DD option.

I understand they wouldn't like a price difference, since it means the boxed wouldn't sell since most would just go with cheaper. I still don't like it, because I think if it costs less to distribute, that savings should go to the consumer. I'm old fashioned that way. And of course if the entire industry does go entirely DD (no choice), where competing with itself in such a fashion wouldn't even be a factor, the pricing model should definitely change. At least in my "I'm no business expert" opinion.

[Zoraptor]

On a serious note, digital distribution is usually much cheaper, not the same price. Civ 5 is one notable exception here in that the publisher decided to make the online price double what it is for Americans. So we can pay $80 on Steam or $100 in retail stores. In America it's what? $40 to $50 bucks? Either way it's not worth buying in this country.

I've read others complaining of higher non-US prices for some games (even before DD)...I thought some of that maybe had to do with international trading costs or other such considerations but that big a difference is a fair bit extreme...I'd be mad about that too.

Nah, international trading costs is just a rubbish excuse and justification thrown out by publishers. A very large proportions of games sold in Australia get fabricated in Australia so have almost identical costs to games sold in the US which are fabricated in the US. It's all about gouging and while it's not bludgeoning babies for a lollipop it is pretty obnoxious. It's particularly bad now because the AUD (and the NZD to a somewhat lesser extent) have gone up a lot vs the USD.

Edited October 1, 2010 by Zoraptor

[Thorton_AP]

What are sales like in Australia? This is the type of thing where the costs will go down only when those people decide to stop buying the games at their released price.

[Zoraptor]

I don't think anyone outside the publishers/ distributors knows what sales figures are like as there isn't an NPD equivalent so how many shift at full price would be pure speculation. On the reduced price sales front we are fairly well off here (NZ) because parallel importing is OK- I think it's still banned in Aus. I have bought cheap copies of quite a few games which turn out to be parallel imported Eastern European versions and I tend to either buy online (anything ~2 GB or less) or get them for 30-50NZD (~20-35USD) when on retail special for larger titles. There's also various importers that will sell cheap/ approx US cost versions if you don't mind waiting a while and dealing with someone in Singapore who may or may not be of dubious reliability.

 

When online prices aren't localised Australians have it far better as they typically have better internet.

[Irrelevant]

Um, is it bad for publishers if these stores disappear?

On an unrelated note, isn't it bad to say that something is worth less if its older since quality isn't tied to time?

I also like physical versions of stuff because its more convenient as long as I have the copy with me(put in the drive and install, no internet required)

[Nepenthe]

What are sales like in Australia? This is the type of thing where the costs will go down only when those people decide to stop buying the games at their released price.

 

What's taxation like in Australia?

 

Most of Europe gets a 15-25% price hike just from VAT, though. Not saying we aren't shafted, but that's a part of the equation, too...

[Gorth]

What are sales like in Australia? This is the type of thing where the costs will go down only when those people decide to stop buying the games at their released price.

 

What's taxation like in Australia?

 

Most of Europe gets a 15-25% price hike just from VAT, though. Not saying we aren't shafted, but that's a part of the equation, too...

GST (thats Aussie VAT) is 10%.

 

The Kiwis are worse off and just had a GST hike.

 

As for income tax etc. not sure. I think I pay somewhere around 30-33% of my income to the tax man (blood sucker that he is)

[Humanoid]

I buy the vast majority of my games, and stuff for any other of my hobbies, from the UK, and sometimes from other EU nations. The net saving is generally between 50% and 75%. Customs here will not impose any GST/VAT or import duty on any purchases up to the value of $1000AUD (including shipping, but shipping is usually free). I've bought Civ5 for $40AUD flat compared to $100AUD RRP. Similar story for books and cycling gear. (Could even buy a fully assembled bike shipped free and tax-free if I needed to)

 

I don't own any consoles but this works for almost all console titles too as the EU copies will be the same PAL versions sold locally, as opposed to US imports which will often run into compatibility issues.

 

Aside, http://www.steamprices.com/au/topripoffs is fairly enlightening as to showing the degree to which we get milked. That tracks Steam prices only obviously but the same markups apply to retail in general.

 

 

I do stick with boxed copies for any non-trivial purchases (which I'll define arbitrarily for now as those worth more than five bucks), so I can wax nostalgic about them twenty years from now. (I'm waxing nostalgic about my 20-year old copy of Wing Commander now, happy anniversary) The in-vogue thing to do is to buy overseas CD-keys to save even more and play same-day (retailer e-mails you the key, tosses the media, nothing is shipped), but I haven't tried it personally. If the trend towards zero physical documentation continues however I might switch over in time. Oh how I miss the big fat manuals in the big fat boxes of decades past.

 

 

 

Income tax (including Medicare levy) is 31.5% for the block of income from $35,000 to $80,000. Any portion of income below is taxed at a lesser rate and above at a higher rate, but this covers most of the populace.

[Nightshape]

I'm certainly going to have to look into WHY the cost is so... Well ridiculiously different.

[Gorth]

Yeah, $100 (thats $97 USD or 60 British pound) seems to be the "normal" release date price for new games down here. Sort of encourages waiting for sales or buying DD from places with less price gouging.