Afghanistan,

[Wrath of Dagon]

Mubarak is exiting the stage, so Egypt is the next place we need to start worrying about: http://www.gloria-center.org/gloria/2010/1...-war-on-america

[Orogun01]

Mubarak is exiting the stage, so Egypt is the next place we need to start worrying about: http://www.gloria-center.org/gloria/2010/1...-war-on-america

What the Hell? Are we back to the Crusades with these people?

 

I hope we begin some measure of intelligence gathering and undercover work on these groups. Maybe this time the president will actually do something.

[Calax]

Hmmmm, that article is almost purely opinion, and the point you're balancing on doesn't seem to be supported by anything I can find except Hosni Mubarak's age (82).

 

Therefore:

[Zoraptor]

He's almost certain to be succeeded by his son in a North Korean style dynastic succession- undemocratic of course, but AOK when it's someone we like.

 

And the US has been doing extensive work against the Muslim Brotherhood for a long time.

[Orogun01]

He's almost certain to be succeeded by his son in a North Korean style dynastic succession- undemocratic of course, but AOK when it's someone we like.

 

And the US has been doing extensive work against the Muslim Brotherhood for a long time.

Good Good

 

 

[Walsingham]

He's almost certain to be succeeded by his son in a North Korean style dynastic succession- undemocratic of course, but AOK when it's someone we like.

 

And the US has been doing extensive work against the Muslim Brotherhood for a long time.

 

Troo dat. Also, the notion that some middle eastern dingbat saying he hates the Great Satan is news is a little alarming in itself.

 

The really alarming tidbit which should be scaring the trousers off us is that around 100,000 young men come of age in Egypt every year (Ok, I don't remember where I heard this, but it was quite reputable. Unless I was drunk.) and there's not nearly enough jobs for them all. It's just not possible to imagine NO political violence with that many unemployed beefers hoofing around.

[Raithe]

So the big news of the day is about that kidnapped aid worker in Afghan.. and how the US Special Forces tried a raid to rescue her..and accidentally killed her themselves when they threw a grenade in the room.

 

And the papers I had a quick glance at so far.. are purely about the US Soldiers screwing up, and no real heavy/critical points about the actual people who kidnapped her in the first place...

 

While I think it's a bit dangerous in a hostage rescue to be casually throwing grenades around... You'd expect a little more reporting on the kidnappers..

[Humodour]

So... bloody China... making a stupid ass of itself on the world stage as usual.

[Walsingham]

So the big news of the day is about that kidnapped aid worker in Afghan.. and how the US Special Forces tried a raid to rescue her..and accidentally killed her themselves when they threw a grenade in the room.

 

And the papers I had a quick glance at so far.. are purely about the US Soldiers screwing up, and no real heavy/critical points about the actual people who kidnapped her in the first place...

 

While I think it's a bit dangerous in a hostage rescue to be casually throwing grenades around... You'd expect a little more reporting on the kidnappers..

 

I noticed that too. As if hostage rescue is a quiet controlled process and only incompetence can explain the hostage dying. What a bunch of wankers journos are.

[Raithe]

I noticed that too. As if hostage rescue is a quiet controlled process and only incompetence can explain the hostage dying. What a bunch of wankers journos are.

 

To be fair on the families side, they did ask the Americans not to go gung-ho and charge in, because they knew some people that were negotiating for their daughters release.. So I can understand why they're so pissed that the Americans went in anyway..

 

But yes, I'm amazed at the one-sided reporting again.

[Walsingham]

I noticed that too. As if hostage rescue is a quiet controlled process and only incompetence can explain the hostage dying. What a bunch of wankers journos are.

 

To be fair on the families side, they did ask the Americans not to go gung-ho and charge in, because they knew some people that were negotiating for their daughters release.. So I can understand why they're so pissed that the Americans went in anyway..

 

But yes, I'm amazed at the one-sided reporting again.

 

According to the Telegraph the decision to go in was prompted by intelligence suggesting she was about to be moved across the 'border' to Pakistan, and into the hands of a different and more violent group.

 

To the best of my knowledge every manual on special operations warfare is scathing on the topic of political leaders second guessing tactical behaviour. If that is so, how much less helpful is it for civilians to do it?

 

If anyone is interested the best book I've ever read on the topic is by William H. McRaven Special Operations Warfare, Theory and Practice. For what my opinoni is worth, of course!

[Wrath of Dagon]

It does seem strange they'd use a grenade during a hostage rescue attempt, but I guess we better wait till all the facts are in.

 

He's almost certain to be succeeded by his son in a North Korean style dynastic succession- undemocratic of course, but AOK when it's someone we like.

 

And the US has been doing extensive work against the Muslim Brotherhood for a long time.

 

Troo dat. Also, the notion that some middle eastern dingbat saying he hates the Great Satan is news is a little alarming in itself.

 

The really alarming tidbit which should be scaring the trousers off us is that around 100,000 young men come of age in Egypt every year (Ok, I don't remember where I heard this, but it was quite reputable. Unless I was drunk.) and there's not nearly enough jobs for them all. It's just not possible to imagine NO political violence with that many unemployed beefers hoofing around.

The leader of the Muslim Brotherhood is not just "some middle eastern dingbat" as I thought that article makes clear.

[Calax]

It does seem strange they'd use a grenade during a hostage rescue attempt, but I guess we better wait till all the facts are in.

 

He's almost certain to be succeeded by his son in a North Korean style dynastic succession- undemocratic of course, but AOK when it's someone we like.

 

And the US has been doing extensive work against the Muslim Brotherhood for a long time.

 

Troo dat. Also, the notion that some middle eastern dingbat saying he hates the Great Satan is news is a little alarming in itself.

 

The really alarming tidbit which should be scaring the trousers off us is that around 100,000 young men come of age in Egypt every year (Ok, I don't remember where I heard this, but it was quite reputable. Unless I was drunk.) and there's not nearly enough jobs for them all. It's just not possible to imagine NO political violence with that many unemployed beefers hoofing around.

The leader of the Muslim Brotherhood is not just "some middle eastern dingbat" as I thought that article makes clear.

But he is a fairly average leader of islamic militants all things considered.

[Walsingham]

It does seem strange they'd use a grenade during a hostage rescue attempt, but I guess we better wait till all the facts are in.

 

 

The leader of the Muslim Brotherhood is not just "some middle eastern dingbat" as I thought that article makes clear.

 

Allow me to vent my fevered spleen:

 

1. How in God's name is it strange? It's a firefight we're talking about here, not a game of chess. Never mind the fact that we're all yakking about second or probably 15th hand reports.

 

2. The Muslim Brotherhood have been around since the 70s, and have been anti U.S. the entire time. They are also Marxist influenced and thereby dingbats. The fact that they have a big following is hardly news. So what exactly IS news about this? The article you linked to seemed more interested in provoking alarmist flapping than providing useful warning of anything.

[Zoraptor]

I think a lot of the stink about the hostage rescue is due to the initial reports blaming a suicide vest for the hostage's death- something which would be manifestly untrue as a suicide vest has some, uh, very obvious diagnostic characteristics when it comes to the state of the wearer post use. The other issue is that the Afghan nationals taken at the same time had been released so the kidnappers were clearly amenable to negotiation and not Taleban die hards. Given the inherent risk of any hostage rescue a certain amount of concern in how it was handled is warranted.

[Orogun01]

It does seem strange they'd use a grenade during a hostage rescue attempt, but I guess we better wait till all the facts are in.

 

 

The leader of the Muslim Brotherhood is not just "some middle eastern dingbat" as I thought that article makes clear.

 

Allow me to vent my fevered spleen:

 

1. How in God's name is it strange? It's a firefight we're talking about here, not a game of chess. Never mind the fact that we're all yakking about second or probably 15th hand reports.

 

2. The Muslim Brotherhood have been around since the 70s, and have been anti U.S. the entire time. They are also Marxist influenced and thereby dingbats. The fact that they have a big following is hardly news. So what exactly IS news about this? The article you linked to seemed more interested in provoking alarmist flapping than providing useful warning of anything.

It's strange that they would go there so unprepared that they had no better recourse than a grenade. A stun, sting or flash grenade would had secured the room without killing the hostage, which was the mission. They completely failed regardless of what the situation was, whether they are responsible or not I still have to judge.

 

There are a lot of Islamic groups around the world and I'm sorry to say that all of them are a potential threat.All that they need is to heed the call of arms that the extremist have been promoting, investigating these groups once they begin to show signs of aggression.

[Wrath of Dagon]

It does seem strange they'd use a grenade during a hostage rescue attempt, but I guess we better wait till all the facts are in.

 

 

The leader of the Muslim Brotherhood is not just "some middle eastern dingbat" as I thought that article makes clear.

 

Allow me to vent my fevered spleen:

 

1. How in God's name is it strange? It's a firefight we're talking about here, not a game of chess. Never mind the fact that we're all yakking about second or probably 15th hand reports.

 

2. The Muslim Brotherhood have been around since the 70s, and have been anti U.S. the entire time. They are also Marxist influenced and thereby dingbats. The fact that they have a big following is hardly news. So what exactly IS news about this? The article you linked to seemed more interested in provoking alarmist flapping than providing useful warning of anything.

It seems strange to throw a grenade inside a building when trying to rescue hostages. And I did say we need to wait till all the facts are in. And Muslim Brotherhood is Marxist influenced? That's a new one. What is news? They declared jihad against the US, that's the news, much as Al Qaeda did before 9/11. That announcement is certainly related to the situtation in Egypt, that's another major angle on this. Also not everyone here is as well informed as you, so I thought the article provides quite a bit of interesting info people may not be aware of.

 

And yes, there are a lot of radical Islamist groups, but on closer examination virtually all of the non-Shiite ones either sprung from or/and have close ties to the Muslim Brotherhood, Al Qaeda being one of those. The main difference are the tactics, which are complementary, Al Qaeda's being open warfare, Muslim Brotherhood's long term subversion till the time comes.

[Hurlshort]

And yes, there are a lot of radical Islamist groups, but on closer examination virtually all of the non-Shiite ones either sprung from or/and have close ties to the Muslim Brotherhood, Al Qaeda being one of those. The main difference are the tactics, which are complementary, Al Qaeda's being open warfare, Muslim Brotherhood's long term subversion till the time comes.

 

And they learned it all from Cobra Commander!

 

[Nepenthe]

I noticed that too. As if hostage rescue is a quiet controlled process and only incompetence can explain the hostage dying. What a bunch of wankers journos are.

 

To be fair on the families side, they did ask the Americans not to go gung-ho and charge in, because they knew some people that were negotiating for their daughters release.. So I can understand why they're so pissed that the Americans went in anyway..

 

But yes, I'm amazed at the one-sided reporting again.

 

According to the Telegraph the decision to go in was prompted by intelligence suggesting she was about to be moved across the 'border' to Pakistan, and into the hands of a different and more violent group.

 

To the best of my knowledge every manual on special operations warfare is scathing on the topic of political leaders second guessing tactical behaviour. If that is so, how much less helpful is it for civilians to do it?

 

If anyone is interested the best book I've ever read on the topic is by William H. McRaven Special Operations Warfare, Theory and Practice. For what my opinoni is worth, of course!

 

I think it's better that the military has external oversight of some kind - it's kind of a part of democracy. Trial by newspaper is, of course, another thing, but 'oh well, **** happens' is not enough when a civilian is killed in an op (of this kind).

[Walsingham]

It seems strange to throw a grenade inside a building when trying to rescue hostages. And I did say we need to wait till all the facts are in. And Muslim Brotherhood is Marxist influenced? That's a new one. What is news? They declared jihad against the US, that's the news, much as Al Qaeda did before 9/11. That announcement is certainly related to the situtation in Egypt, that's another major angle on this. Also not everyone here is as well informed as you, so I thought the article provides quite a bit of interesting info people may not be aware of.

 

And yes, there are a lot of radical Islamist groups, but on closer examination virtually all of the non-Shiite ones either sprung from or/and have close ties to the Muslim Brotherhood, Al Qaeda being one of those. The main difference are the tactics, which are complementary, Al Qaeda's being open warfare, Muslim Brotherhood's long term subversion till the time comes.

 

Your reply is probably more measured than I deserve.

 

The marxist angle is not evident from their wiki page, but comes out through their intellectual sponsors (which you can explore on wiki) and particularly in precisely the subversive approach that they apply and which you remark on. Much of their economic 'policy' surrounding the worldwide Islamic state they pursue is based on marxist notions. From slaves unto God to slaves unto the state of God is hardly a great leap, after all.

 

~~

 

On the tactical subject, a stun grenade is hardly entirely safe, and the damage done by it will vary with proximity. Nor do we have the least notion what drove the soldier concerned to toss any form of grenade into the room. They may have received fire from inside it, or been told the hostage was being held elsewhere. I do not say this to preclude censure by proper investigation, but to object to the immediate incompetence angle seized on by the press. As has been said before, more approprium seems to attach itself to the hostage rescue team than the benighted greedy ****ers who took her hostage in the first place!

[Wrath of Dagon]

In other news, I don't know what's scarier, Afghanistan or Mexico: http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/falcon-lake-m...gator-beheaded/

[Hurlshort]

In other news, I don't know what's scarier, Afghanistan or Mexico: http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/falcon-lake-m...gator-beheaded/

 

I'd say Oakland is scarier.

[Calax]

In other news, I don't know what's scarier, Afghanistan or Mexico: http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/falcon-lake-m...gator-beheaded/

Eh, I'd personally say that website you link to.

[Orogun01]

In other news, I don't know what's scarier, Afghanistan or Mexico: http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/falcon-lake-m...gator-beheaded/

There is one difference that makes Afghanistan worse and is that everyone can pull an RPG out their pocket. Seriously.

[Hurlshort]

I visit family regularly in Mexico. There are some very rough parts, but there are also some rough parts in every major city in the US. Once you get away from the cities, it is a very beautiful country.