Gulf of Mexico oil leak

[Gorgon]

I heard BP shares are down more than 40% since the accident. Anyway the environment will recover, give it 4 or 5 months. Oil spills don't build up polution in the animal population like heavy metal poisioning, it just kills them locally.

[Humodour]

I heard BP shares are down more than 40% since the accident. Anyway the environment will recover, give it 4 or 5 months. Oil spills don't build up polution in the animal population like heavy metal poisioning, it just kills them locally.

 

I think you mean years.

 

6 months is a best case scenario. Or it was before the discovery that the leak is twice as bad as originally projected.

[Walsingham]

The Daily Mash rather astutely pointed out that it may not be wise for America to set a precedent for corporations being forced to pay compensation on a very large scale. Bhopal anyone?

[Gorgon]

How long does it take before the oil particles are no longer poisonous to the wildlife. Assuming they actually get the hole plugged so there isn't a constant resupply.

[Cycloneman]

The Daily Mash rather astutely pointed out that it may not be wise for America to set a precedent for corporations being forced to pay compensation on a very large scale. Bhopal anyone?

That's the stupidest thing I've ever heard. America can basically do whatever the **** it wants in terms of punishing corporations because in the end they will always bring their business back here no matter what, and the United States has proven again and again that it has a truly ludicrous double standard for itself and the rest of the world.

 

What exactly is supposed to happen if we seize an appropriate portion of BP's assets? Every corporation runs off because they're worried they'll manage to equal or outdo BP's disaster? India will launch a covert strike force to extradite Warren Anderson?

[LadyCrimson]

I have nothing to say beyond "nothing is failsafe" and "the world loves oil."

 

Someday maybe we can get all our gluttonous power desires served directly from some contraption shot into the sun, ala sci-fi. That would be nice. Until it burned out the sun too early. Hahahaha.

 

Sadly, so far at least, there's a price for everything.

[Humodour]

How long does it take before the oil particles are no longer poisonous to the wildlife. Assuming they actually get the hole plugged so there isn't a constant resupply.

 

I think that's one of the unknowns. And it's not the only thing wrong here. The damage those particles cause to the ecosystem in the mean-time can permanently change it (and not in a good way).

[Humodour]

Here's as much detail as you could want on what the oil spill is like up close and personal, and what its impacts on wild-life are: http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/envi...icle7145370.ece

 

Basically, some guy scuba-dived down into it.

[GreasyDogMeat]

The tragic irony of this is that all the environmental regulations force drilling out in deep water. An oil spill in coastal waters would likely have been capped within a week, which would have been bad enough, but now we have a disaster of epic proportions. Now everyone will be crying that ALL drilling is bad and this is just further proof. Never let a crisis go to waste.

[Oblarg]

The tragic irony of this is that all the environmental regulations force drilling out in deep water. An oil spill in coastal waters would likely have been capped within a week, which would have been bad enough, but now we have a disaster of epic proportions. Now everyone will be crying that ALL drilling is bad and this is just further proof. Never let a crisis go to waste.

 

The real irony is that we're able to set up deep water oil rigs while offshore wind farms (which pose almost no environmental threat at all) meet an absurd amount of resistance.

[Monte Carlo]

Obama is playing a dangerous game - grind the profitability of a major multinational into the ground for short-term political advantage this November. BP employs more Americans than Brits. The British economy would be even more in peril if BP crashes. Britain is meant to be a pivotal ally of the US. Personally, if I were the British Prime Minister I'd be reading Obama his fortune and threatening to withdraw UK troops from the 'Stan.

 

Of course, this is also Halliburton's mess, but that doesn't play as well with the anti-UK schtick the Obamamessiah is pushing, does it?

 

Nobody is suggesting that BP is anything less than completely culpable. Yes, they should be made to put right everything that's gone wrong. But the public vilification for nakedly political reasons might make Naomi Klein swoon, but it shows how Obama is prepared to screw the economy of a friendly nation to feed his machine politician instincts.

 

My extremely favourable view of the US is on hold until you get a new President. Yes you can!

[Raithe]

There's a wonderful counterbalance of things here.. Obama orders the BP chairman to visit the White House.. and uh, excuse me, "orders" a foreign businessman?

 

Add in such things as the failure of America over the whole Exon Valdez oil spill.. and the fines related to that still haven't been payed.. and for slightly more current things, the Bhopal Trial.. The pesticide leaked from the factory, over 15,000 people have died due to it, (although campaigners have put the death toll closer to 25,000) .. and the American Chairman of that company skipped bail, fled the country, and now lives quite happily in America where he gets protected by the government from trial in India...

 

Ain't it a joy?

[heathen]

Perhaps now that it happened in americans own backyard they will see the sense in more regulations and responsibilities for big companies outside of "make money and nothing else"?

[heathen]

[Cycloneman]

There's a wonderful counterbalance of things here.. Obama orders the BP chairman to visit the White House.. and uh, excuse me, "orders" a foreign businessman?

There is absolutely nothing wrong with Obama ordering the BP chairman to lick his boots, much less ordering him to visit the White House.

Nobody is suggesting that BP is anything less than completely culpable. Yes, they should be made to put right everything that's gone wrong. But the public vilification for nakedly political reasons might make Naomi Klein swoon, but it shows how Obama is prepared to screw the economy of a friendly nation to feed his machine politician instincts.

The whole "public vilification" is so blatantly meaningless that it really demonstrates more the fact that Obama is prepared to screw over the American voter with a pleasant smile and some bull**** about helping them than doing what's right.

 

There is every reason to go to every reasonable length to deal with BP, regardless of where it's headquartered. Every reasonable length stretches a very long way due to the insane level of negligence and incompetence displayed by BP with regards to this disaster.

Edited June 12, 2010 by Cycloneman

[Monte Carlo]

^ Point not found.

 

When Obama finally slays the evil eco-defiling dragon of BP with his sword of self-righteousness, guess what?

 

It won't have any money left to pay compensation or put right the long term legacy of this disaster. You don't have to like BP very much. The more I learn of it, the more appalled I am. Nonetheless, politics is about the stiletto, not the nail-encrusted baseball bat and the US president is showing none of the cool finesse for which he is allegedly known.

 

Edit: As for the Prez summoning businessmen before him... Obama is the elected head of a democratic society, not Ming the Merciless. He's never run so much as a hotdog stand, let alone a multinational. Unless the federal government pays them, he shouldn't be able to order anybody to do anything. There was me thinking that this was one of the principles of freedom on which the USA was predicated.

Edited June 13, 2010 by Monte Carlo

[Humodour]

Monte, one of the principles of freedom on which the USA was predicated is that somebody can order somebody else to do anything they want. It just so happens that part of that same freedom is the ability of the person being ordered to ignore said order unless there's a lawful compulsion.

 

So don't get your knickers in a knot.

[Wrath of Dagon]

Just a bunch of political posturing all around, doesn't mean much at all.

[Cycloneman]

When Obama finally slays the evil eco-defiling dragon of BP with his sword of self-righteousness, guess what?

 

It won't have any money left to pay compensation or put right the long term legacy of this disaster. You don't have to like BP very much. The more I learn of it, the more appalled I am. Nonetheless, politics is about the stiletto, not the nail-encrusted baseball bat and the US president is showing none of the cool finesse for which he is allegedly known.

Have you ever heard of seizing the assets of a company to pay its debts? Or do you believe that when companies go bankrupt, their assets fade into nothingness?

[Raithe]

The other side of this that's a little annoying.. is that while BP own the rig.. it was a seperate american company that was in the process of installing another piece of machinery.. and that's what went kablooey.

 

Yet Obama keeps making a firm reference to "British Petroleum" and making sure to highlight the "British" .. it really does make yah feel like the man has some sort of axe to grind...

[Irrelevant]

Hmm, has anyone made a report listing the economic externalities this will have?

[Walsingham]

When Obama finally slays the evil eco-defiling dragon of BP with his sword of self-righteousness, guess what?

 

It won't have any money left to pay compensation or put right the long term legacy of this disaster. You don't have to like BP very much. The more I learn of it, the more appalled I am. Nonetheless, politics is about the stiletto, not the nail-encrusted baseball bat and the US president is showing none of the cool finesse for which he is allegedly known.

Have you ever heard of seizing the assets of a company to pay its debts? Or do you believe that when companies go bankrupt, their assets fade into nothingness?

 

You're beginning to sound awfully like some proto Mugabe. This line of reasoning asserts that a business concern is copmrised of its assets. Whereas it is the concert of those assets, in full flow and harmony that renders wealth. What you are describing is the shooting of a donkey on the grounds that most of the donkey will still be there, and obviously worth just as much.

[Cycloneman]

You're beginning to sound awfully like some proto Mugabe. This line of reasoning asserts that a business concern is copmrised of its assets. Whereas it is the concert of those assets, in full flow and harmony that renders wealth. What you are describing is the shooting of a donkey on the grounds that most of the donkey will still be there, and obviously worth just as much.

The assets of BP ain't exactly in harmony considering they're still ****ting up the Gulf.

 

BP has a long record of criminal incompetence, and anything less than the seizure of at least some of their assets will result in a pittance for the people who have had their livelihood destroyed by this. Considering we have a liability cap of $75 mil on oil company damages, you'll forgive my doubts about the plausibility of a fine helping anyone. They'll just turn right around and **** up again, maybe not as bad, or maybe worse, unless they are actually made to really pay for this damage.

Yet Obama keeps making a firm reference to "British Petroleum" and making sure to highlight the "British" .. it really does make yah feel like the man has some sort of axe to grind...

His father was born in British-occupied Kenya. Try cracking open a history book some time. I know it's difficult for your Brits to understand, but your empire was a bad thing that really hurt people and it has blow back even to this day.

[Walsingham]

Not another attempt to whitewash the entire British Empire as a fiendish exercise in brutality. The simplest possible rebuttal is that if it HAD been it would never have existed in the first place. Britain never possessed sufficient military power to exert its will by pure force of arms. Whether we like it or not they maintained control by a mix of methods which included making life better for many whose lives previously (and since) consisted of eternal tribal violence. Although the relevance to a modern question of corporate accountability totally escapes me.

 

You have no doubt chosen to believe I'm being terribly patriotic about BP, but beyond the question of pensions it's nonsensical to be patriotic about this. I'm also just as motivated to see people's lives protected as you seem to be. I'm just not so stupid as to kill off the very entity I'm trying to get compensation from. Nor so stupid as to ban exploitation of oil wealth which is an important component of both US jobs, and US security.

 

If BP cut corners to achieve a few extra bucks profit then they are as a corporation bloody stupid, but I believe the answer is personal individual accountability under criminal law. Punishing the whole body and expecting shareholders to be the agents of control in such serious and technical matters is a nonsense. It betrays a complete lack of understanding of how corporations actually function.

[Gorth]

Not to mention that nationalising corporate assets, besides making Castro go green with envy over the scale, would set a dangerous precedent. Both by making foreign companies more reluctant to invest in the US, but also because overseas nations might be more inclined to think, "They can do it, so can we" and help themselves to American assets in a dispute situation. Moving thresholds and lowering bars can be detrimental.