New XCOM game

[Walsingham]

Everything else stands.

 

Did we read the same previews?

 

I think so. I read all the ones linked to. Twice.

 

I may be over-reacting slightly. It will probably be quite fun. But I despair of seeing anything which can't be controlled via an up-down left-right interface; which is what it really comes down to. They've cut any of the complex managerial side because it doesn't work on console.

[Nemo0071]

I may be over-reacting slightly. It will probably be quite fun. But I despair of seeing anything which can't be controlled via an up-down left-right interface; which is what it really comes down to. They've cut any of the complex managerial side because it doesn't work on console.

 

When bulky & impractical design is refined for better accesibility it's usually a good thing.

 

When deep & detailed design is "dumbed down" because "it doesn't work on console" it's always a bad thing.

Edited June 16, 2010 by Nemo0071

[Darque]

Everything else stands.

 

Did we read the same previews?

 

I may be over-reacting slightly.

 

Mmmmhmmm.

 

From what I've read, it seems it's like your old, archaic, ancient, 8-bit X-Com; but shiny-new, FPS, and set in the 50s.

[Mikhailian]

"When deep & detailed design is "dumbed down" because "it doesn't work on console" it's always a bad thing. "

 

Ah, I think I see where this misunderstanding is coming from. See, instead of saying "dumbed down", you need to say "streamlined". Just try it out. See how refreshing and completely non-threatening that felt?

[Slowtrain]

"Streamlined" sounds a lot sexier (it's like an F-22!) than "now playable by chimpanzees".

 

So streamlined it is.

[Purkake]

Don't make it a curse word, you can streamline stuff and actually make it better, just look at Shadowrun 4e.

[Slowtrain]

Don't make it a curse word, you can streamline stuff and actually make it better.

 

 

That's a good point, and I agree. Sometimes cutting/simplifying stuff off does help improve a game.

 

I'll try to keep reminding myself of that.

[Walsingham]

"Streamlined" sounds a lot sexier (it's like an F-22!) than "now playable by chimpanzees".

 

 

+10

[Nemo0071]

For me personally, base building, research & manufacturing was the heart and soul of X-COM. I meant that taking these out of the game (or making them less accessible / controllable) for whatever reason would ruin it.

 

Again, personally, I wasn't a huge fan of the turn-based tactical squad combat in X-COM so I was happy to see that being replaced by FPS. But now it seems like the FPS part is going to be as generic as an FPS can possibly be, or worse.

 

(X-COM) + (boring-as-hell FPS) - (base management) = I won't bother playing this game, even if it's free.

 

I sincerely hope they prove me wrong.

[Gorth]

Again, personally, I wasn't a huge fan of the turn-based tactical squad combat in X-COM so I was happy to see that being replaced by FPS.

For the first two games, I would agree, but for the third one not really. It had the best combat of the series, only rivalled by the combat in JA2. Of course, I'm a sucker for tactical use of landscape and destructable environment as well as use of all 3d dimensions on the battlefield, so I might be biased. For the severely attention span challenged, the turn based combat was optional and missions could be played as a real-time strategy games.

[Nemo0071]

Again, personally, I wasn't a huge fan of the turn-based tactical squad combat in X-COM so I was happy to see that being replaced by FPS.

For the first two games, I would agree, but for the third one not really. It had the best combat of the series, only rivalled by the combat in JA2. Of course, I'm a sucker for tactical use of landscape and destructable environment as well as use of all 3d dimensions on the battlefield, so I might be biased. For the severely attention span challenged, the turn based combat was optional and missions could be played as a real-time strategy games.

Hmm... Considering I've played only the first games from both X-COM and Jagged Alliance series, I wouldn't know about that.

 

I recently played an X-COM clone, and turn-based combat was decent enough. Still, not the highlight of the game imo. And it's coming from a guy who enjoys turn-based and real-time strategy / combat games alike.

 

An X-COM FPS in a futuristic (and true to the original) environment with the management aspect intact sounded like an awesome idea (and a fresh breath of air) at first glance. Then it all went downhill from there for me, I guess...

[Gorth]

I like FPS games who excel at the action part, Strategy games who excel at the strategy part etc. It's just that once in every 5 years, a rare gem emerges that manages to get the compromise right and create good hybrid. Unfortunately that rare gem is usually preceded by 9 disasters and succeeded by 10 hopeless clones trying to cash in on the success of "The One". I can't really think of a crpg from top of my head that got the mix (between action and "typical" crpg aspects) right, JA2 and X-Com 3 managed to get the strategy, tactical and managerial aspects mixed to my liking. A feat that is very hard to reproduce

[Nemo0071]

I like FPS games who excel at the action part, Strategy games who excel at the strategy part etc. It's just that once in every 5 years, a rare gem emerges that manages to get the compromise right and create good hybrid. Unfortunately that rare gem is usually preceded by 9 disasters and succeeded by 10 hopeless clones trying to cash in on the success of "The One". I can't really think of a crpg from top of my head that got the mix (between action and "typical" crpg aspects) right, JA2 and X-Com 3 managed to get the strategy, tactical and managerial aspects mixed to my liking. A feat that is very hard to reproduce

I thought (hoped) that this new game would get the balance right between squad based FP combat and base management / tactics / strategy etc., hence my optimism before.

 

What I gained from this thread so far is that it'll probably be a generic 50's era shooter with the strategy elements "streamlined" ( ).

 

We'll know for sure once the game (or a demo / preview) comes out.

 

 

BTW, JA2 is JA2, but what's the full name of this X-COM 3 ? (there's a whole bunch of them out there)

I might check it out...

Edited June 17, 2010 by Nemo0071

[Oner]

I like FPS games who excel at the action part, Strategy games who excel at the strategy part etc. It's just that once in every 5 years, a rare gem emerges that manages to get the compromise right and create good hybrid. Unfortunately that rare gem is usually preceded by 9 disasters and succeeded by 10 hopeless clones trying to cash in on the success of "The One". I can't really think of a crpg from top of my head that got the mix (between action and "typical" crpg aspects) right, JA2 and X-Com 3 managed to get the strategy, tactical and managerial aspects mixed to my liking. A feat that is very hard to reproduce

Fallout: Tactics? : x

[Gorth]

BTW, JA2 is JA2, but what's the full name of this X-COM 3 ? (there's a whole bunch of them out there)

I might check it out...

X-Com 3: Apocalypse... I bought it originally when it was new and later "rebought" it from Gamersgate as part of their big X-Com package deal (all X-Com games, including Enforcer etc.). I think I paid like 10$ for that package including readymade dosbox configurations.

 

Edit to add:

I like FPS games who excel at the action part, Strategy games who excel at the strategy part etc. It's just that once in every 5 years, a rare gem emerges that manages to get the compromise right and create good hybrid. Unfortunately that rare gem is usually preceded by 9 disasters and succeeded by 10 hopeless clones trying to cash in on the success of "The One". I can't really think of a crpg from top of my head that got the mix (between action and "typical" crpg aspects) right, JA2 and X-Com 3 managed to get the strategy, tactical and managerial aspects mixed to my liking. A feat that is very hard to reproduce

Fallout: Tactics? : x

Not sure how to "categorise" Fallout Tactics as anything other than a rts game?

 

Edit2: Mind you, I haven't played Fo:T since the original demo was released (so my memory is a bit fuzzy on the specifics). I have the full version somewhere with my Fallout Trilogy pack, just never got around to play it.

[Nemo0071]

BTW, JA2 is JA2, but what's the full name of this X-COM 3 ? (there's a whole bunch of them out there)

I might check it out...

X-Com 3: Apocalypse... I bought it originally when it was new and later "rebought" it from Gamersgate as part of their big X-Com package deal (all X-Com games, including Enforcer etc.). I think I paid like 10$ for that package including readymade dosbox configurations.

Thanks for the tip.

 

I haven't played Fo:T since the original demo was released (so my memory is a bit fuzzy on the specifics). I have the full version somewhere with my Fallout Trilogy pack, just never got around to play it.

You should play through it at least once. It's not nearly as enjoyable as 1&2 imo (mostly due to the absence of a dialogue and C&C system; it's purely a combat RPG) but it got many things right that FO1&2 didn't. I have fond memories of the decent inventory system, for example. Unlike FO1...

[Oner]

I like FPS games who excel at the action part, Strategy games who excel at the strategy part etc. It's just that once in every 5 years, a rare gem emerges that manages to get the compromise right and create good hybrid. Unfortunately that rare gem is usually preceded by 9 disasters and succeeded by 10 hopeless clones trying to cash in on the success of "The One". I can't really think of a crpg from top of my head that got the mix (between action and "typical" crpg aspects) right, JA2 and X-Com 3 managed to get the strategy, tactical and managerial aspects mixed to my liking. A feat that is very hard to reproduce

Fallout: Tactics? : x

Not sure how to "categorize" Fallout Tactics as anything other than a rts game?

I was replaying to the bolded part.

[Zoraptor]

BTW, JA2 is JA2, but what's the full name of this X-COM 3 ? (there's a whole bunch of them out there)

I might check it out...

X-Com 3: Apocalypse... I bought it originally when it was new and later "rebought" it from Gamersgate as part of their big X-Com package deal (all X-Com games, including Enforcer etc.). I think I paid like 10$ for that package including readymade dosbox configurations.

Thanks for the tip.

 

It's on special now for $6 if you're interested.

[Nemo0071]

^ This is too good to miss. I'll check it out. Thanks.

[Slowtrain]

XCOMApoc had very good combat but so did 1 and 2. 1 was somewhat unbalanced in the end game, once you had certain items everything became super-easy.

 

Terror from the Deep reamains to me mind the most difficult and demannding of the the three XCOM games in terms of combat. Missons are long, enemies are tough, the weapons and items are very balanced and success in combat requires a real combined-arms approach, no uber "press this to win" button.

 

Not a game for sissies, that one.

[Hurlshort]

XCOMApoc had very good combat but so did 1 and 2. 1 was somewhat unbalanced in the end game, once you had certain items everything became super-easy.

 

Terror from the Deep reamains to me mind the most difficult and demannding of the the three XCOM games in terms of combat. Missons are long, enemies are tough, the weapons and items are very balanced and success in combat requires a real combined-arms approach, no uber "press this to win" button.

 

Not a game for sissies, that one.

 

The Terror missions is TFTD were way tough. Total battle of attrition, I used to get below decks after losing half my squad and just barely eke out a win.

[LostStraw]

Giant Bomb E3 XCOM interview:

http://www.giantbomb.com/e3-2010-xcom-interview/17-2785/

[Spider]

Not sure how to "categorise" Fallout Tactics as anything other than a rts

 

If you're playing FO:T as a rts then you're doing it wrong. It's turn based mode is where it's at. Played like that it's very similar to Silent Storm and an excellent game.

[Serrano]

I don't know if anyone would be interested but there is a fan-made mutliplayer x-com game that lets two players fight tactical missions against each other (still in beta). You don't need the old games to run it, but if you do still have a copy of UFO:Enemy Unkown or Terror from the Deep then you can use the old sprites and maps in high res. It works perfectly well in the latest versions of windows (At least up to Vista which is what I'm using, not sure about Win7) and you don't need to mess about with patches or drivers to get it working.

Edited June 18, 2010 by Serrano

[Purkake]

XCOMApoc had very good combat but so did 1 and 2. 1 was somewhat unbalanced in the end game, once you had certain items everything became super-easy.

 

Terror from the Deep reamains to me mind the most difficult and demannding of the the three XCOM games in terms of combat. Missons are long, enemies are tough, the weapons and items are very balanced and success in combat requires a real combined-arms approach, no uber "press this to win" button.

 

Not a game for sissies, that one.

 

The Terror missions is TFTD were way tough. Total battle of attrition, I used to get below decks after losing half my squad and just barely eke out a win.

Having to find the last damn alien on the ship missions was way worse than anything else.