Amazing show of bipartisanship by 76 senators...

[Volourn]

"Israel is BEST!"

 

L0L Not even close.

 

 

 

"You have a really, really childish view of politics. The idea that the oppressed rising against their oppressors is the moral equivalent to the oppressors suppressing the oppressed is just... I don't see how you can really believe that. Are you trolling me or do you really have the moral development of a 12 year old republican?"

 

Sure beats your believe that it is justifible to target civilians. It's not justifible when the US does it. Not justifible when Russia does it. Not justifible when Isreal does it. Not justifible when Palestine does it. Period.

 

I don't care how 'oppressed' you are. It is immoral to target civilians. Period.

[I want teh kotor 3]

How about a non-spammy one which differs from some minute way from all of your other ones.

[lord of flies]

How about a non-spammy one which differs from some minute way from all of your other ones.

You mean like my last one? You know, where I identified Barack Obama as anti-American and went into extended reasons why (I have not previously attacked Barack Obama as a solitary individual, but merely as a representation of the bourgeois institution), in the largest amount of effort I've put into a topic on the forum since my "The October Revolution, a History" topic? What exactly happened in that topic... hmm... let me check my notes...

Sure beats your believe that it is justifible to target civilians. It's not justifible when the US does it. Not justifible when Russia does it. Not justifible when Isreal does it. Not justifible when Palestine does it. Period.

 

I don't care how 'oppressed' you are. It is immoral to target civilians. Period.

The only person here who has posted "it is justifible to target civilians" is you.

[Volourn]

"The only person here who has posted "it is justifible to target civilians" is you."

 

Actually, it was you. You claimed Hamas was justified in targeting civilizans because they were oppressed. Are you admitting you were wrong, or are you going to continue to spout more lies?

[lord of flies]

"The only person here who has posted "it is justifible to target civilians" is you."

 

Actually, it was you. You claimed Hamas was justified in targeting civilizans because they were oppressed. Are you admitting you were wrong, or are you going to continue to spout more lies?

*sigh*

 

Where did I say that? Go ahead and find it.

[obyknven]

"The only person here who has posted "it is justifible to target civilians" is you."

 

Actually, it was you. You claimed Hamas was justified in targeting civilizans because they were oppressed. Are you admitting you were wrong, or are you going to continue to spout more lies?

Blame Hamas!

[213374U]

The only person here who has posted "it is justifible to target civilians" is you.

True in the strict sense that you haven't posted "it's justifiable for them to do that" but, in fact, false:

The idea that the oppressed rising against their oppressors is the moral equivalent to the oppressors suppressing the oppressed is just... I don't see how you can really believe that.

That statement makes it clear that Hamas targeting Israeli civilians is, in your mind, less reprehensible than Israel targeting Palestinian civilians. You don't need to specifically state that Hamas firing rockets in the general direction of Israeli cities is "ok", but you are implicitly justifying it as "rising against their oppressors". Otherwise, it would be inconsequential whether they were doing it in "self-defense" or just for kicks.

 

Something is either justifiable or unjustifiable, but not both depending on whether it's the workers of the world rising up against the tyranny of the petite-bourgeoisie, or the neo-colonialist white dogs keeping the third world down.

 

Pick one.

[Volourn]

"Blame Hamas! "

 

For targeting civlians, absolutely.

 

Also, your map only shows that at one time that Isreal ws the oppressed and they raised up and fought their oppressors.

 

Let's make it clear once again since the pro Hamas people aren't getting it. It's immoral to target civilians no matter who youa re or how much power you have. Period.

 

But, yeah, psoting that makes me an Isreali apologiger somehow even though I'm saying they're just as guilty.

 

The logic in that reasoning is pathetic.

[Morgoth]

It's really about time that the Palestinians get their own little piece of land so that they finally shut up! Or will they?

[Gorgon]

Hames is awesome because they target Isreal children because it's justified ebcause they're not really people anyways but if Isreal does it they all need to be wiped out. And, yeah, no bias or bigotry there on your part. LMAO

 

 

let's also ignore the fact all the garbage Muslim/Arab states have put Palestinje through yet they get a free pass because they're not Isreal. L0LZ

I was going to post a serous response, but then I saw this. Pearls, swine, etc.

[Killian Kalthorne]

LoF, maybe you need to start to learn that in the real world nations live or die by how much resources and influence they garner. If Palestine was meant to be a strong nation then they would have the ability to push back Israel. They can't. Oh boo hoo.

 

In the course of history nations rise and nations fall. That is just how things are and always will be. Don't like it, well tough. That's humanity for you. Oh, do pray tell what real world actions have you done. Running around in circles with signs isn't going to change anything either.

[lord of flies]

LoF, maybe you need to start to learn that in the real world nations live or die by how much resources and influence they garner. If Palestine was meant to be a strong nation then they would have the ability to push back Israel. They can't. Oh boo hoo.

This is really a god awful opinion, btw Killian. Read Hume's Law then stop thinking like this.

Oh, do pray tell what real world actions have you done. Running around in circles with signs isn't going to change anything either.

lol nonviolent resistance/direct action isn't going to change anything? Orange Revolution? Overthrow of Milosevic? Civil rights movement? Welp, guess those were all fictitious struggles because King of Knowledge Killian Kalthorne Knows What Works And What Doesn't.

[Blarghagh]

This is really a god awful opinion, btw Killian. Read Hume's Law then stop thinking like this.

 

See, this is where all your predecessors went wrong and irreparably destroyed the reputation of real socialists.

[Rostere]

If Palestine was meant to be a strong nation then they would have the ability to push back Israel. They can't. Oh boo hoo.

 

In the course of history nations rise and nations fall. That is just how things are and always will be. Don't like it, well tough. That's humanity for you.

 

I think you have the wrong perspective on history. If you don't like how things are, well, change it. If you don't believe that can be done, look at Nelson Mandela, Martin Luther King, Mikhail Gorbachev, and also those who died trying including Dag Hammarskj

[213374U]

Mikhail Gorbachev

Regardless of the hopelessly romantic prism through which you are reviewing history, are you sure that using this guy as an example of what you are saying is a good idea? Edited April 14, 2010 by 213374U

[Rostere]

Mikhail Gorbachev

Regardless of the hopelessly romantic prism through which you are reviewing history, are you sure that using this guy as an example of what you are saying is a good idea?

 

The guy who peacefully dismantled the Soviet Union? Yes, that might be quite the good example.

[Oblarg]

Mikhail Gorbachev

Regardless of the hopelessly romantic prism through which you are reviewing history, are you sure that using this guy as an example of what you are saying is a good idea?

 

The guy who peacefully dismantled the Soviet Union? Yes, that might be quite the good example.

 

He didn't exactly intend to dismantle the Soviet Union. If you payed attention in history class you'd know that.

[Amentep]

Mikhail Gorbachev

Regardless of the hopelessly romantic prism through which you are reviewing history, are you sure that using this guy as an example of what you are saying is a good idea?

 

The guy who peacefully dismantled the Soviet Union? Yes, that might be quite the good example.

 

He didn't exactly intend to dismantle the Soviet Union. If you payed attention in history class you'd know that.

 

He thought he was pressing the button for "Soviet Union 'Country Tea' Dispenser" and much to his surprise found out he'd actually pressed "Soviet Union Country Dismantler".

 

Such an easy mistake to make, but not really one you expect from a veteran politico.

[213374U]

Mikhail Gorbachev

Regardless of the hopelessly romantic prism through which you are reviewing history, are you sure that using this guy as an example of what you are saying is a good idea?

 

The guy who peacefully dismantled the Soviet Union? Yes, that might be quite the good example.

Yeah, only that wasn't his intention by any stretch of the imagination -- American geopolitical and economic machinations were much more decisive in leading to the collapse of the USSR than he was. As a statesman, Gorbachev was pretty terrible, and he's actually a better example of what Hades said than of your own thesis.

 

Of course, we love him because he sucked at being a bloodthirsty, power-crazed communist dictator, but that's a different story...

[Rostere]

The guy who peacefully dismantled the Soviet Union? Yes, that might be quite the good example.

 

He didn't exactly intend to dismantle the Soviet Union. If you payed attention in history class you'd know that.

 

In every important aspect, he did intend to dismantle the Soviet Union. I'd like you to read up on Wikipedia, or prove me wrong through other means...

 

The guy who peacefully dismantled the Soviet Union? Yes, that might be quite the good example.

Yeah, only that wasn't his intention by any stretch of the imagination -- American geopolitical and economic machinations were much more decisive in leading to the collapse of the USSR than he was. As a statesman, Gorbachev was pretty terrible, and he's actually a better example of what Hades said than of your own thesis.

 

Of course, we love him because he sucked at being a bloodthirsty, power-crazed communist dictator, but that's a different story...

 

No, American geopolitical machinations were not more decisive in leading to the PEACEFUL DISMANTLEMENT of the USSR, or at least not if you aren't arguing they somehow led to the election of Gorbachev.

[lord of flies]

This is really a god awful opinion, btw Killian. Read Hume's Law then stop thinking like this.

 

See, this is where all your predecessors went wrong and irreparably destroyed the reputation of real socialists.

What, praytell, do you mean by this?

 

Edit: Rostere, claiming that the break-up of the Soviet Union was good or masterminded by Gorbachev is a complete fiction, even from a bourgeois democratic perspective. The break-up of the Soviet Union was organized by anti-democratic bureaucrats and local elites, who purposefully ignored or suppressed polls regarding the political break-up of the Soviet Union's constituent republics (it wasn't exactly very popular outside the Baltic). It was mismanaged by these same anti-democratic bureaucrats so that every nation in the former Soviet Union went through economic troubles which were twice as bad as the Great Depression. Even functional liberal democracy evades many former Soviet constituent republics.

Edited April 15, 2010 by Tigranes
Grow up

[Gromnir]

Given: The United States of America is the source of all evil.

 

if one starts with the above proposition, then it becomes perfect reasonable to mention gorbachev in the same breath as MLK and Gandhi.

 

as an aside, am recalling our trip to moscow in 1988. it were difficult to take serious the notion that the soviet union were a super power following that visit. not far from red square we were offered a car in trade for our sony walkman... and if we had known then what we knew afterward, we woulda' filled our suitcase with condoms before arriving in moscow, 'cause we probably coulda' gotten ourselves a pound or two of diamonds in trade. woulda' been difficult to get out of the country, but... *shrug* is amazing how many locals, recognizing that Gromnir were a foreigner, would approach us openly on streets trying to make trades for anything and everything we might have on our person, but condoms were the gold ticket item. think 'bout what that says of the soviet economy in 1988. the fact that such illicit trades were being conducted in broad daylight, and sometimes in plain sight of military personnel, tells a great deal 'bout the state of the worker's paradise.

 

 

HA! Good Fun!

 

ps anybody that cites wikipedia deserves to be kicked in the head with steel toe boots. try that crap on a university paper... we dare you.

[Guard Dog]

ps anybody that cites wikipedia deserves to be kicked in the head with steel toe boots. try that crap on a university paper... we dare you.

 

Another great quote from Gromnir!

[213374U]

No, American geopolitical machinations were not more decisive in leading to the PEACEFUL DISMANTLEMENT of the USSR, or at least not if you aren't arguing they somehow led to the election of Gorbachev.

What, you mean that Gorbachev was an incompetent on purpose?

 

Interesting theory.

[I want teh kotor 3]

LoF, claiming that the breakup of the USSR was bad falls below that standard. How can you think that the fall of an oppressive totalitarian state, that regularly killed it citizens, was bad? Its just illogical.