Fallout: New Vegas

[Nemo0071]

I haven't played Oblivion but when I read on the net about how FO3 uses the same engine, how the crashes were present in Oblivion too... I simply coudn't believe how they could make a game like FO3 without solving those issues. That's just..... wrong. After all the fuss they made over the game, it simply crashes. Regularly.

 

We can only hope Obs can do something about it...

 

EDIT: And here I am, saying these things as a quicksave-happy gamer. I can't imagine how frustrating it would be if I lost 1+ hour gameplay or something...

Edited April 12, 2010 by Nemo0071

[Slowtrain]

My guess would be there won't be any crash fixes. I'm fully expecting the NV to be just as crashprone for me as FO3 was.

 

Some people don't have problems with crashes, so it's not a universal issue that would need to be addressed. Those of us who have the problem are just going to have to keep dealing with it. My guess, anyway.

[Nemo0071]

My guess would be there won't be any crash fixes. I'm fully expecting the NV to be just as crashprone for me as FO3 was.

 

Some people don't have problems with crashes, so it's not a universal issue that would need to be addressed. Those of us who have the problem are just going to have to keep dealing with it. My guess, anyway.

Because I had the same problem on 2 different PCs (and two different games), my guess is:

 

a) It is fairly common, if not universal

b) The game has a grudge against x64 systems and/or nvidia 200 series cards

c) I'm just plain and simple unlucky. Along with a whole bunch of other people

 

However, I fear the same thing: No changes to the engine. It'd be time consuming; time Obsidian doesn't have...

 

One can always hope, though.

[jero cvmi]

I'll just be happy if Obs can upgrade the quality of the writing/characters/story/npcs and change the reapir system into somethign less time consuming and annoying.

+1

 

If they do well all that needs to be done and can't be modded, there will be enough motivation to mod in toilets and the like.

[Killian Kalthorne]

Must have toilet water...

 

MUST HAVE TOILET WATER.

 

MUST HAVE TOILET WATER!

 

MUST HAVE TOILET WATER!!!

 

Wha...?

[Deadly_Nightshade]

Now, and this might have been addressed and I just missed it, has anyone clarified if New Vegas is going to support the G.E.C.K. Toolset or not? It seems that it would, being a co-title with Bethesda and sharing the engine, but then the game might be less modification-freindly if it has a less free-roam world. But, yeah, I just thought of that was wondering if anything had been said.

[WorstUsernameEver]

Now, and this might have been addressed and I just missed it, has anyone clarified if New Vegas is going to support the G.E.C.K. Toolset or not? It seems that it would, being a co-title with Bethesda and sharing the engine, but then the game might be less modification-freindly if it has a less free-roam world. But, yeah, I just thought of that was wondering if anything had been said.

 

The game has been built with the GECK from the ground up with some modifications to the engine coordinated with Bethesda if I recall what Sawyer said.

My guess is that they'll release an upgraded version of the GECK at release or very soon after, since modding is really a sizeable part of the PC community of Bethesda's games (granted, this is developed by Obsidian but the fanbase is overlapping with Bethesda's).

[Amentep]

My guess would be there won't be any crash fixes. I'm fully expecting the NV to be just as crashprone for me as FO3 was.

 

Some people don't have problems with crashes, so it's not a universal issue that would need to be addressed. Those of us who have the problem are just going to have to keep dealing with it. My guess, anyway.

Because I had the same problem on 2 different PCs (and two different games), my guess is:

 

a) It is fairly common, if not universal

b) The game has a grudge against x64 systems and/or nvidia 200 series cards

c) I'm just plain and simple unlucky. Along with a whole bunch of other people

 

However, I fear the same thing: No changes to the engine. It'd be time consuming; time Obsidian doesn't have...

 

One can always hope, though.

 

It locks up on the 360 as well as my PC. I can understand different configurations of hardware presenting a problem with PC development, but the 360...?

 

Well looking away from crashes, has there been any word about whether they'll look at tweaking how the game renders skin tone? Its a bit annoying to have a multihued PC because the clothes I'm wearing doesn't actually reflect the color I chose on my face (which was hard to gauge anyhow in that little dark screen)

 

EDIT: Just to be clear, I mean when I'm wearing armor my arms, for example, are often a different tone than my face. But also certain skin types seem to be naturally multihued for no real reason.

Edited April 13, 2010 by Amentep

[Gorgon]

Bethesda seems to have a Freudian issue with dark tunnel, it was the same in Oblivion. What's wrong with letting the player see what the character will look like in the game world. The face preview is inadequate.

[Nemo0071]

Its a bit annoying to have a multihued PC because the clothes I'm wearing doesn't actually reflect the color I chose on my face (which was hard to gauge anyhow in that little dark screen)

About that, on more than one occasion, I came across a Talon Company merc. whose face is pale white, while his body is pitch black. Hilarious the first time you see it, annoying after that. Don't know if it's relevant to what you just said.*

 

Also, I managed to do this:

 

I had a character with a fairly light skin color.

-I went to Pinkerton and used the option to change skin tone, made it pitch black, ended dialogue. All was normal.

-Then I loaded my quicksave from just before the operation. Face white (as it was in the save), body dark (as it was after the operation). Pretty much the same thing with the Talon Company merc.

-I exit the game, restart the game, load my quicksave, and I'm back to my normal character. All was right with the world.

 

It seems a relatively easy to solve issue, easier than the crashes at least.

 

* Just saw your edit. Yep, it's the same damn thing. Not the one I mentioned about skin color changing operation, though. I wasn't wearing any clothing/armor at that point. I think it has something to do with how the game handles savegames (how it loads them / what it loads exactly etc.).

[Wombat]

I think it all comes down to multi-tasking on programmers' account, and a fully customizable "gameplay options" menu. That would be heaven.

Well, the geek elitism aside, agreed. RPGs are chimeras, which can be separated into sets of game-plays, and, depending on the players, game-plays that they'd like to focus can be different. In fact, even here, it's quite tough for some players to insist on a new implementation about a certain game-play without stepping the foot of other players. It would be rather odd to see only two options between normal/hardcore while there are many implementations (skills, ability scores, and equipments) available for the players to customize their game-play experiences in the game, whether it is the job of mods or professional designers.

 

I mean, what's wrong with just carrrying a toolkit in your inventory and clicking on it to repair things. It achieves the same result and is much less annoying.

That would make those unhappy who spent their points on repair skill (Repair doesn't sound like fun at all, though). That's why I suggested a possible system under which your Combat Boy should be able to deal with his enemies with lesser weapons which don't require (frequent) repairing while occasionally relying on less durable but effective weapons. His combat skills would be able to let these weapons survive (and himself) till he drops by a community where he could ask an NPC for the fix job. Now, a Science Boy wouldn't need to envy the combat expert since he should be able to keep good weapons fixed on the road, which would make up for his lesser combat skills. Of course, this is just a suggestion and, if the designers and/or someone else have better ideas, I'd like the designers to implement them to the game, though.

[Nemo0071]

I think it all comes down to multi-tasking on programmers' account, and a fully customizable "gameplay options" menu. That would be heaven.

Well, the geek elitism aside, agreed. RPGs are chimeras, which can be separated into sets of game-plays, and, depending on the players, game-plays that they'd like to focus can be different. In fact, even here, it's quite tough for some players to insist on a new implementation about a certain game-play without stepping the foot of other players. It would be rather odd to see only two options between normal/hardcore while there are many implementations (skills, ability scores, and equipments) available for the players to customize their game-play experiences in the game, whether it is the job of mods or professional designers.

 

I mean, what's wrong with just carrrying a toolkit in your inventory and clicking on it to repair things. It achieves the same result and is much less annoying.

That would make those unhappy who spent their points on repair skill (Repair doesn't sound like fun at all, though). That's why I suggested a possible system under which your Combat Boy should be able to deal with his enemies with lesser weapons which don't require (frequent) repairing while occasionally relying on less durable but effective weapons. His combat skills would be able to let these weapons survive (and himself) till he drops by a community where he could ask an NPC for the fix job. Now, a Science Boy wouldn't need to envy the combat expert since he should be able to keep good weapons fixed on the road, which would make up for his lesser combat skills. Of course, this is just a suggestion and, if the designers and/or someone else have better ideas, I'd like the designers to implement them to the game, though.

Oh, make no mistake, I wouldn't consider myself a geek, and I'm definitely not a programmer. I was just trying to point out that this kind of customization would put the heaviest strain on programmers. "Game Designers", otoh, will frequently scratch their heads while messing with the skills, stats, choices etc. and how they affect the game. Which brings me to the second part of your post.

 

Although I don't like categorizing builds as "combat boy" or "science boy", I get what you mean, and I like the idea. Thing is, for example in FO3 if you were a "science boy" you had the option of hacking turret control terminals and turn them against enemies, but to be able to get to that terminal in the first place, you also had to be a decent "stealth boy". My point is, it's all about balance. Balance of skills by way of their strengths and weaknesses, enabling the player to create his/her own build however he/she sees fit, instead of trying to "fit in" with the predetermined specialization restrictions of the game. It's an RPG, after all...

 

 

Oh and btw, it may have been mentioned before but, combat skills affecting how much damage a weapon causes (ranged weapons) is just wrong. Should combat skills affect accuracy/spread? Definitely. Weapon maintenance/condition? Of course. But once it hits the spot, a mini nuke is a mini nuke. Shouldn't matter how hard you pull the trigger. Duh.

[Slowtrain]

Going all the way back to Morrowind, Bethesda seems to have a real problem with creating character models and faces that aren't pretty weird looking.

 

 

The "exploded faces" (as Tep so accurately calls them) of Oblivion are hopefully the low point of this sort of thing. FO3 was a big improvement anyway, though still plenty wonky with the faces and character models in many ways.

[Amentep]

Oh and btw, it may have been mentioned before but, combat skills affecting how much damage a weapon causes (ranged weapons) is just wrong. Should combat skills affect accuracy/spread? Definitely. Weapon maintenance/condition? Of course. But once it hits the spot, a mini nuke is a mini nuke. Shouldn't matter how hard you pull the trigger. Duh.

 

But for the big gun expert, his mininukes are mininukier!

 

I think this is the sort of thing that leads to being able to shoot a rifle into the head of anyone from 3 feet and have it take a dot of life off if you have no skills in the weapon. To be honest, since combats a bit of an abstraction its always been something I just rolled with.

[Slowtrain]

Weapon damage is an abstraction though. A higher skill simply indicares that a charcter is more proficient with using a weapon and so the attacks will be more damaging.

 

While I agree it doesn't make sense in a "real world" sort of way, neither does teh idea of suriving a direct hit from a rocker launcher or charging directly into a firing minigun and surviving.

 

Its all about using abstraction to support the gameplay.

[Nemo0071]

Oh and btw, it may have been mentioned before but, combat skills affecting how much damage a weapon causes (ranged weapons) is just wrong. Should combat skills affect accuracy/spread? Definitely. Weapon maintenance/condition? Of course. But once it hits the spot, a mini nuke is a mini nuke. Shouldn't matter how hard you pull the trigger. Duh.

 

But for the big gun expert, his mininukes are mininukier!

 

I think this is the sort of thing that leads to being able to shoot a rifle into the head of anyone from 3 feet and have it take a dot of life off if you have no skills in the weapon. To be honest, since combats a bit of an abstraction its always been something I just rolled with.

Nice.

 

It reminds me, I wonder if we'll have a chance to see more localized wounds and protection... Like the almighty Roger Maxson* in his almighty power armor being killed with an arrow simply because "he wasn't wearing his helmet at the time". The concept of "weak spot" could get pretty interesting...

 

*EDIT: His son.

Edited April 13, 2010 by Nemo0071

[Amentep]

Might be the only thing to get me to wearing bulky headgear (I like my headband with a +1 to perception).

[Gorgon]

Going all the way back to Morrowind, Bethesda seems to have a real problem with creating character models and faces that aren't pretty weird looking.

 

 

The "exploded faces" (as Tep so accurately calls them) of Oblivion are hopefully the low point of this sort of thing. FO3 was a big improvement anyway, though still plenty wonky with the faces and character models in many ways.

After half an hour in the face generator roulette you could sometimes manage to get a cool satisfying look. Too bad there was no way to save it. Why not have the option to add two or three of your own creations to the presets. It's not like that would be hard to implement.

Edited April 13, 2010 by Gorgon

[Wombat]

Oh, make no mistake, I wouldn't consider myself a geek, and I'm definitely not a programmer.

And I thought we were qualified as geeks when checking the designers' boards at this stage of the development. I'm allergic to elitism rather than geeks.

 

I was just trying to point out that this kind of customization would put the heaviest strain on programmers. "Game Designers", otoh, will frequently scratch their heads while messing with the skills, stats, choices etc. and how they affect the game. Which brings me to the second part of your post.

 

Although I don't like categorizing builds as "combat boy" or "science boy", I get what you mean, and I like the idea. Thing is, for example in FO3 if you were a "science boy" you had the option of hacking turret control terminals and turn them against enemies, but to be able to get to that terminal in the first place, you also had to be a decent "stealth boy". My point is, it's all about balance. Balance of skills by way of their strengths and weaknesses, enabling the player to create his/her own build however he/she sees fit, instead of trying to "fit in" with the predetermined specialization restrictions of the game. It's an RPG, after all...

Yes, it's just a(n) (over-)simplification. In actual game-plays, the players would mix these elements by choosing skills from these general categories just like in your example. However, I originally picked it up from the designers. The traditional Fallout character options could be divided into Combat/Stealth/Charisma(Speech) as you can see the three character templates but, for Van Buren, they were trying to add another path of Science. Personally, I don't think Obsidian is implementing the science specialist route in NV but they may use some of ideas from their lost project. That said, considering the years which some of them have spent on FO projects, I would be surprised if they hadn't have some good ideas but...well, I understand that they have legal obligations, too. Also, some of FO fans have this tendency of getting upset by any word from the designers, even when we don't have the whole picture.

 

Oh and btw, it may have been mentioned before but, combat skills affecting how much damage a weapon causes (ranged weapons) is just wrong. Should combat skills affect accuracy/spread? Definitely. Weapon maintenance/condition? Of course. But once it hits the spot, a mini nuke is a mini nuke. Shouldn't matter how hard you pull the trigger. Duh.

Logically, you are right. If you have played a game called Vampire the Masquerade: Bloodlines, however, you may change your opinion but I think Slowtrain nailed it: As a game-play, your option feels wrong.

[Nemo0071]

Oh and btw, it may have been mentioned before but, combat skills affecting how much damage a weapon causes (ranged weapons) is just wrong. Should combat skills affect accuracy/spread? Definitely. Weapon maintenance/condition? Of course. But once it hits the spot, a mini nuke is a mini nuke. Shouldn't matter how hard you pull the trigger. Duh.

Logically, you are right. If you have played a game called Vampire the Masquerade: Bloodlines, however, you may change your opinion but I think Slowtrain nailed it: As a game-play, your option feels wrong.

Yeah, I understand the whole thing about RPGs and their own dynamics. Like Amentep said, I myself have rolled with it in general. But;

I think this is the sort of thing that leads to being able to shoot a rifle into the head of anyone from 3 feet and have it take a dot of life off if you have no skills in the weapon.

When this happens in, say, an isometric view turn-based RPG, I don't mind at all. But when the game is in first person view, i.e. when genres get mixed, I think my expectations from the game gets mixed up accordingly. I haven't played Bloodlines, so I wouldn't know, but I think when the game is in FP POV, in real time etc., things start to get a bit more up close & personal (rather than a turn-based chess game) and only than it starts bugging me. Like the 3 feet or the mini nuke examples.

 

All in all, needless to say, it's just personal opinion. I love hearing what other people has to say.

[TwinkieGorilla]

Going all the way back to Morrowind, Bethesda seems to have a real problem with creating character models and faces that aren't pretty weird looking.

 

 

The "exploded faces" (as Tep so accurately calls them) of Oblivion are hopefully the low point of this sort of thing. FO3 was a big improvement anyway, though still plenty wonky with the faces and character models in many ways.

 

Yeah. I hate those goddamn faces. I shed a tear when the first New Vegas screens came out...I just thought "Oh no...not this ****ing **** again!" I think in order to describe the way I feel about MCA and Sawyer getting a chance to reincorporate Van Buren (amongst other things) within the context of Bethesda's already manufactured Fallout graphic-set is akin to eating a bowl of ice cream after having just thrown-up. The ice cream will likely taste very good, but I'll be unable to ignore the lingering taste of bile from my mouth. I am still having trouble deciding if vanilla-flavored bile is better or if i should just go and get some mouthwash and say c'est la vie, I tried.

[WorstUsernameEver]

Maybe it's just me but I saw nothing wrong with the faces shown in New Vegas screenshots.

Fallout 3 Vanilla on the other hand... I don't know, it seems like they didn't care if character had inhuman proportions.

[TwinkieGorilla]

Maybe it's just me but I saw nothing wrong with the faces shown in New Vegas screenshots.

Fallout 3 Vanilla on the other hand... I don't know, it seems like they didn't care if character had inhuman proportions.

 

They looked pretty much the same to me. I mean, when you look at them the first thing which comes to your mind is "Fallout 3". Maybe the proportions are tweaked a little better...but it's still the same graphic-set. Picking the "Bethesda" Fallout character faces (or animations for that matter) out of a line up in today's era of gaming would be embarrassingly simple. All you have to do is look for the design which appears to be created by an out-dated engine and a designer who's never looked up close at a human face.

[Enoch]

That's odd. I always assumed that the hardcore Fallout purist crowd really liked the taste of bile.

[TwinkieGorilla]

That's odd. I always assumed that the hardcore Fallout purist crowd really liked the taste of bile.

 

Y'know...random esoteric insults don't quite have the same *ooomph* on impact.