Dragon age discussion

[Oner]

It's worse than the Fihelis' house?! Gawd.

[Volourn]

"is a very good game, but the game has flaws... lots of flaws. big flaws"

 

Less, and not as bad as BG2 flaws. DA > BG2

 

 

 

"Which orc caves in which RPG?"

 

Think they're revering to NWN2 OC orc caves. Not the best caves for sure; but I think their crappiness is overrated. If you poorly deisgned Obsidian caves, best go with 90% of SOZ caves. BL has some bad ones, too. And, ARC aves are not impressive either.

 

 

 

Dunno why people are shocked that the Deep Roads are long, and have lots of fight. It's basically DA's equivelant of the Underdark, and throw in the fact they're obviously overrun by darkspawn, and it should be tiring to get through. I think they mixed it up pretty well. That said, this is one of those areas that seems to be well liked but still a minor vocal crowd let's it be known it's the 'worst dungeon ever'. Heh.

 

 

 

"Am a bit disappointed that there isn't more variety of Darkspawn Enemies, that would be my only criticism..."

 

More variety is always good; but what more could they add. Gelocks, hurlocks, hemlocks, manlocks, dmanlocks, denlocks, etc. My favorite type of darkspawn and most hated ones are those shriekers. L0L Fun times.

 

 

 

 

 

Anyways, been playing my 2nd time through with the mage origin. Impressed me more than I thoguht even after the dwarven noble. Lots of neat little stuff. So far, DA is 2/2 for origins thoguh I'm worried about a couple of origins that have really poor reputations. I do think they should have added a second only human, and a second mage origin for non circle mages'. Otherwise, coolio beanio.

[Kaftan Barlast]

I especially hate it when you have to run around the whole map to find what you're looking for. It should be quite easy to find the main story things, so you could do the other spelunking at your leisure if you wanted to. But Now you absolutely have to painfully search every damn corner of those awful caves.

[TheHarlequin]

> I was thinking about that, but the seduction skill didn't really seem like it was a vampire power in particular. The Vampire seduction ability of common lore seemed more like it'd be a vampire specific power rather than something more general, like Intimidate and Persuasion. Having said that, it's because of the vampire lore that I was able to accept it. I would have been more inclined to accept it as a Toreador blood skill, except that's not the way the WoD rules worked from what I can tell.

 

I can see all such skills persuasion, intimadate, etc all being amplified to your PC being a vampire. I don't know about you but even on my best day with my A game on max meeting a girl as a club, and 3 mins later sucking on her neck while a pretty good fantasy isn't going to happen. Only reasonible explanation for that, game setting wise, is your 'persuasion' is much more powerful (per se) then the mortals ability to do the same.

 

> Did you not see it from a million miles away that the Prince was playing you?

 

I thought EVERY vamp was out to get me. Prince included.

 

> Was it not obvious that the Nines you saw outside Grout's wasn't Nines?

 

Yes HOWEVER I didn't see what was going to happen or who/what 'he' was until the end.

 

> How could you not see that the Malkavian/Ventrue sisters were the same person?

 

Not during the first encounter though after the second my spider sense was going off.

 

> Bloodlines had good writing, but it's just as in your face with the foreshadowing. Unless you're an idiot I suppose.

 

See this is the difference. While I was able to pick up a scrap of 'yes the prince is untrust worthy' or 'WTF is going on with this fake nines' I had no idea where is was going to lead or where the story was going. DA OTOH is was clear not only what was going on with howe and logain but I saw exactly where is was going as well. What happened after you encountered both of them didnt surprise me as the writting was on the wall with both was very clear both long and short term. BL the subtly was MUCH more pervasive and kept me gussing until the story decided to fill me in not the foreshadowing. THATS the difference between the two. And yes if you couldn't tell howe was going to leave your family high and dry and you were going on the hunt for him nor logain turn on the king and abandon him at the battle field and that was going to set up you chasing after him then one must not be very well read on typical cliches or standard bioware plots. *shrugs*

 

> Bloodlines and Dragon Age are both quite similar in their story writing as far as I'm concerned. You can be a **** and say "didn't see that one coming" if it makes you feel better, but I find it humorous that you seem to have taken it personally.

 

*chuckle* not at all. I am simply pointing out what *I* find fault with story wise. You OTOH seem to take personal offense that I find BL better then DA on this level. Agree or don't I am not going to loose any sleep over it either way. But isn't that the point of a discussion to express ones view? You seem to be taking that and, in your head at least, adding some kind of context to my ills of biowares writing that does not exist (at least for me). Molehill into mountian much?

[Volourn]

"I thought EVERY vamp was out to get me. Prince included."

 

Heh. When dealing vampires, that's probably the wisest thing.

 

 

 

"But Now you absolutely have to painfully search every damn corner of those awful caves."

 

Actually, you cna skip over quite a bit in the Deep Roads. Many side tunnels can simply be ignored. Could probably cut DR time in nearly half doing so.

[Gorth]

I liked the Deep Roads for the most part. Almost expected to hear the "Dorns Deep" theme playing any moment

 

The combat had an artificial feel to it though, as if your were playing a long string of "set pieces", trying out different enemy combos only for the sake of providing tactical challenges, not because they would ever have naturally occurred in that way. Completely irrational, I know, but it was just a feeling I couldn't shake off.

 

The last fight was a a bit of a challenge. Orzammar was the second place I went and my party wasn't really built for, nor prepared for the fight and I didn't want to load an older save before starting on the Anvil. I wonder if the fight would have different if I had sided with the other side

I sided with the golem against Branka

 

 

Setting and atmosphere great, combat too contrived and monotonous in places

[TheHarlequin]

I liked the Deep Roads for the most part. Almost expected to hear the "Dorns Deep" theme playing any moment

 

The combat had an artificial feel to it though, as if your were playing a long string of "set pieces", trying out different enemy combos only for the sake of providing tactical challenges, not because they would ever have naturally occurred in that way. Completely irrational, I know, but it was just a feeling I couldn't shake off.

 

The last fight was a a bit of a challenge. Orzammar was the second place I went and my party wasn't really built for, nor prepared for the fight and I didn't want to load an older save before starting on the Anvil. I wonder if the fight would have different if I had sided with the other side

I sided with the golem against Branka

 

 

Setting and atmosphere great, combat too contrived and monotonous in places

 

I generally agree with your assessment but there were some really good designed aspects of the deep roads too in all fairness. Sadly they were not consistent thoughout is my issue. It did near the end seem artifical. Battles for the sake of battles. But as a whole I'd give the deep roads a solid B rating, some aspects a B+ or A-.

 

I left orzzy for the last treaty quest and glad I did. Can't imagine some of the fights lower level... I didn't play though but pretty obvious what happens.

If you side the branka the golem controls the other golems and attacks you. End result the same.

 

[Oner]

I can see all such skills persuasion, intimidate, etc all being amplified to your PC being a vampire. I don't know about you but even on my best day with my A game on max meeting a girl as a club, and 3 mins later sucking on her neck while a pretty good fantasy isn't going to happen. Only reasonable explanation for that, game setting wise, is your 'persuasion' is much more powerful (per se) then the mortals ability to do the same.

5 ranks in Subterfuge/Appearance would be the maximum any human would be able to achieve (or did they "retcon" this reference point later?), so I'm not surprised that you get the girls so easily.

 

Also, be cover your spoilers please.

[Volourn]

 

"If you side the branka the golem controls the other golems and attacks you. End result the same."

 

 

You still fight, but the result isn't the same. The consequences can be far different.

[TheHarlequin]

"If you side the branka the golem controls the other golems and attacks you. End result the same."

 

 

You still fight, but the result isn't the same. The consequences can be far different.

 

I didn't play that option

(sided with golem)

but let me take a shot in the dark what happens...

 

Side with

branka, golem makes his golems attack you. You then claim the forge with branka, go back to ozzy with branka, influence with her who you want to be king, then you get the new kings word to assist plus the anvil to add to the dwarf army other golems.

 

 

How close am I?

[alanschu]

Siding with

Branka lets you use golems in the climax

, and can greatly change Orzammar's Epilogue.

[~Di]

Another quick sidetrack: Banter. I've honestly never adventured with a quieter group in my life. I've only found two spots... one in Lothering, one in Orzammar... where anyone talks. So I painfully trot back and forth, beaming down alternate party members, just to find out what they have to say to each other. After almost two hours of this (mostly spent on the Loading screen), I got bored and gave up. Did anyone else have this problem, 'cause it sounds from some of the posts like their members were bickering with each other all the time.

 

Oh, and do you have to take Oghren into the Dark Roads in order to get him to join your party? I'd rather take my main man, Al.

Edited November 26, 2009 by ~Di

[alanschu]

I found there to be a lot of possible banter points. I can think of two specifically in Lothering, as well as several in Redcliffe right off the top of my head.

[TheHarlequin]

I can see all such skills persuasion, intimidate, etc all being amplified to your PC being a vampire. I don't know about you but even on my best day with my A game on max meeting a girl as a club, and 3 mins later sucking on her neck while a pretty good fantasy isn't going to happen. Only reasonable explanation for that, game setting wise, is your 'persuasion' is much more powerful (per se) then the mortals ability to do the same.

5 ranks in Subterfuge/Appearance would be the maximum any human would be able to achieve (or did they "retcon" this reference point later?), so I'm not surprised that you get the girls so easily.

 

Also, be cover your spoilers please.

 

If I recall my V:tM rules correctly (I may be wrong been awhile) mortals could not get to 5 dots in a skill/stat only supernaturals could. Which if my memory serves correctly helps validate my point.

[Oner]

Another quick sidetrack: Banter. I've honestly never adventured with a quieter group in my life. I've only found two spots... one in Lothering, one in Orzammar... where anyone talks. So I painfully trot back and forth, beaming down alternate party members, just to find out what they have to say to each other. After almost two hours of this (mostly spent on the Loading screen), I got bored and gave up. Did anyone else have this problem, 'cause it sounds from some of the posts like their members were bickering with each other all the time.

 

Oh, and do you have to take Oghren into the Dark Roads in order to get him to join your party? I'd rather take my main man, Al.

Nah, he joins you when you find the anvil.

I could've done the party banter at Lothering since the loading time was small there, but was lazy.

Oghren+Wynne haha

 

If I recall my V:tM rules correctly (I may be wrong been awhile) mortals could not get to 5 dots in a skill/stat only supernaturals could. Which if my memory serves correctly helps validate my point.

I remember reading some official modules and SWAT officers and their equals had 5 points in some skills, like firearms. Edited November 26, 2009 by Oner

[alanschu]

Sten and Morrigan have some fun ones too.

[TheHarlequin]

The idea that vampires can turn someone 'bisexual' simply by vampires is a tad silly and is not a part of the typical vampire lore.

 

a. Not what I said or implied (like normal putting imaginary words in my mouth)

b. if you knew modern vampire lore as much as you think you do you'd know vampires having a 'glam' like ability has been around for about 1000+ yrs in vampire writings/lore in one form or another.

[TheHarlequin]

Another quick sidetrack: Banter. I've honestly never adventured with a quieter group in my life. I've only found two spots... one in Lothering, one in Orzammar... where anyone talks. So I painfully trot back and forth, beaming down alternate party members, just to find out what they have to say to each other. After almost two hours of this (mostly spent on the Loading screen), I got bored and gave up. Did anyone else have this problem, 'cause it sounds from some of the posts like their members were bickering with each other all the time.

 

Oh, and do you have to take Oghren into the Dark Roads in order to get him to join your party? I'd rather take my main man, Al.

Nah, he joins you when you find the anvil.

I could've done the party banter at Lothering since the loading time was small there, but was lazy.

Oghren+Wynne haha

 

If I recall my V:tM rules correctly (I may be wrong been awhile) mortals could not get to 5 dots in a skill/stat only supernaturals could. Which if my memory serves correctly helps validate my point.

I remember reading some official modules and SWAT officers and their equals had 5 points in some skills, like firearms.

 

Really? hhmm might just be stats not skills then (which does make sense)... but I am pretty sure there is some limit on dots for mortals vs vampires. Unless I am totally thinking of another PnP game system... lol

[alanschu]

Thousands of years of vampire lore have vampires being able to seduce virtually any human?

[WILL THE ALMIGHTY]

Wait, I thought this thread was about Dragon Age and not Stephanie Meyer's sexual fantasies?

[Oner]

Command/hypnotize them actually. Which is a funny ability 'cause technically they could circumvent the "vamp can't enter your house unless you invite him" rule.

Sucks to be the victim I guess.

[alanschu]

Wait, I thought this thread was about Dragon Age and not Stephanie Meyer's sexual fantasies?

 

Point taken

[TheHarlequin]

Thousands of years of vampire lore have vampires being able to seduce virtually any human?

 

*puts mage cap on*

 

Here is trying to put several hundred pages of histroical vampire history/lore in a short internet post... heh

 

Vampires have existed in one form or another in pretty much every culture in most every time period in written human history. Starting long before xiananity in fact. Traditionally they, generally (depending on culture can vary widely but trying to use the most commen elements for the sake of clarity, berevity) were seen as solitary, grostque looking spirits that visited you in your sleep/dreams. They drained your of energy, life. (what today we call psychic vampires) those 'attacked' could rarely resist and were at the vampires mercy (aka glamed). Then over time/cultures the body fluid/blood element seeped into the lore. And then some cultures started seeing the vampires as physical entites and no longer spirit form. Still solitary, ugly and visted at night however when the person slept. Then in europe and eventually the american colony the church influenced the lore to the effect they were rising from the dead from graves. Either those working with the xian devil, possessed in life or body after death, and other such related explanations. Then the victorian era hit and writers took the solitary, ugly, monster vampires and 'cleaned' them up int heir stories. Made them sexual, beautiful preditors. Some of the weakness we know about were taken from the ancient lore (eg silver/garlic) others just made up/exagerated during this time period (running water, sun light). Same with their strenghts, traditions (coming out at night, draining, galem powers, shape shifing). Then by the late 20th century they evolved further into vampires being part of clans, groups, vampire hiearchy, etc. Credit to WW for really putting that concept in the general lore of vampires during the early 90s. They also helped foster the idea of werewolves vs vampires also but did not orignate it however.

 

So yes, the glam like ability has been with the lore of vampires for quite awhile across time periods and many cultures.

[Tigranes]

Spoilers covered. Harlequin et al, use the tags.

 

Banter was hit and miss for me. There was a lot of it, but half of it seemed to try too hard to play off the characters' quirks and end up a little Disney. I'm happy with everyone's characterisation in general, but it's certainly not a game to try and get witty quotes from.

 

My second playthrough hurtles towards the end, having just completed Orzammar. Still entertaining, though trying the different choices and such shows me two things - (a) yes you really can choose between 2 sides in every major juncture, which is nice, and sometimes the choice isn't very clear cut; (b) you don't really get hit very hard with the consequences of your choice, though.

 

edit: Oh, the bridge battle is a massiv eletdown to me because the spawning seems to be bugged. You finish off one group, then it takes an eternity for the next group to come, or sometimes they don't even come until you advance on the bridge to see what's holding them up. Hrm.

 

In fact, there are a couple of persistent bugs that really tick me off:

a) when there are a lot of enemies there isn't visual lag, everytihng moves at normal speed, but your abilities have execution lag. i.e. you hit Drain Life, you go through the animation, the cooldown starts, but the damage isn't taken until 3 seconds later. Obviously this means a lot of dead party members.

b) Dead party members don't get upa fter battle until you go and stand right next to them :/

[~Di]

I found there to be a lot of possible banter points. I can think of two specifically in Lothering, as well as several in Redcliffe right off the top of my head.

 

Oooh, where please? Because I must have missed all of them. I'm not kidding.