Kaftan Barlast Posted November 7, 2009 Posted November 7, 2009 The original concept behind DLC was to provide something that would keep interest in the game going past release. It was about keeping the game in the public spotlight longer, not about making money from microtransactions. That way it would stay on the top shelves and people would keep on buying it. And they would also know that if they bought your game, they would get more stuff to play after they finished the game, so its like an entertainment investment. money grubbing wasnt the idea DISCLAIMER: Do not take what I write seriously unless it is clearly and in no uncertain terms, declared by me to be meant in a serious and non-humoristic manner. If there is no clear indication, asume the post is written in jest. This notification is meant very seriously and its purpouse is to avoid misunderstandings and the consequences thereof. Furthermore; I can not be held accountable for anything I write on these forums since the idea of taking serious responsability for my unserious actions, is an oxymoron in itself. Important: as the following sentence contains many naughty words I warn you not to read it under any circumstances; botty, knickers, wee, erogenous zone, psychiatrist, clitoris, stockings, bosom, poetry reading, dentist, fellatio and the department of agriculture. "I suppose outright stupidity and complete lack of taste could also be considered points of view. "
Majek Posted November 7, 2009 Posted November 7, 2009 (edited) If you don't like DLC then you can just buy the whole game as a DLC. :D I got tired of waiting for Game.co.uk and just downloaded everything for just 25,9 pounds (Europe and Canada only). If that's not a great deal nothing is. And yes no box, no map but everything else is there. Edited November 7, 2009 by Majek 1.13 killed off Ja2.
Humodour Posted November 7, 2009 Posted November 7, 2009 I will probably wait for the inevitable GOTY! edition if I buy it at all. Fallout 3 Game of the Year Edition includes all the DLC and costs exactly what I paid for Fallout 3 with no DLC last year. If they have "two years of DLC" planned for Dragon Age, I'll wait two years and see what's on the shelf then. At that point, I might as well give it another year and come back when it's dropped to the $20-30 range. I get excited enough to buy a title at launch a couple times a year, tops. DLC schemes like Dragon Age's are ideal for dousing that excitement. That's a good idea.
Fighter Posted November 7, 2009 Posted November 7, 2009 Some day soon probably someone is going to get it really wrong by trying to sell something that's actually more or less essential for a fulfilling game experience separately from the game. I only hope that backfires miserably but am not optimistic. Also, from what I've read 'Warden's keep' is simply not worth the $7 Bio is charging for it.
Humanoid Posted November 7, 2009 Posted November 7, 2009 Some day soon probably someone is going to get it really wrong by trying to sell something that's actually more or less essential for a fulfilling game experience separately from the game. Bioware has already done that before with NWN Hordes of the Underdark. L I E S T R O N GL I V E W R O N G
Slowtrain Posted November 7, 2009 Posted November 7, 2009 Some day soon probably someone is going to get it really wrong by trying to sell something that's actually more or less essential for a fulfilling game experience separately from the game. Bioware has already done that before with NWN Hordes of the Underdark. Lol. :bowdown: Notice how I can belittle your beliefs without calling you names. It's a useful skill to have particularly where you aren't allowed to call people names. It's a mistake to get too drawn in/worked up. I mean it's not life or death, it's just two guys posting their thoughts on a message board. If it were personal or face to face all the usual restraints would be in place, and we would never have reached this place in the first place. Try to remember that.
Slowtrain Posted November 7, 2009 Posted November 7, 2009 Its good to see that there are some people on here (lots actually) who are skeptical of DLC and especially in-game purchasable DLC. Makes me think that the inevitable future of buying your way through a game piecemeal rather than playing your way through may not be so inevitable. Notice how I can belittle your beliefs without calling you names. It's a useful skill to have particularly where you aren't allowed to call people names. It's a mistake to get too drawn in/worked up. I mean it's not life or death, it's just two guys posting their thoughts on a message board. If it were personal or face to face all the usual restraints would be in place, and we would never have reached this place in the first place. Try to remember that.
LadyCrimson Posted November 7, 2009 Posted November 7, 2009 I don't mind if they want to periodically make new playable areas/quests (even if they're not true expansion-pack huge) and make them DLC for another $10 etc but anything resembling "buy a new suit of armor" or "get more stash space" for a few bucks...picayune, piecemeal type stuff...would irritate the heck out of me. Sure it's business & I don't have to purchase them - and I wouldn't - so I don't find it colossally offensive - but I'd still find it annoying. It doesn't, however, make me care about not purchasing the original game...if the game is fun/feels complete as purchased, of course. I think it would be enough of a purchasing power statement to just ignore the DLC, if you don't like the idea of DLC. If not enough people buy those, they'd get the message that people don't like that aspect, rather than they don't like the game entire. “Things are as they are. Looking out into the universe at night, we make no comparisons between right and wrong stars, nor between well and badly arranged constellations.” – Alan Watts
Gromnir Posted November 7, 2009 Posted November 7, 2009 (edited) am not seeing the problem. don't like it? don't pay. am not judging the game based on the dlc. am not particularly bothered by the camp shtick either. if in nwn2 some character in crossroads keep had offered tangential dlc, Gromnir wouldn't have seen problem. same thing if we were in ebon hawk or similar camp location. 'course, if we were in severed hand and character bars our way to top level o' tower w/o paying dlc toll, then we would be perturbed. similarly, if we were on telos, and that blocked off portion o' the underground base were accessible through additional pay, then we would be unhappy... "this door will open if you pay $5.99 now!" is nothing unethical 'bout it... and am not genuinely getting the "jarring" criticism either. we were slightly amused, and a little impressed, by ea's mercenary approach. if game is woeful short, then we will wonder at failure to include in core game, and will criticize ea for their greed, but until we play game we simply see the chuckle value... and if we likes game enough, we may end up giving ea their bonus quid to play a little more da. HA! Good Fun! Edited November 7, 2009 by Gromnir "If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927) "Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019)
Gorgon Posted November 7, 2009 Posted November 7, 2009 Why didn't I see this earlier. The reason the NWN# OC always sucks is because people will feel cheated and buy the adons. Na na na na na na ... greg358 from Darksouls 3 PVP is a CHEATER. That is all.
Zoraptor Posted November 7, 2009 Posted November 7, 2009 I'm another in the wait for the GOTY camp. Fallout 3 GOTY is about 40% of the purchase price if you bought the game and DLC separately, here, and no doubt DAO will be the same. And when it comes right down to it I've got a ton more games to play than I have time to play them, no patience for such things MS (or Bioware) points and certainly no sympathy for shameless in game money grubbing.
Gorgon Posted November 7, 2009 Posted November 7, 2009 I think the salesperson in the camp... It's a bit too much. It leaves the vanilla people feeling cheated. Like I did when I couldn't wait for the special edition of Total War with the extra units. It's the same reason the windows for tall people, windows for blue people, windows for skinny people sales strategy annoys me on a fundamental level. They aren't creating anything new, they are just chopping up what they have and selling it in portions. Na na na na na na ... greg358 from Darksouls 3 PVP is a CHEATER. That is all.
LadyCrimson Posted November 7, 2009 Posted November 7, 2009 I'm another in the wait for the GOTY camp. Fallout 3 GOTY is about 40% of the purchase price if you bought the game and DLC separately, here, and no doubt DAO will be the same. And when it comes right down to it I've got a ton more games to play than I have time to play them, no patience for such things MS (or Bioware) points and certainly no sympathy for shameless in game money grubbing. Someone else I think mentioned the signing up for social website or something in order to download...and now these MS points. I don't even know what MS points are, or how one would get them. Nor do I care. My impression is the MS points stuff is at optional, right?...you can just purchase the DLC w/cash instead if you want? If that's the case, it wouldn't bother me. But if you are going to have DLC, even the piecemeal kind, it should always either be available directly from the game install and from the official game site. The whole tying things into other services these days drives me nuts. “Things are as they are. Looking out into the universe at night, we make no comparisons between right and wrong stars, nor between well and badly arranged constellations.” – Alan Watts
Gromnir Posted November 7, 2009 Posted November 7, 2009 They aren't creating anything new, they are just chopping up what they have and selling it in portions. eh? so what? lord knows there has been about a thousand times we wished we could buy only 2 eggs 'stead 'o a dozen... and some o' the "options" we has gotten sold with cars in past has been irksome 'cause we were certain that the shortage o' particular models were contrived. even so, why is "new" significant? don't want it? don't pay for it. is not limiting you or compelling you... is no pressure involved and is not as if da only works if you buy their extra widget. you want cheese on your burger? that will be extra. HA! Good Fun! "If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927) "Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019)
Volourn Posted November 7, 2009 Posted November 7, 2009 I don't know why this is a 'moral' issue. It isn't. It's basically about a company trying to sell a product, and customers simply deciding if they wnat to spend the money on it or not. Yet, people are making it out to be some moral dilemma. Just ebcause theya re selling it doesn't mean you have to buy it. As for it being 'in game'... big deal. It's their game. They can make it as they want to, and if they feel like marketing a product so be it. For me, I saw the guy in camp, I talekd to him, and I moved on. And, chose not to buy it. Not a big deal. Not a moral issue either. *shrug* DWARVES IN PROJECT ETERNITY = VOLOURN HAS PLEDGED $250.
Gorgon Posted November 7, 2009 Posted November 7, 2009 I don't dispute their right to sell their creation any way they like, I just think smells bit too much like a scam. I don't like the idea of an in game character hitting me up for my credit card number so I can get on with his quest. It's cheap. Na na na na na na ... greg358 from Darksouls 3 PVP is a CHEATER. That is all.
Deadly_Nightshade Posted November 7, 2009 Posted November 7, 2009 I'm another in the wait for the GOTY camp. And I'll likely do what I did with NWN - buy the main game and expansions as they come out and then grab the final package after it drops in price. "Geez. It's like we lost some sort of bet and ended up saddled with a bunch of terrible new posters on this forum." -Hurlshot
alanschu Posted November 7, 2009 Posted November 7, 2009 (edited) I'm another in the wait for the GOTY camp. Fallout 3 GOTY is about 40% of the purchase price if you bought the game and DLC separately, here, and no doubt DAO will be the same. And when it comes right down to it I've got a ton more games to play than I have time to play them, no patience for such things MS (or Bioware) points and certainly no sympathy for shameless in game money grubbing. All you've done is said "Wait for a while, and the game is cheaper." This has always been the case in pretty much everything. I can buy the vanilla Fallout 3 for a fraction of the price that vanilla Fallout 3 was when it was released. Why anybody would think this is a revelation is completely beyond me. Someone else I think mentioned the signing up for social website or something in order to download...and now these MS points. I don't even know what MS points are, or how one would get them. Nor do I care. MS points are what you buy using XBOX Live. You can trade these points in for downloadable content. It won't affect you unless you're using an XBOX Live. Playstation has a similar points mechanic. AFAIK, you can simply buy the DLC on the PC. Edited November 7, 2009 by alanschu
alanschu Posted November 7, 2009 Posted November 7, 2009 I don't dispute their right to sell their creation any way they like, I just think smells bit too much like a scam. I don't like the idea of an in game character hitting me up for my credit card number so I can get on with his quest. It's cheap. It's no different than a posting on their message board saying "We have DLC available that unlocks the Grey Warden base." The idea that it seems different is purely a construction in your mind, that's built upon fallacious reasoning. Be against DLC sure, but functionally it is exactly the same in that, if you don't pay for the content, you don't get it. If you pay for it, you get it. The only thing that is different is the means of delivery. It can't be any more "cheap" than simply making an announcement on their website about it. At best you can argue that it's immersion breaking, but that doesn't make it any more "cheap." Unless you're trying to argue that it's unfair because people will be more likely to buy it or something.
Volourn Posted November 7, 2009 Posted November 7, 2009 "I just think smells bit too much like a scam." How is it a scam? You pay x dollas, and you get y in return. You know this up front. It's not a scam. A scam is more on the line sof you pay x for y, but get z instead (or nothing at all). THAT'S a scam. My moral outrage over the moral outrage iis starting to morally outrage me. Urgh!... DWARVES IN PROJECT ETERNITY = VOLOURN HAS PLEDGED $250.
Deadly_Nightshade Posted November 7, 2009 Posted November 7, 2009 It's no different than a posting on their message board saying "We have DLC available that unlocks the Grey Warden base." No, that's not correct as the forum is not in the game while the NPC salespeople are. "Geez. It's like we lost some sort of bet and ended up saddled with a bunch of terrible new posters on this forum." -Hurlshot
alanschu Posted November 7, 2009 Posted November 7, 2009 It's no different than a posting on their message board saying "We have DLC available that unlocks the Grey Warden base." No, that's not correct as the forum is not in the game while the NPC salespeople are. But they aren't making you pay for anything. At best you have a complaint about the immersion being broken. From a functionality standpoint, it's exactly the same. It's an advertisement for downloadable content. One is in game, the other is somewhere else. You can't cry because you "can't do the quest without buying the DLC" anymore than you cry about not having access to the quest without buying it off a webpage first.
Deadly_Nightshade Posted November 8, 2009 Posted November 8, 2009 From a functionality standpoint, it's exactly the same. It's an advertisement for downloadable content. One is in game, the other is somewhere else. No it's not. Just like the adverts for the Empire at War DLC -a pop-up whenever you start the game until you tweak a setting or but the stuff- it is an invasive, annoying form of advertisement that forces itself on the player. One does not have to read the forum announcements about DLC, one does have to see the in-game advert if one clicks on that NPC (and there is no warning about the NPC not being usable beforehand). The two are not equivalent at all. "Geez. It's like we lost some sort of bet and ended up saddled with a bunch of terrible new posters on this forum." -Hurlshot
Hurlshort Posted November 8, 2009 Author Posted November 8, 2009 The folks that keep saying "It's their game, they can do what they want" are missing the big picture here. DLC and microtransactions are a fairly new concept, and having in-game vendors is extremely new. Developers and publishers are out to make money, but part of that is customer satisfaction. Given that this is still in the experimental phase, we as customers have an opportunity to voice our concerns and possibly help guide the direction and form that DLC takes. Now I'm not arguing against DLC, as I think that would be a wasted effort. It is here to stay and it seems to be having enough success for publishers to ignore some complaints. But the presentation of it in-game is a fight we might be able to affect. So it is important to be vocal, let the publishers know. Then they can weigh that against the bottom line.
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