Politics in the game

[RPGmasterBoo]

What I would like to know is how far AP is steeped in US policy, from a plot perspective.

Meaning, does the game dabble in recent issues and does it follow established stereotypes or is the plot more or less detached from them.

 

The reason I'm asking this is that frankly playing a CIA agent is not appealing at all to me personally, but on the other hand if the plot has really little to do with usual views seen in these type of games (Splinter Cell, Tom Clancy games in general etc.) I might have no problem with it.

 

The usual views being the lone heroic American, saving us all from the terrible Russians/Islamists/Whoever along with horrendous oversimplification of the issues at hand. Everyone who's read a TC novel knows this lame set up.

[mkreku]

Yeah, the concern has been raised in earlier threads. I, too, am fed up with the American way of depicting themselves as heroes and the only just cause on the planet, whether consciously or subconsciously, but this world view seems so deeply ingrained in the common American mind that they no longer even react to/notice it. Kind of like the Chinese looking out across the borders, wondering in surprise why the rest of the world thinks they're oppressed.

 

I expect no more from Obsidian (it's not really their job, after all) so I'll settle for snorting derisively while playing the game. Because play it I will.

[RPGmasterBoo]

Kind of like the Chinese looking out across the borders, wondering in surprise why the rest of the world thinks they're oppressed.

 

 

 

I expect no more from Obsidian (it's not really their job, after all) so I'll settle for snorting derisively while playing the game. Because play it I will.

 

True but staying away from stereotypes is what gained them their reputation, all the way back to Torment. No reason so screw that up now. Not that I can comment on that, what we need is a dev comment. (hopeful)

[Slowtrain]

US developers working out of the US are probably going to make games that are influenced by a US mindset, no?

 

You can't take it too seriously.

 

 

Although I freely admit to loving STALKER because it was free of the tendencies of US games. Which is refreshing, though not inherently better or worse.

 

Politics in these games is all just so much mindless twaddle.

[Oner]

I don't mind it if it's not rubbed under my nose every 5 minutes.

Random example: THE REAL AMERICAN HERO

[RPGmasterBoo]

US developers working out of the US are probably going to make games that are influenced by a US mindset, no?

 

You can't take it too seriously.

 

I didn't but there's a cumulative effect with the years and years of it.

 

besides I somehow presume Role Playing game developers who created Torment and MoTB to be immune to crap of that sort.

 

I almost puked at the end of Call of Duty IV's single player, for the sheer idiocy, bias and misinformation in the story. It ruined my experience of what was essentially an excellent game.

[Slowtrain]

US developers working out of the US are probably going to make games that are influenced by a US mindset, no?

 

You can't take it too seriously.

 

I didn't but there's a cumulative effect with the years and years of it.

 

besides I somehow presume Role Playing game developers who created Torment and MoTB to be immune to crap of that sort.

 

I almost puked at the end of Call of Duty IV's single player, for the sheer idiocy, bias and misinformation in the story. It ruined my experience of what was essentially an excellent game.

 

 

I understand your point, but this is a game where the pc dual-wields smg and has unlimited ammunition. To assign any more importance to the political overtones than to the ridiculous weapon usage is giving the game too much credit. The devs are just trying to put together a story based on all the movies they've seen in their childhood.

 

I do wish that more games developed outside the US were easier to find in the US though. And sold well here.

[RPGmasterBoo]

I understand your point, but this is a game where the pc dual-wields smg and has unlimited ammunition. To assign any more importance to the political overtones than to the ridiculous weapon usage is giving the game too much credit. The devs are just trying to put together a story based on all the movies they've seen in their childhood.

 

I do wish that more games developed outside the US were easier to find in the US though. And sold well here.

 

Well No One Lives Forever proves that it can be done, (spy game without politics) even though its a parody... Just saying...

 

You won't see that soon. Its not really a conspiracy but games made out of the US often don't have the connections or the money to butter up the right people and push in the market. They dont get the advertising and they don't get the positive reviews.

Eg. I went to my local seller yesterday knowing he has a deal with Eidos to get the games they publish. I wanted to ask about the german RPG Drakensang and he tells me that they just didn't get it. I ask why, and basically it boiled down to Eidos bullying them to import other titles they can't really sell like Hitman/Tomb Raider/Kane and Lynch etc. etc. So we have a shelf full of that crap (3 different editions of Hitman anthologies, 5 editions of Half Life 2 from Vivendi...) and no Drakensang.

 

The Witcher sold a million copies practically by word of mouth only. And it has a 8.5 cumulative grade from a few dozen "professional" reviews, and 9.3 cumulative grade from several hundred gamer reviews (Metacritic). That tells you all you need to know how these games are treated.

Edited August 6, 2009 by RPGmasterBoo

[Slowtrain]

Well No One Lives Forever proves that it can be done, (spy game without politics) even though its a parody... Just saying...

 

 

Awesome game. Both 1 and 2.

 

You won't see that soon. Its not really a conspiracy but games made out of the US often don't have the connections or the money to butter up the right people and push in the market. They dont get the advertising and they don't get the positive reviews.

Eg. I went to my local seller yesterday knowing he has a deal with Eidos to get the games they publish. I wanted to ask about the german RPG Drakensang and he tells me that they just didn't get it. I ask why, and basically it boiled down to Eidos bullying them to import other titles they can't really sell like Hitman/Tomb Raider/Kane and Lynch etc. etc. So we have a shelf full of that crap and no Drakensang.

 

That's too bad. At the moment my tastes in gaming seem to match up better with games developed outside the US for whatever reason. Not that US games are all bad, but, I don't know, there's a certain mass-produced blandness to many of them. At least from the large developers. ANd even though Obsidian isn't a huge developer they are mainstream enough that I think some of that generic and bland quality will affect the game.

 

 

 

The Witcher sold a million copies practically by word of mouth only. And it has a 8.5 cumulative grade from a few dozen "professional" reviews, and 9.3 cumulative grade from several hundred gamer reviews (Metacritic). That tells you all you need to know how these games are treated.

 

 

ANother great game. For me the best cropg since, um, well probably Wizardry 8. WHich is kinda depressing.

[RPGmasterBoo]

That's too bad. At the moment my tastes in gaming seem to match up better with games developed outside the US for whatever reason. Not that US games are all bad, but, I don't know, there's a certain mass-produced blandness to many of them. At least from the large developers. ANd even though Obsidian isn't a huge developer they are mainstream enough that I think some of that generic and bland quality will affect the game.

 

They suffer from a rigidity of creation. By the time the intro is over you know how the game will play out to the end. You end up feeling cheated because you invested a certain amount of time and all you got was deja vu in return.

 

I'll go through the game definitely, for the story and characters.

 

ANother great game. For me the best cropg since, um, well probably Wizardry 8. WHich is kinda depressing.

 

I like you already. Can I get your card?

Edited August 6, 2009 by RPGmasterBoo

[blankers]

I'm really looking forward to pissing off some NPCs that resemble John Bolton.

[RPGmasterBoo]

I've been looking at Alpha Protocol videos, and I get what CrashGirl was saying. The game has a semi serious stylized approach, an obvious homage to action thrillers and spy movies. I thought it was going to be more conventional but I was wrong. Therefore the political aspect shouldn't bug too much as there is no real attempt at "real world" stories.

 

So, the mods can lock this one up as far as Im concerned

[GreasyDogMeat]

I'm hoping Mike can go into speeches about democracy, how much it rules and how pathetic the locals are for not embracing it while wearing his American flag underwear. It would also be awesome if he could shove baseball bats and apple pie into everyone's hands.

[213374U]

American flag underwear

Sorry, preorder only!

[Slowtrain]

I've been looking at Alpha Protocol videos, and I get what CrashGirl was saying. The game has a semi serious stylized approach, an obvious homage to action thrillers and spy movies. I thought it was going to be more conventional but I was wrong. Therefore the political aspect shouldn't bug too much as there is no real attempt at "real world" stories.

 

So, the mods can lock this one up as far as Im concerned

 

 

Orginally the game was going to be more serious and real world, but at some point some of the design philosphy for the game underwent a serious change of direction and now I think we're going to get a game closer to NOLF (though probably not THAT satirical/comedic) than might have been expected.

[GreasyDogMeat]

Obsidian realized that real spy work is kinda boring.

 

It can be kinda interesting though. Ever read The Man Called Intrepid? (Basis for James Bond)

[RPGmasterBoo]

Orginally the game was going to be more serious and real world, but at some point some of the design philosphy for the game underwent a serious change of direction and now I think we're going to get a game closer to NOLF (though probably not THAT satirical/comedic) than might have been expected.

 

You're reading my thoughts.

 

Not that I'm complaining, though I prophesy this action/movie style gameplay will get really old really fast, as more games start copying it. I couldn't bother replaying Mass Effect for all the cutscenes I'd have to skip.

[kreese12]

I wouldn't mind it so much if AP has a 'generic' spy feel to it.

 

In pretty much every genre of fiction or games, I prefer more creative takes on things, and artists trying new takes on things. But for the spy genre, for me, I sort of have to say that I find the regular trappings of the genre sort of familiar and enjoyable. Like for instance in a Bond flick, it would feel really odd if there wasn't a car chase. Or exotic locales. Or assault rifles at some point. Or if a main character spy was a homosexual (which could be interesting! but still.)

 

Out of almost every genre I can think of right now, when it comes to spy stuff, especially in fiction (including thrillers, such Dirk Pitt books) , I sort of enjoy the reliance on the conventions of the genre. Maybe this is just because there isn't as much spy stuff as say, fantasy genre stuff...

[blankers]

Obsidian realized that real spy work is kinda boring.

 

It can be kinda interesting though. Ever read The Man Called Intrepid? (Basis for James Bond)

I wouldn't mind a mission that had me pretend I was in the movie The Conversation or The Lives of Others but I'm a pretty boring guy with voyeuristic tendencies.

[Slowtrain]

I wouldn't mind it so much if AP has a 'generic' spy feel to it.

 

In pretty much every genre of fiction or games, I prefer more creative takes on things, and artists trying new takes on things. But for the spy genre, for me, I sort of have to say that I find the regular trappings of the genre sort of familiar and enjoyable. Like for instance in a Bond flick, it would feel really odd if there wasn't a car chase. Or exotic locales. Or assault rifles at some point. Or if a main character spy was a homosexual (which could be interesting! but still.)

 

Out of almost every genre I can think of right now, when it comes to spy stuff, especially in fiction (including thrillers, such Dirk Pitt books) , I sort of enjoy the reliance on the conventions of the genre. Maybe this is just because there isn't as much spy stuff as say, fantasy genre stuff...

 

 

Definitely. I wasn't really meaning any sort of knock on AP. I reserved my copy several months ago and am looking forward to it. I was really just commenting that US developed games in general feel sort of flat to me. I'm hoping AP will have some spark to it.

[kreese12]

Oh I didn't take your post as a knock on AP . I understand what your saying.

 

I also hope that the game's writing is solid and it isn't too predictable. Some of the characters I sort of expect to be generic, but I hope some of them are memorable as well.

 

Certainly many games feature bland characters . Many times I've read dialogue and thought I'd be able to do better. I have high hopes for AP though as Obsidian has a great resume of good RPGs.

[Cl_Flushentityhero]

I expect this level of scrutiny:

 

http://www.stratfor.com/

 

Failing that, I would accept having multiple ways to punch people in the throat.

[MacMichael]

US developers working out of the US are probably going to make games that are influenced by a US mindset, no?

 

You can't take it too seriously.

 

I didn't but there's a cumulative effect with the years and years of it.

 

besides I somehow presume Role Playing game developers who created Torment and MoTB to be immune to crap of that sort.

 

I almost puked at the end of Call of Duty IV's single player, for the sheer idiocy, bias and misinformation in the story. It ruined my experience of what was essentially an excellent game.

 

 

Maybe I'm over thinking this or missing the point, but wasn't CoD4 the one where

the US goes invading a country to capture one guy, why does that sound familiar, who isn't even there, and manages to get themselves nuked for the effort? While the world gets saved by the British and Republican Russians? Not the Americans.

That seems a bit satirical actually.

 

I have faith enough in Obsidian's writing skills that if they decide to deal with world politics in AP that they'll make it interesting. Not too much longer before that faith has the opportunity to get tested.

[GreasyDogMeat]

Maybe I'm over thinking this or missing the point, but wasn't CoD4 the one where

the US goes invading a country to capture one guy, why does that sound familiar, who isn't even there, and manages to get themselves nuked for the effort? While the world gets saved by the British and Republican Russians? Not the Americans.

That seems a bit satirical actually.

 

I have faith enough in Obsidian's writing skills that if they decide to deal with world politics in AP that they'll make it interesting. Not too much longer before that faith has the opportunity to get tested.

 

No kidding. One of my biggest disapointments of CoD 4. Could have atleast made the US campaign longer.

[MacMichael]

Maybe I'm over thinking this or missing the point, but wasn't CoD4 the one where

the US goes invading a country to capture one guy, why does that sound familiar, who isn't even there, and manages to get themselves nuked for the effort? While the world gets saved by the British and Republican Russians? Not the Americans.

That seems a bit satirical actually.

 

I have faith enough in Obsidian's writing skills that if they decide to deal with world politics in AP that they'll make it interesting. Not too much longer before that faith has the opportunity to get tested.

 

No kidding. One of my biggest disapointments of CoD 4. Could have atleast made the US campaign longer.

 

I kept wondering if my Marine would later show up, maybe get to crawl out of the city, but thinking back to it, I'd say it was a great way to end the US side of the campaign. It was a real "wow" moment.