I procrastinate too much.

[wesley2]

Wow, those are small classes, I haven't had classes that small since grade school! I guess some of my more specific-major-targeted classes in college

[Hurlshort]

Well, in California, k-3 used to be limited to 20, but with the budget cuts it will probably return to around 30. I teach Middle School and it's all over 30.

[Walsingham]

I just had a thought, what if ADHD is due to OVER stimulation of the brain at an early age. Early years stimulation is strongly correlated with a rise in positive features like intelligence and sociability. It manifests in these early years in a proprotionally higher degree of neuronal interconnectivity. However, go too far, and perhaps you have a system that is TOO interconnected.

[Meshugger]

Mes: You'd be feisty too if you had to contend constantly with people claiming ADHD is fake and you're just lazy whenever they find out you have it (Dagon did it in this very thread for example).

 

I still disagree with you, anyway. ADHD is overprescribed but not to the magnitude you imply. For starters, only 1/5th of patients with ADHD (which is itself about 5% of the population) are actually prescribed drugs. Of that 1% that's on stimulants, it's relatively easy for a doctor to tell if their diagnosis was correct or they got it wrong and something else is at play like semi-deafness or laziness: as I said, when you've got ADHD, drugs generally work - when you don't have it, you won't see a lick of improvement and indeed you'll get worse. Even assuming the doctor is unethical enough to try and continue prescribing a case where it isn't actually ADHD, I doubt the parents have the patience to pay for a drug that makes their kid more hyperactive, impulsive and inattentive because it's not meant for him.

 

The claims of ADHD being 'overdiagnosed' are greatly exaggerated. Yes, it's millions. With a genetic prevalence rate of 3% to 10% worldwide that's something like 500 million people with ADHD. In somewhere like America that gives you 15 million people with ADHD and 3 million on medication for it. It's unfortunate that so many people have ADHD, but I see little point fretting about the downfall of modern civilisation because the number is in the millions rather than the some other arbitrary magnitude like thousands. Medication of ADHD didn't start because society was 'boring' and capitalistic - it started in the 60's and 70's when researchers made breakthroughs in understanding ADHD, so I don't see how medication is a manifestation of anything more than a sound neurological understanding of the disorder.

 

Today, there isn't one class where there isn't atleast some kid have some sort of letter-disorder.

 

My average class size was 20 people. 5% of 20 is 1. I.e. the average class will have a kid with ADHD in it. And then you've got things like clinical depression, sociopathy, autism, deafness, etc. Bemoan the existence of kids with disorders in classes all you want, but they'll exist regardless of whether they're given treatment. At least if they're given treatment their lives can be better.

 

Let's see...

The second step evaluated the expectation that North America

[Maria Caliban]

Do what you like to do.

 

I tried, but no one pays me for masturbating, eating good food, and role-playing.

[Hiro Protagonist]

I need help. I have serious problems getting work done. I let myself get distracted by all kinds of things. If there's nothing around to get distracted by, I even get distracted by my own thoughts. I prefer everything over work, even work that I know is important. I have almost no motivation, or if I do I make up factors to counteract those ("what if I don't do it good enough?"). And worst of all, most of this is unconscious and sometimes I don't even notice it until hours later. Sometimes I try to force myself to work and I still can't. Or I work for a few minutes, and then I stop paying attention for a second and suddenly I'm knee-deep in video game. I end up not even being able to work at some things until the deadline gets too close, and I have to stress out over it. I'm sick of that.

 

Can anyone help me help myself? I have tried googling the subject but I find nothing useful.

 

Wow. You just described my childhood from 9 years old when I started playing the Atari 2600 thought the 80's playing my C64 and Atari 130XE computers right to when I was 18 when I left school. I didn't go to College or Uni because I failed at school and had to work in a bookshop but still kept on playing computer games with an Amiga and PC Games and also video games with my SNES. Throughout all those years, I read comic books and still do to this day. Bottom line for me is, I was a Slacker and had no motivation. Sure, I dreamed of things like, earning $50K a year when I left school, owning my own car before I was 21 and having my own home so I didn't have to pay rent.

 

I'm still a slacker but managed to make some good decisions in the 90's with my career (got out of the bookstore/retail sector) and also buying property helped. You don't know what's going to happen in life 10 or 20 years from now. I wouldn't be too concerned about it. I was never concerned about my future and still not concerned because I always believed and still do that 'everything will work out' and it has.

[Humodour]

I am not reaching you, am I? It is not about ADD and ADHD, it is about medicating a whole generation of kids with drugs, and future ones as well. What happened to special classes? What happened to the very idea that some kids just don't learn and experience the world as the rest of the class? Let them take their time, and if they are too active, let them participate in activities that will tire them eventually. Let them simply be.

 

You're not reaching me?! It looks like you didn't even read my post!

[Humodour]

I just had a thought, what if ADHD is due to OVER stimulation of the brain at an early age. Early years stimulation is strongly correlated with a rise in positive features like intelligence and sociability. It manifests in these early years in a proprotionally higher degree of neuronal interconnectivity. However, go too far, and perhaps you have a system that is TOO interconnected.

 

It's not fully mapped out yet, but it really seems to be the case that people with ADHD have brains that are actually under stimulated. That's why stimulants work: they produce enough dopamine and noradrenaline to get the levels up to normal (which is also why instead of speeding the person up they might just slow them down as they now have enough neurotransmitters to focus as a normal person does). Somebody with ADHD is hyperactive because nothing can hold their attention (stimulate them) for long. Normal people on speed are hyperactive because everything captures their attention (stimulates them). It's an interesting distinction.

 

Another thing is that about 80% of cases of ADHD seem to be genetic. What you suggest is, however, environmental.

[Walsingham]

OK. So to me it sounds like the (dammit, what's the name for the gaps between neurons?) suffer from a buildup of neurotransmitters. Monoamine oxidase ( which I know from studying risk taking) breaks down neurotransmitters.. and bingo, it seems other people thought of this first. However, what I would suggest by way of refinement is that the ADD child has normal production levels of MAO, but a far greater number of gaps between neurons. Synapses, that was it. Far more synapses. Not enough MAO to go around.

[Blarghagh]

I got pretty good grades on high school science classes, but I proceeded to study animation so those things mean very little to me.

 

Well, my local doctor's office is only reachable to make appointments from certain times a day, and I just missed it by two minutes. Now my next window of opportunity is next tuesday.

[Meshugger]

I am not reaching you, am I? It is not about ADD and ADHD, it is about medicating a whole generation of kids with drugs, and future ones as well. What happened to special classes? What happened to the very idea that some kids just don't learn and experience the world as the rest of the class? Let them take their time, and if they are too active, let them participate in activities that will tire them eventually. Let them simply be.

 

You're not reaching me?! It looks like you didn't even read my post!

 

It was read, and responded to accordingly.

Edited June 4, 2009 by Meshugger

[kirottu]

Do what you like to do.

 

I tried, but no one pays me for masturbating, eating good food, and role-playing.

 

Hmmm... Do all those three at the same time and record it for internets. People will pay to see it. Just remember to name it properly, like, "One girl two dragons" or something.

[Guest PoziomyPion]

"One girl two dragons"

 

 

Sounds like a possible tagline for Dragons Age trailer...

 

Sex+Violence+Epicness=GameTrailers will buy it.

Edited June 4, 2009 by PoziomyPion

[213374U]

I'm in the same boat. In my case it's just that I'm lazy as ****. Can't get any sort of work done that involves any degree of boredom, at all. Physical work I'm fine with, though.

 

Anyway, when things are looking bad, I resort to ancient wisdom:

 

"Hard work often pays off after time, laziness always pays off now"

[Asol]

I can't be assed to read the whole thread due to the bickering but sorry if i missed a detail.

 

I am reluctant to accept diagnosis of behavior unless it is an extreme and inhibiting, it is hard to see anything objective to qualifing and grading where and to what degree a persons mental electro-chemical action is making them incapable of this or that general line of functioning. The care provider has an invested interest in being a reliever of symptoms rather than purge them, particularly with our current pill society he is all but a bald pill merc. The important thing is responsibility, you don't need to role play a disability just because you may have this or that disadvantage or hardship.

 

Accept responsibility for yourself, in my opinion you have to 'raise your vibes' stop consuming garbage intellectually and dietarily(and socially...), if you need to produce more you need more energy and it has to come from changes somewhere. A realistic approach to improving diet and exercise with appropriate goals is a good start. Refined sugars and processed foods and other unhealthful things are a matter of individual tolerance, but they have negative effects and can definitely contribute to problems like you discribe...

This is where I would start and then look at other things in your life focusing on the only surrounding yourself with at least that which provides mutual support. Deadass associates will need to go eventually, sooner is better than later. In my opinion your difficulties working boil down to complaicency. Either your needs and goals are way to low or someone/thing else is meeting them for you or something. Treat your work as the hunting that puts food on your plate and unclouds your future and not chores that are unrelated to meeting your needs .

 

Basicly my suggestion is crap in crap out philosophy. Start paying attention to what is going in to the system so you can feel better and work better. Don't bomb yourself with things like soda and television and hang out with those that enable and sabotage. Start simple and acheivable then pick up the pace.

Edited June 5, 2009 by Asol

[Humodour]

OK. So to me it sounds like the (dammit, what's the name for the gaps between neurons?) suffer from a buildup of neurotransmitters. Monoamine oxidase ( which I know from studying risk taking) breaks down neurotransmitters.. and bingo, it seems other people thought of this first. However, what I would suggest by way of refinement is that the ADD child has normal production levels of MAO, but a far greater number of gaps between neurons. Synapses, that was it. Far more synapses. Not enough MAO to go around.

 

You're pretty close. As close as a lot of scientists, probably. Nobody's actually sure about the full specifics yet, but there's some sound theories. Part of the problem is that there's multiple types of ADHD presenting similar symptoms but with different neurochemical bases (although all revolving around the neurotransmitters dopamine and noradrenaline).

 

The most common theory/ADHD type, IIRC, is that people with ADHD have too many 'recyclers'. So they have normal production of dopamine and noradrenaline in the synapses, but it's destroyed too fast. Supporting that theory is the fact that things like ritalin (and less known, cocaine), which are reuptake inhibitors, are therapeutic for people with ADHD. On the other hand, some people (relatively rare) with ADHD don't respond all that well to ritalin but do respond to methamphetamine, which is mainly a synapse stimulator - it increases dopamine production. Non-methylated amphetamine (dex) is both a reuptake inhibitor and a synapse stimulator. It's also a mild MAO inhibitor (MAO is also recycler of dopamine, but at a later stage, and appears to be normal in ADHD). It's likely both mechanisms (production levels in the synapse, and reuptake outside the synapses) are at work in at least some types of ADHD.

 

What you suggested is essentially too many nerve/neuron connections (how else would you have too many synapses)? That'd mean too much dopamine produced, I'd think, and would also be easy to notice in the lab (same with too few connections). Related, however, is synapses which produce too much/too little dopamine. However, it's plausible some types of ADHD result from synapses which produce too little dopamine (again, stimulants all increase this production to varying degrees).

 

I've been contemplating asking my doctor to prescribe me selegiline, which is an MAO-B inhibitor and thus does a similar job to amphetamines (and indeed is slightly metabolised into them) but without the potential stimulant effects (e.g. insomnia, euphoria, comedown). Early test show it being roughly as effective as Ritalin, whist lasting 24/7 and improving mood (something I can assure you Ritalin does not do - in fact I'd say it does the opposite). An obvious upside is that, not being a stimulant, its abuse potential in the general populace is non-existent.

 

Here's an abstract of a scientific article on the basic concept of hypoarousal (lack of dopamine leading to lack of stimulation leading to stimulation seeking behaviour a.k.a. hyperactivity). This article mentions the concept of 'stochastic noise' which I've contemplated a bit, but neglected to mention previously (because I don't fully understand it, but am aware it's strongly related to how our brains calculate things and while seemingly chaotic is anything but random). Other studies have shown that stimulants work by refining nerve/synapse firing in the brain, making it more accurate, by altering 'random' (actually stochastic) noise levels, presumably via their interaction with dopamine. In people without ADHD, they make noise levels worse, probably because they make them fire too much - making these specific synapses less accurate (i.e. decreasing concentration/attention for those without ADHD).

http://www.citeulike.org/user/shoshin/article/2896407

Edited June 5, 2009 by Krezack

[Walsingham]

That's a very interesting abstract. If I understand correctly it's simply talking about under-stimulation, and over-stimulation, but with reference specifically to relevance to the subject. If this were true then presumably one might make one's natural environment more stimulating by learning more about it, and making the attached scheme more complex, and inter-related. This would make, say a cup of tea or a desk , more stimulating.