Obsidian making Fallout: New Vegas

[bhlaab]

I would like to see Fallout 3 remade in the Fallout 2 engine

 

 

I'm so glad you don't decide the future of Fallout.

 

 

I was joking. It'd be an interesting mod though.

 

If I did decide the future of Fallout everything would be right in the world, though

[Aram]

What I would like to see is a game that doesn't recycle the old nemeses of past Fallout games. You stopped the Super Mutants in Fallout 1, and by Fallout 2 they were no longer a menace. You blew up the Enclave in Fallout 2--that should have been the end of them. Fallout 3 brought them both back rather than invent a new threat. At least Fallout Tactics came up with Robots! instead. A raider warlord, a Communist revenge invasion, space aliens--something we haven't already seen. Canonically, the Super Mutants should be fossils by now, and I don't ever want to see the enclave again.

[Jaesun]

What I would like to see is a game that doesn't recycle the old nemeses of past Fallout games. You stopped the Super Mutants in Fallout 1, and by Fallout 2 they were no longer a menace. You blew up the Enclave in Fallout 2--that should have been the end of them. Fallout 3 brought them both back rather than invent a new threat. At least Fallout Tactics came up with Robots! instead. A raider warlord, a Communist revenge invasion, space aliens--something we haven't already seen. Canonically, the Super Mutants should be fossils by now, and I don't ever want to see the enclave again.

 

This.

[GreasyDogMeat]

What I would like to see is a game that doesn't recycle the old nemeses of past Fallout games. You stopped the Super Mutants in Fallout 1, and by Fallout 2 they were no longer a menace. You blew up the Enclave in Fallout 2--that should have been the end of them. Fallout 3 brought them both back rather than invent a new threat. At least Fallout Tactics came up with Robots! instead. A raider warlord, a Communist revenge invasion, space aliens--something we haven't already seen. Canonically, the Super Mutants should be fossils by now, and I don't ever want to see the enclave again.

 

I agree but Bethesda was probably afraid that removing those elements would infuriate Fallout fans.

[Kefeinzel]

you're right about them being afraid of removing it because of fear of fallout fans and that proves how deeply they misunderstood the fanbase..

Most of the people I knew wanted proof that bethesda could come up with interesting factions and characters themselves as proof that they would do right by the franchise and they failed really miserably..

Even the old factions they DID add were mangled beyond belief (white knight BOS)

[Bos_hybrid]

What I would like to see is a game that doesn't recycle the old nemeses of past Fallout games. You stopped the Super Mutants in Fallout 1, and by Fallout 2 they were no longer a menace. You blew up the Enclave in Fallout 2--that should have been the end of them. Fallout 3 brought them both back rather than invent a new threat. At least Fallout Tactics came up with Robots! instead. A raider warlord, a Communist revenge invasion, space aliens--something we haven't already seen. Canonically, the Super Mutants should be fossils by now, and I don't ever want to see the enclave again.

 

I agree but Bethesda was probably afraid that removing those elements would infuriate Fallout fans.

 

I don't really think that is going to cause them to lose sleep. Its more likely that they thought, what's the point in buying the Fallout IP if we don't use any of the groups/creatures that were in Fallout?

 

I was joking. It'd be an interesting mod though.

 

If I did decide the future of Fallout everything would be right in the world, though

 

Apologies thought you were one of those people that actually believed that. But I wouldn't play that mod, give me a FO mod from the NWN2 toolset or the upcoming DA one and I would be interested.

[cronicler]

GDM you are a bit off target there. I and a lot of GGoH people argued that Enclave, BoS and Mutants were not really good choices for the East Coast but to no avail

[Tigranes]

I'm just glad they didn't decide to reintroduce the Hubologists in the same way. They were hilarious in FO2 (even if jarring), but... well, look at Harold.

[cronicler]

Ugh don't remind me Sanfran Tig. That place was so hastily put together that nearly 3/4 of its quests and stuff was not used. Combined with the idiotic merchants and other corny stuff that place was a sore point.

[Gizmo]

Is it the case [here] that most everyone on these boards either did not play Fallout 1 or 2, or liked the series' setting and little else?

 

Did no one appreciate Tim Cain's GURPS engine (redone to SPECIAL)? Does absolutely no one think the third game should have continued to improve upon the series' premise instead of jumping ship for an Elderscrolls style PA simulator?

 

Is it truly the case that most playersjust want a First Person sandbox where they get to wander around and shoot stuff and pretend to be in the wasteland?

 

That's all I saw to do in the game was wander around killing random creatures, and not so random creatures, and a few gimmick gags like megaton or placing a mine in someone's pocket... BTW~ What if I wanted to give a bottle cap mine to an NPC? Is there any way to put it in their inventory without arming it? Even the player's choice to arm/and set timers was removed. IMO the scope of the game was heinously reduced to just that... a PA simulator [and of a misinterpreted setting at that.]

 

 

I have high hopes for FO:New Vegas, because its depressing not to... Its a good bet that FO:New Vegas will be a stand alone expansion for FO3, with an amazing story, intricate dialog ~Likely many concepts brought over from Alpha Protocol, and a few really neat twist.... but despite all that, I'd expect it to be the same crappy base game for most of the time spent.

*That is the first time that I have ever described it as such, but it really sunk in today. I've been playing Die By The Sword, and its simply more fun than Oblivion or Fallout 3 (and its fun in the way FO1 & 2 were ~despite being entirely dissimilar games ~and not even an RPG).

 

See, I play these games for the gameplay, and the characters... not to be the characters. I liked BG2 for Jan & Yoshimo, Minsc and Xar ~and Xan. I don't want to play at being any of them though. I like that the PC in DBTS has an attitude, taunts his opponents, and comments on his [my] mistakes. I'm not interested in living out his life or in his world, I'm interested in seeing his world and him and the rest in it. Fallout did that superbly.

 

With Fallout I could see the ravaged remains of the pop 50's culture, and the Vault Dweller entangled in the midst of all of it. I never pretended that I grew up in the vault, I just got to peek into the life of the next poor soul sent out to find the water chip, and follow his exploits across the locations and NPC's that he met along the way ~some friends some foes, some allies. Everything was with an element of distance and detachment ~and I liked that; It was a good part of the 1st and 2nd games (and in Tactics too). In FO even the conversations were conducted through a detached interface (they didn't have to do it that way, they could have done it just the way Bethesda did ~with a static background and a talking head).

FO3 forces an FPP vantage that both hides the vast landscapes and pushes you into

being

this baby/teen/adult from the vault [which no one can really identify with ~but it doesn't matter as the game takes no notice].

 

In FO3 players have lost the ability to carefully survey the battle and decide their best course for surviving along with their NPC's if they have them.

Its a bitter irony that FO is often accused of having had click-n-wait gameplay, and now it really is just point shoot wait, and shoot again gameplay and folks love it.

 

So if its true that most of the new players out there just want a 2nd life, well I can't identify with that, and I hold it a shame that a company would rewrite an established franchise as simpler, faster paced distinctly different game when they could have just as easily made the same game as a spin-off title with a non-digit name that none of their existing fans would have been the wiser of or would care if they did know.

 

What I see is that future installments of my second favorite franchise will no longer provide even a bit of the experience that drew me to the series in the first place. I tried playing FO3, but could not stomach it past Megaton so I turned to GECK modding. At this point (other than art ~that's the only redeeming feature of the money spent.)

Edited May 14, 2009 by Gizmo

[Aristes]

I'm fine having a super mutant presence, but not a major one, in the game. The enclave I hope will only be something known by reputation. However, since we had Enclave in Fallout 2 and 3, I think we're going to see them in some form or another in Fallout: New Vegas. Nevertheless, like super mutants, I hope they can be kept largely in the wings, assuming they get any stage time at all.

 

What I'd really prefer is that there is no nemesis at all. Instead, have various factions with whom the PC interacts to create the story. You've said we don't want a super tight story. Okay, you've convinced me. Rather than a super tight story, then, have bunch of interwoven stories surrounding different factions. Say, maybe five big factions or so. Maybe more.

 

1. Village Warlord. He's managed to claw out a stretch of crop land with just enough water to grow food and sustain the population. He doesn't really care about gaining more power, but he's willing to take what's easy. He's just not willing to risk what he already has in order to fight for more. Life is pretty good and the people are generally within acceptable levels of discontent. Some of them chafe under his rule, but most of them remember days of anarchy and killing and, right now, the warlord is better. Sure, he takes too much and drafts even very young men into his army when things are tough, but the community is slowly growing and even prospering.

 

2. Raider Warlord. The only thing that separates this guy's outfit from other raiders is that he demands and receives more discipline from his fighters. As a result, his raiders range far and wide with more success than the other raiders. In fact, his band has become swollen from the ranks of the defeated. More than just a petty raider, the Raider Warlord seeks to establish a permanent base of operation, but the larger settlements have sufficient power to keep him on the run. Even worse, his success has meant that his small, well trained band of raiders has become a large, sloppy mob. The core of his band is still extremely loyal, and the Raider Warlord is crafty. He despises weakness, but he respects strength and intelligence. He will accept new members into his band and is particularly keen on finding an outsider to help provide internal intelligence on the newer members of his army. If that outsider can be trusted to carry out clandestine missions in enemy territory, so much the better.

 

3. The City. The City is the place with all of the muscle. The leaders, a small group of 'council members' who represent various parts of the City, come to power in a variety of ways. Two areas have free elections, one has more or less universal franchise while the other only gives a vote to citizens with a certain amount of property. One is represented by the remnants of the brotherhood of steel in the City. One is more or less 'tribal,' although it is comprised of more than one actual family. The final one is represented by a local warlord. The City has a lot of internal strife, but it has always managed to pull together to face common enemies. Currently, the Raider Warlord is their biggest concern and they've gone to great lengths to infiltrate his organization. The Village Warlord is too remote and powerless to be much of a concern, but many elements in the City don't trust him in their neighborhood and wish to see his outfit infiltrated at the very least and neutralized in way possible as the best course. The City is keenly interested in the Lake, but doesn't have the power to take it outright and has vested commercial activities that would suffer greatly if it tried.

 

4. The Lake. Lake mead has created a large community. Not quite the size of the City, it still boasts a variety of commercial endeavors, from farming to manufacture. The Lake is more or less a monarchy in which the nobles share power. The people have limited say in the form of large meetings that convene biannually. These meetings, Public Affairs, negotiate taxes as well as military and civil service. There has been some strife between any of the branches of power, but things have gone relatively smoothly until the current Queen took power. She has craftily started to reassert her dominance of political power. Nevertheless, she is still faced with a strong nobility that has lately managed to convince the general populace to side against her. There is a Public Affair scheduled this year.

 

5. The Swarm. Yes. It's finally happened. The Rad-Scorpions, descendants of the legendary King rad scorpion, have achieved a level of intelligence that allows them to transcend their insectoid origins. Now they plot and contemplate how to approach humanity. In peace? ...Or in war? Right now, it bides its time. Waiting. Considering its moves like pieces on a chess board.

 

Of course, none of these suggestions are really serious. No doubt suggesting them in this thread would make them unusable anyhow. As a general template, I think it does what I want, though. There is a more or less natural antagonist in the Raider Warlord. There is a more or less sympathetic group in the City, although many folks will side with the Lake. Each faction has enough internal turmoil to support quests within its domain. The strongest internally is the Village Warlord while the weakest internally is the Lake. However, from an outside view, the City and Lake are the most difficult adversaries. Once again, my point isn't that this is a great idea for New Vegas. However, I like these ideas as the sort of game I want to see. There isn't any one bad guy and there is plenty of opportunity for the player to choose sides and impact the world. No didactic overtones. There is a case to be made for every side. Certainly, the hardest is probably the Raider Warlord, but I can make several cases for him now and that doesn't even take into account his characterization, which I haven't even tried to figure out at this point.

 

Finally, THIS is why we need more threads. I finally finish writing up this idea and I have to follow one of Gizmo's erudite posts on a different topic entirely. Damn you all!

[Gizmo]

Finally, THIS is why we need more threads. I finally finish writing up this idea and I have to follow one of Gizmo's erudite posts on a different topic entirely. Damn you all!

 

I'll second that one! There should be at least two...

[cronicler]

Err a little point Aristes; the place is a desert. The faction that controls the remains of the dam probably has the region by its balls. It wouldn't suprise me to see a somewhat shaky balance between wildly different factions and a very uneasy peace at the start of the game. As you start your deeds you begin some small shifts and by mid-game your actions act as the feather that broke the camels back. Endgame would be about the mess you created and "hidden" factions getting out into the open. The tendrils of far away places like Patriots(Someone had suggested these a few threads back ), Enclave (if it is rehashed one more time), BoS(Old Xenophobic thech hunting bastards not Paladiins), NCR, VaultCity, Reno can be given in the story as small organizations, trade missions and hidden scouting outposts that you can convince to support you/trade with you etc.

 

Mainly I would like to see the PC manipulating "Local" factions like XXX traders vs YYY traders, This Mercs vs That Raiders etc...

[Aristes]

I present it as more of a template than as the actual arrangement. However, there is a natural aquifer in Las Vegas. Furthermore, with the population drastically reduced, the aquifer might grow and even flow over ground once more. These events are well after the nuclear war, so who knows what might have happened. If anything, it's more likely Lake Mead, as a man made lake, would have dried up.

 

I'm Las Vegas born and raised, so I'm quite familiar with the desert.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Las_Vegas_Springs

[bhlaab]

The whole game I was wondering "I wonder how they'll explain the super mutants being back!" I was honestly intrigued.

 

And then Vault 87 crapped all over that. "They're vault experiments!" is such an awful and cheap explanation. For one thing I killed about 800 of them up to that point, for another thing how is that a social experiment and where in gods name do the centaurs fit in? These aren't even little nerdlinger details I'm harping on! That's basic, "You obviously thought this through for about 5 minutes", awful writing.

 

Talk about plot holes. My favorite part was the Codex/NMA review that more or less started out with "Radiation in water will be filtered out through soil in less than a year" About 10 minutes of looking on wikipedia and they've DESTROYED the entire plot.

 

That's what annoyed me the most about the game's story. they set up so many intriguing questions and then all the reveals were either lame or nonexistant. The president was a computer all along? Wow, that would be a really unpredictable twist if I hadn't predicted it almost immediately.

Edited May 14, 2009 by bhlaab

[cronicler]

Hey don't bash me. My sole knowledge of Vegas comes from corny Mafia Novels and a lot of Written material about the place (And Poker tournaments on Eurosport ).

Not a US citizen either. My knowledge of non Navy States are not very good other than generics.

 

Anyway thanks for that link. It would make the game simpler to use that actually. Let the Oasis be the trouble spot and leave the remains of the Dam and Military Installations / Deep Bunkers for other "sinister" factions Like BoS, Gunrunners, Mercs, Raiders, Mob etc

[Aristes]

Oh, I'm not bashing you. I think there are a variety of ways to approach it. The dam breaks up and the water is lost. The dam is intact and there are two water sources. The dam is intact and the oasis water is unusable. Etc. Really, I think the design team should have some license.

 

Mostly, I was just saying it's feasible for a city faction, you know? The aquifer is waaaay low. I mean, we've been raiding that water source for a long time. I don't know how much good even a couple hundred years would do, but it's an option at least.

[Tagaziel]

Fo3's story was an incoherent mash of plot devices from all previous Fallout games, FO:BOS in particular (FEV Vault, anyone?). A real shame, because Beth showed they have original ideas, like the Commonwealth - MIT, sealed off center of research amidst the horror that is the Commonwealth. Manufactures lifelike androids. Invasion of the Body Snatchers plot, anyone? Would be far more interesting than retreading Fo2.

 

Or include robots, like Wasteland and FOT did. It'd be far more fun to stop a new, robotic menace, not to mention, the Behemoth from FOT is actually scary, unlike the oversized gorilla in Fo3.

[cronicler]

No problem! The less water there is the more fun there will be! Think about all the possible fights that would "spring" from the wells drying up a bit. Also in VB documents (the place were Chinese stealth suits were taken from) there was a nice part about Black Ghosts trying sabotage attacks on several places including Hoover Dam.

 

I would love to see a half broken, filled with silt but still majestic bit of engineering and the little sickly shallow pool that is still a source of life...

 

Edit: While the mention of robots first caused a reaction like "NO! NO! F. NO! NOOO!" that is mostly based on my personal tastes, or more correctly the way my interest in robot stories was burned down to ashes with pathetic "new" robot media like I Robot and Terminator etc. On a more rational level I have to accept that those walking Tanks were very scary opponents.

I would like to see some "Boss" battles facing creatively "big" bosses. A Behemoth class Robot, An AFV (Something ranging from a Bradley to Abrahams), a Sniper sequence like the old mad guy at minefield....

Edited May 14, 2009 by cronicler

[HoonDing]

Fo3's story was an incoherent mash of plot devices from all previous Fallout games, FO:BOS in particular (FEV Vault, anyone?). A real shame, because Beth showed they have original ideas, like the Commonwealth - MIT, sealed off center of research amidst the horror that is the Commonwealth. Manufactures lifelike androids. Invasion of the Body Snatchers plot, anyone? Would be far more interesting than retreading Fo2.

 

Or include robots, like Wasteland and FOT did. It'd be far more fun to stop a new, robotic menace, not to mention, the Behemoth from FOT is actually scary, unlike the oversized gorilla in Fo3.

True, but FO3's story is what it is to introduce new players to the Fallout universe. The Commonwealth is probably going to be central to an eventual FO4, considering how Bethesda always places references to future sequels in their games.

[cronicler]

Actually the whole Cyborg-Blade Runner part and Canada was a bit... weird. I mean US attacked and pillaged the place in the Pre WW3 days, didn't they?

[jero cvmi]

Multiple threads would be nice. Having one thread makes it difficult to folow a discussion unless you're online all day.

However, after ~2000 posts and zero news, i think the existing threads should break into subjects, and any new threads should have a little news in them.

Yet another "Obsidian makes fallout: New Vegas: discuss weapons / quests / gameplay /setting etc. would be a little reduntant IMO.

 

Also, Gromnir:

 

I think Bloodlines has very little to do with Anne Rice and all the goth stuff. It stroke me as more of a parody.

 

Its writing is your standard horror b-movie ripoff, but it's funny, well written and honestly, it maintained my interest enough to not skip one word of text, contrary to Fallout 3 which felt like Beyonce singing Opera: Shallowness trying hard to take itself seriously.

 

In all seriousness, it's sad that a fresh high budget blockbuster like Fallout 3 falls short in comparison to a half finished game from 5 years ago, but i'd take Bloodlines over Fallout 3 any time as an RPG AND as a shooter. And the patched PC version is less buggy than Fallout 3 XBOX version, incredible isn't it?.

 

Not comparing Masquerade pen and paper ruleset vs. Bethesda's crippled S.P.E.C.I.A.L.

 

Not mentioning the Amazing technologic achievement of being able to see where you aim while in 3rd person :sigh:

 

And, Bloodlines doesn't have portable nukes.

 

 

Patch and replay, highly recommended.

[Tagaziel]

Fo3's story was an incoherent mash of plot devices from all previous Fallout games, FO:BOS in particular (FEV Vault, anyone?). A real shame, because Beth showed they have original ideas, like the Commonwealth - MIT, sealed off center of research amidst the horror that is the Commonwealth. Manufactures lifelike androids. Invasion of the Body Snatchers plot, anyone? Would be far more interesting than retreading Fo2.

 

Or include robots, like Wasteland and FOT did. It'd be far more fun to stop a new, robotic menace, not to mention, the Behemoth from FOT is actually scary, unlike the oversized gorilla in Fo3.

True, but FO3's story is what it is to introduce new players to the Fallout universe. The Commonwealth is probably going to be central to an eventual FO4, considering how Bethesda always places references to future sequels in their games.

 

If that's what it is, then it is stupid. Who in their right mind makes a full out game to introduce players to the universe? There exist other ways to acquaint people with elements of the previous games while retaining logic and plausibility in the plot.

[GreasyDogMeat]

Bloodlines was a bit of a mess on release... not to mention its much less complex in scope.

 

It has it's moments but I just had more fun with F3.

[Promethean]

Mitsoda described Bloodlines as a serious story yet one where they tell you a **** joke or two along the way. Its usually the stuff outside the plot (email, ads, references) that is really funny. Like arguing witht he stop sign or the Friggin' Chicken ad.

 

And no, WoD isnt like Anne Rice, though one of the clans was modeled after that type of vampire.

 

Resident Evil 5 is b movie horror writing. Too bad its just an action game now.

Edited May 14, 2009 by Promethean