GreasyDogMeat Posted May 12, 2009 Share Posted May 12, 2009 I feel sorry for Obsidian. No matter what they do, unless they completely convert the F3 engine to emulate the original isometric turn based originals purists will probably gripe about it as much as F3. Or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aram Posted May 12, 2009 Share Posted May 12, 2009 The lack of the ending screens with Ron Pearlman narrating, one of Fallout's most remarkable trademarks, was loathsome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
entrerix Posted May 12, 2009 Share Posted May 12, 2009 im really worried about my family so you say my family is dead how are you today? Killing is kind of like playin' a basketball game. I am there. and the other player is there. and it's just the two of us. and I put the other player's body in my van. and I am the winner. - Nice Pete. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreasyDogMeat Posted May 12, 2009 Share Posted May 12, 2009 Agreed, bring back the endings by location. Mask of the Betrayer's ending was more Fallouty than F3. As for your examples CrashGirl, yeah there were some odd dead ends but not every multiple choice ending came to a anti-climactic conclusion like that. You could also save the Sheriff's life if you were quick on the draw against Burke, though the Sheriff's thanks are also anti-climactic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gizmo Posted May 12, 2009 Share Posted May 12, 2009 (edited) I feel sorry for Obsidian. No matter what they do, unless they completely convert the F3 engine to emulate the original isometric turn based originals purists will probably gripe about it as much as F3. Or not. No That's not it... The engine is very flexible [no emulation needed ]... but it need not be a Fallout 1 clone... (Though I'm having a blast myself ) Edited May 12, 2009 by Gizmo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slowtrain Posted May 12, 2009 Share Posted May 12, 2009 (edited) I feel sorry for Obsidian. No matter what they do, unless they completely convert the F3 engine to emulate the original isometric turn based originals purists will probably gripe about it as much as F3. Or not. While I am sure there are a few Fallout fans to whom this statement could be accurately applied, I think many would be greatly satisfied with much less than that. As for myself, ultimately the only person that I can speak for confidently, I could care less if it is like Fallout 1 or 2. I just want to see less of Bethesda's design idelogoies and more of Obsidian's. Mostly, I just can't stand how Bethesda has come to interpret the crpg genre. They haven't made a good game since Daggerfall. IMO. Edited May 12, 2009 by CrashGirl Notice how I can belittle your beliefs without calling you names. It's a useful skill to have particularly where you aren't allowed to call people names. It's a mistake to get too drawn in/worked up. I mean it's not life or death, it's just two guys posting their thoughts on a message board. If it were personal or face to face all the usual restraints would be in place, and we would never have reached this place in the first place. Try to remember that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aram Posted May 12, 2009 Share Posted May 12, 2009 The worst case I can think of is the case of killing Harold. You're approached by two people, one wants you to make the forest stop growing so it remains isolated and the other wants it to grow faster which runs the risk of people finding and exploiting it. It makes absolutely no difference which you choose. We couldn't come back shortly later and see the consequences. The reward wasn't different. A simple ending screen telling you the consequences would have sufficed, but we got nothing. What was even the point? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redfield Posted May 12, 2009 Share Posted May 12, 2009 Here I was expecting some sort of well thought out response instead of generic 'I hate Bethesda and everything they do which means Fallout 3 sucks no matter what' response. Anyone who thinks the game has anything positive is Serves you right for expecting a thought out response Seriously though, you enjoyed Fallout 3 and thought it was a good game, and that's all that really matters. And for the record, a crapload of other people share your opinion as well. There are people on here that would *love* to make you believe otherwise through their condescending remarks, but for all their damnation of Bethesda and the game, they won't be changing your mind about Fallout 3 any more than you'll change theirs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreasyDogMeat Posted May 12, 2009 Share Posted May 12, 2009 (edited) @ CrashGirl: Hey, we can agree to disagree. Atleast you come back with decent arguments and points instead of ignoring me like some sort of for defending Fallout 3. @ Aram: I didn't really mind the Harold quest. You're pretty much told what the outcome will be many years before that outcome comes to pass. I chose not to kill him and managed to convince him to appreciate the company he kept and his role. I found it satisfying but I can see your point. Edited May 12, 2009 by GreasyDogMeat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slowtrain Posted May 12, 2009 Share Posted May 12, 2009 Agreed, bring back the endings by location. Mask of the Betrayer's ending was more Fallouty than F3. As for your examples CrashGirl, yeah there were some odd dead ends but not every multiple choice ending came to a anti-climactic conclusion like that. You could also save the Sheriff's life if you were quick on the draw against Burke, though the Sheriff's thanks are also anti-climactic. Yeah, but I was playing a good pc, who went to get the sherriff and wasn't about to shoot anybody. :shrugs: It didn't bother me that Simms got killed. The utter lack of reaction from his townsfolk and even his son was just pretty weak. Personally, I think my pc should have been held rsponsible for getting simms in a position that got him killed and probably run out of town by angry citizens. Or something. Anything, really. The entire "disarm the bomb" quest was stunningly inconsequential. Notice how I can belittle your beliefs without calling you names. It's a useful skill to have particularly where you aren't allowed to call people names. It's a mistake to get too drawn in/worked up. I mean it's not life or death, it's just two guys posting their thoughts on a message board. If it were personal or face to face all the usual restraints would be in place, and we would never have reached this place in the first place. Try to remember that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Syraxis Posted May 12, 2009 Share Posted May 12, 2009 (edited) So Aram likes guns, CrashGirl thinks F3s guns were poopy, and SteveThaiBinh thinks guns are boring. Any other opinions? Yeah, the raiders in F3 looked like they just walked out of a mosh pit at a punk show. Please don't repeat that, it was stupid. Also: make New Vegas 'tyte' I ordered 300 rounds of surplus 8mm Mauser and UPS left it on my doorstep with no signature w00t. Do you own that Mauser or just rent it out at the gun range? Edited May 12, 2009 by Syraxis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveThaiBinh Posted May 12, 2009 Share Posted May 12, 2009 EDIT: Sorry, the conversation switched to guns during the interim. Carry on. These aren't the droids you're looking for. No, no, we don't have to talk about guns, we can talk about something else. Anything else. Tulips! Do you guys like tulips? Sorry, joke, on account of my not being very interested in guns. I guess the thing is, I tend to accept games for what they are and play them. For that reason, one of the worst things I can say about a game is that I didn't finish it. I finish nearly every game and try to find something good in before I'm done. I strongly agree, and try to practise this myself. After all, I like RPGs and there aren't that many RPGs released in a year. If I manage to talk myself out of liking half of them because of one or two flaws, even serious flaws, I'm only hurting myself. I think a lot of people are the same. "An electric puddle is not what I need right now." (Nina Kalenkov) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slowtrain Posted May 12, 2009 Share Posted May 12, 2009 (edited) @ CrashGirl: Hey, we can agree to disagree. Atleast you come back with decent arguments and points instead of ignoring me like some sort of for defending Fallout 3. It's cool. I've got no problem with people liking it and defending it. I've also got no problem with people disliking it and attacking it. That's what these boards are for, after all. None of us are going to agree in the end, but that's all part of it. Edited May 12, 2009 by CrashGirl Notice how I can belittle your beliefs without calling you names. It's a useful skill to have particularly where you aren't allowed to call people names. It's a mistake to get too drawn in/worked up. I mean it's not life or death, it's just two guys posting their thoughts on a message board. If it were personal or face to face all the usual restraints would be in place, and we would never have reached this place in the first place. Try to remember that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreasyDogMeat Posted May 12, 2009 Share Posted May 12, 2009 Agreed, bring back the endings by location. Mask of the Betrayer's ending was more Fallouty than F3. As for your examples CrashGirl, yeah there were some odd dead ends but not every multiple choice ending came to a anti-climactic conclusion like that. You could also save the Sheriff's life if you were quick on the draw against Burke, though the Sheriff's thanks are also anti-climactic. Yeah, but I was playing a good pc, who went to get the sherriff and wasn't about to shoot anybody. :shrugs: It didn't bother me that Simms got killed. The utter lack of reaction from his townsfolk and even his son was just pretty weak. Personally, I think my pc should have been held rsponsible for getting simms in a position that got him killed and probably run out of town by angry citizens. Or something. Anything, really. The entire "disarm the bomb" quest was stunningly inconsequential. That lack of reaction was also another reason why I HATED the ending I convince the Brotherhood of Steel Paladin to sacrafice herself and she shows less fear/apprehension than she would for a dentist appointment. They obviously must have expected the player to have some emotional attachment to this character but nothing interesting was done with her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slowtrain Posted May 12, 2009 Share Posted May 12, 2009 I guess in the end, I would love to see Obsidian really concentrate on a single major story that has conseqneces and ramifications on the gameworld and not spend so much (or even any) time on these minor sidequests that don't really have any significance. Turning the sidequests into related sections of the main narrative would be OK. One major, well thought out, and complex narrative, combined with a decent amount of freeform exploration would be a good combination, I think. Notice how I can belittle your beliefs without calling you names. It's a useful skill to have particularly where you aren't allowed to call people names. It's a mistake to get too drawn in/worked up. I mean it's not life or death, it's just two guys posting their thoughts on a message board. If it were personal or face to face all the usual restraints would be in place, and we would never have reached this place in the first place. Try to remember that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoonDing Posted May 12, 2009 Share Posted May 12, 2009 That lack of reaction was also another reason why I HATED the ending I convince the Brotherhood of Steel Paladin to sacrafice herself and she shows less fear/apprehension than she would for a dentist appointment. They obviously must have expected the player to have some emotional attachment to this character but nothing interesting was done with her. I think they rather counted on Amata for this, considering the different ways how the Trouble at Homefront quest played out. How many times does one meet the Lyons woman, twice or thrice? Call me sentimental & gullible, but I actually felt bad when Jonas died, and when my character left Amata behind. Probably the first time in any Bethesda game where I felt some genuine attachment to any character. I hadn't expected anything like that from Bethesda before I started the game -- the opening scene of the game was typically brilliant though, right on par with Daggerfall's & Morrowind's. The ending of the words is ALMSIVI. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aram Posted May 12, 2009 Share Posted May 12, 2009 Speaking of guns... I'd love to see some WWII era weapons in the game. The Fallout universe splits from our own sometime after WWII (right?) so, while modern weapons like M4s and Berettas might be a bit out of place WWII era equipment like some seen in F2 might make sense. I've actually changed my stance on this and think that fictional or genericized quasi-futuristic weapons do make more sense for the setting, but I can think of a few real world, 1950s weapons that just belong in Fallout. The M3 Grease gun is one of them. It's junky enough that repairs and replacement parts could conceivably be assembled from wasteland scrap, and all of the cleaning gear is actually built into the gun--the stock becomes a cleaning rod and and oil reservoir is hidden in the grip. Plus it's in this picture: [hide][/hide] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slowtrain Posted May 12, 2009 Share Posted May 12, 2009 [The M3 Grease gun is one of them. FO2 had the M3. And it used the one handed sub-machine firing animation of the 10mm. WHich always bugged me a little. I've never fired an M3 myself, but I find it difficult to imagine it could be fired accurately with one hand. Notice how I can belittle your beliefs without calling you names. It's a useful skill to have particularly where you aren't allowed to call people names. It's a mistake to get too drawn in/worked up. I mean it's not life or death, it's just two guys posting their thoughts on a message board. If it were personal or face to face all the usual restraints would be in place, and we would never have reached this place in the first place. Try to remember that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreasyDogMeat Posted May 12, 2009 Share Posted May 12, 2009 That lack of reaction was also another reason why I HATED the ending I convince the Brotherhood of Steel Paladin to sacrafice herself and she shows less fear/apprehension than she would for a dentist appointment. They obviously must have expected the player to have some emotional attachment to this character but nothing interesting was done with her. I think they rather counted on Amata for this, considering the different ways how the Trouble at Homefront quest played out. How many times does one meet the Lyons woman, twice or thrice? Call me sentimental & gullible, but I actually felt bad when Jonas died, and when my character left Amata behind. Probably the first time in any Bethesda game where I felt some genuine attachment to any character. I hadn't expected anything like that from Bethesda before I started the game -- the opening scene of the game was typically brilliant though, right on par with Daggerfall's & Morrowind's. Agreed. I actually really liked Liam Neeson as the father. Its hard for me to be worried in the least about New Vegas. Even if the tweaks are minor, it will be a Obsidian story on top of something I already enjoyed. My ONLY worry is they might actually make it easier than Fallout 3 is already as Obsidian has been prone to rather easy CRPGs. Really though, could they possibly make it easier than Fallout 3? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.E. Sawyer Posted May 12, 2009 Share Posted May 12, 2009 FO2 had the M3. And it used the one handed sub-machine firing animation of the 10mm. WHich always bugged me a little. I've never fired an M3 myself, but I find it difficult to imagine it could be fired accurately with one hand. I think 10mm recoil is even worse than .45 ACP. Then again, you carry around miniguns in Fallout so... twitter tyme Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tigranes Posted May 12, 2009 Share Posted May 12, 2009 Note: the poster above says "Do not forget the wolfish Yanks' ('wolfish' being an adjective for cunning, immoral and such). I suppose it's North Korean. Anyway, what, guns? Woah, I got nothin'. Let's Play: Icewind Dale Ironman (Complete) Let's Play: Icewind Dale II Ironman (Complete) Let's Play: Divinity II (Complete) Let's Play: Baldur's Gate Trilogy Ironman - BG1 (Complete) Let's Play: Baldur's Gate Trilogy Ironman - BG2 (In Progress) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aram Posted May 12, 2009 Share Posted May 12, 2009 [The M3 Grease gun is one of them. FO2 had the M3. And it used the one handed sub-machine firing animation of the 10mm. WHich always bugged me a little. I've never fired an M3 myself, but I find it difficult to imagine it could be fired accurately with one hand. The 10mm submachine-gun in Fallout was described as a "Heckler and Koch MP9" which always seemed ill fitting to the setting to me. MP9 suggests it's an evolution of the MP5 which simply doesn't fit the quasi-50s setting. Hell, the company Heckler & Koch doesn't fit the setting very well if you ask me. I would have liked to see a submachine-gun clearly inspired by such trashy garbage SMGs of the 50s as the M3, maybe made a little esoteric and futuristic looking, with a generic military designation devoid of anachronistic company namedropping. I also disliked the looks of the 10mm pistol and .223 rifle. They were both pop culture references which we all know grew like a fungus for the sequel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreasyDogMeat Posted May 12, 2009 Share Posted May 12, 2009 Speaking of guns... I'd love to see some WWII era weapons in the game. The Fallout universe splits from our own sometime after WWII (right?) so, while modern weapons like M4s and Berettas might be a bit out of place WWII era equipment like some seen in F2 might make sense. I've actually changed my stance on this and think that fictional or genericized quasi-futuristic weapons do make more sense for the setting, but I can think of a few real world, 1950s weapons that just belong in Fallout. The M3 Grease gun is one of them. It's junky enough that repairs and replacement parts could conceivably be assembled from wasteland scrap, and all of the cleaning gear is actually built into the gun--the stock becomes a cleaning rod and and oil reservoir is hidden in the grip. Plus it's in this picture: [hide][/hide] My Grandfather fought in that war and used the M3 'Grease Gun'. Knew somebody who shot himself in the foot cleaning one. Never told me any stories about playing 'drop the Korean baby down the well' though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Syraxis Posted May 12, 2009 Share Posted May 12, 2009 (edited) I just hope for voice talent that Obsidian doesn't blow their entire allocated budget on a few high priced 'Hollywood' stars and leave us with the same four actors/actresses for all the other NPCs. Like Bethesda. Or they could do what is considered unthinkable these days, actually make us read text. Edited May 12, 2009 by Syraxis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pop Posted May 12, 2009 Share Posted May 12, 2009 (edited) I guess in the end, I would love to see Obsidian really concentrate on a single major story that has conseqneces and ramifications on the gameworld and not spend so much (or even any) time on these minor sidequests that don't really have any significance. Turning the sidequests into related sections of the main narrative would be OK. One major, well thought out, and complex narrative, combined with a decent amount of freeform exploration would be a good combination, I think. So make it nothing like Fallout then. Edited May 12, 2009 by Pop Join me, and we shall make Production Beards a reality! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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