We did WHAT!?

[Calax]

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.a...54-2703,00.html

 

it's norwegian but:

 

Appearently the US launched an offensive operation into Syria without consent and managed to kill people

 

those people being aged 18-50 and civvies according to reports from the syrian news agency...

 

 

eh read what little I've found here

 

http://forums.relicnews.com/showthread.php?t=206817

[taks]

my guess would be that it is a mix between what the syrian news agency is reporting and what US news is reporting, i.e., some al qaeda leader (with cohorts) was killed.

 

taks

[Gfted1]

Calax's first link is broken but I assume he meant to post one similar to this:

 

US official: Raid on Syria killed leader of cell

 

Oct 27, 3:39 PM (ET)

 

By ZEINA KARAM and HUSSEIN MALLA

 

SUKKARIYEH, Syria (AP) - Families in this Syrian village on Monday buried relatives they said died in a U.S. helicopter attack. A U.S. counterterrorism official said American forces killed the head of a Syrian network that funneled fighters, weapons and cash into Iraq.

 

The raid Sunday targeted the home of Abu Ghadiyah, the nickname for the leader of a key cell of foreign fighters in Iraq, according to the U.S. official, who spoke on condition of anonymity to discuss sensitive intelligence. The U.S. Treasury Department has identified him as one of four major figures in al-Qaida's Iraq wing who were living in Syria.

 

Also Monday, a villager said U.S. forces grabbed two men and took them away by helicopter during the cross-border raid.

 

During the funerals, residents shouted anti-American slogans and carried banners reading: "Down with Bush and the American enemy." Syria's foreign minister condemned the raid as "cowboy politics."

 

The Syrian government said four U.S. military helicopters attacked a civilian building under construction shortly before sundown, killing eight people in Sukkariyeh - a village about five miles inside the Syrian border.

 

A U.S. military official in Washington confirmed Sunday that special forces had conducted a raid in Syria that targeted the network of al-Qaida-linked foreign fighters moving through Syria into Iraq.

 

"We are taking matters into our own hands," the official told The Associated Press, speaking on condition of anonymity because of the political sensitivity of cross-border raids.

 

The attack is another sign that the United States is aggressively launching military raids across the borders of Afghanistan and Iraq to destroy insurgent sanctuaries. In Pakistan, U.S. missile strikes have killed at least two senior al-Qaida operatives this year and ramped up the threat to groups suspected of plotting attacks on Western troops in Afghanistan and terror strikes in the West.

 

A Sukkariyeh resident, who spoke on condition of anonymity because he feared for his life, said he saw at least two men taken into custody by American forces and whisked away by helicopter. Another villager displayed amateur video footage he took with his mobile phone that shows four helicopters flying toward them as villagers point to the skies in alarm.

 

An Associated Press journalist saw the grainy video Monday.

 

At the targeted building, about a five-minute drive off the main road, the floor was bloodstained and white tennis shoes were surrounded by blood and pieces of human flesh. A tent pitched near the site had bags of bread, pots and pans and wool blankets.

 

In Washington, White House spokeswoman Dana Perino refused to confirm, or even discuss, Sunday's attack.

 

Iran condemned the attack as did Russia, which has had close ties with Syria since Soviet times.

 

The raid also put the Baghdad government in an awkward position while negotiating a security pact with the United States. Iraqi officials said they hoped the raid would not harm their relations with Syria, but the government spokesman in Baghdad noted that it happened in an area known as a terrorist haven.

 

"We are trying to contain the fallout from the incident," Iraqi Foreign Ministry undersecretary Labid Abbawi said. "It is regrettable and we are sorry it happened."

 

Government spokesman Ali al-Dabbagh, however, said the area where the raid occurred "is a theater of military operations where anti-Iraq terrorist activity takes place."

 

Syria's foreign minister, Walid al-Moallem, described the raid as "cowboy politics." He spoke to reporters in London and warned that if there was a repeat attack on Syria, "we would defend our territories."

 

The Syrian government statement said eight people were killed, including a man and his four children and a woman. However, local officials said seven men were killed and two other people were wounded, including a woman among the injured.

 

An Associated Press journalist at the funerals in the village cemetery saw the bodies of seven men - none of them children. The discrepancy could not immediately be explained.

 

Sunday's attack came at a time when Syria appears to be making some amends with the United States. Though Syria has long been viewed by the U.S. as a destabilizing country in the Middle East, Damascus has been trying in recent months to change its image and end years of global seclusion.

 

The raid came just days after the commander of U.S. forces in western Iraq said American troops were redoubling efforts to secure the Syrian border, which he called an "uncontrolled" gateway for fighters entering Iraq.

 

In Sukkariyeh, villager Jumaa Ahmad al-Hamad told the AP he was walking Sunday when he saw four helicopters, two of which landed.

 

"Shooting then started ringing for more than 10 minutes," al-Hamad said Monday. After the helicopters stopped firing and left the area, he and other villagers went to the site and discovered the bodies of his uncle, Dawoud al-Hamad, and four of his uncle's sons, who he said were killed.

 

At the one-story family house of the deceased Dawoud al-Hamad and his sons, about 30 women dressed in black wept in a courtyard. They all dismissed allegations that the dead men had links to al-Qaida.

 

"They were innocent laborers who worked from dusk to dawn," said Abdullah's wife, Rima, while sitting on the floor. She said work at the construction site started last week.

 

Asked about U.S. reports that an al-Qaida-linked group used the site, Siham, the widow of one of Dawoud al-Hamad's sons, Ibrahim, said: "I don't know about any of that."

 

"All I know is that they went to work and never came back," said the mother of seven children, the youngest of whom is an 8-month-old girl.

 

Some Iraqi officials warned that the U.S. military raid into Syria could be used by opponents of the security pact under negotiation with the United States.

 

"Now neighboring countries have a good reason to be concerned about the continued U.S. presence in Iraq," Kurdish politician Mahmoud Othman told the AP.

 

Abbawi said he did not believe the Syrian raid would affect the security negotiations but acknowledged that "some will use the incident for the argument against the agreement."

 

Sunday's attack comes as the flow of foreign fighters into Iraq has been declining. A senior U.S. military intelligence official told the AP in July that it had been cut to an estimated 20 a month. That's a 50 percent decline from six months ago, and just a fifth of the estimated 100 foreign fighters who were infiltrating Iraq a year ago, according to the official.

 

The area targeted Sunday is near the Iraqi border city of Qaim, which had been a major crossing point for fighters, weapons and money coming into Iraq to fuel the Sunni insurgency.

 

Ninety percent of the foreign fighters enter through Syria, according to U.S. intelligence. Foreigners are some of the most deadly fighters in Iraq, trained in bomb-making and with small-arms expertise and more likely to be willing suicide bombers than Iraqis.

[Hildegard]

So? The US suspects there is a target in the village, bombs it, civilians die along the way, nothing new really, expect the event took place 10km inside Syrian territory.

Edited October 27, 2008 by Hildegard

[mkreku]

"Terrorism is the systematic use of terror especially as a means of coercion. There is no internationally agreed definition of terrorism. Most common definitions of terrorism include only those acts which are intended to create fear (terror), are perpetrated for an ideological goal (as opposed to a lone attack), and deliberately target or disregard the safety of non-combatants."

 

So who are the terrorists again?

 

Go USA.

[Gorgon]

The Syrian govt is a bit of a joke, considering the amount of leverage wielded by Hezbollah. However, going in and assassinating people on foreign soil, that's the kinda thing you would expect of Israel, not the US.

[taks]

that the US is doing it does not surprise me at all, at least, not on the very border that the US accuses of being the primary source of insurgency.

 

taks

[Gorgon]

Well there are obvious dangers to spreading the conflict further. Whats next, a raid into Iran, we all know they wholeheartedly support the insurgents.

[Theseus]

"Terrorism is the systematic use of terror especially as a means of coercion. There is no internationally agreed definition of terrorism. Most common definitions of terrorism include only those acts which are intended to create fear (terror), are perpetrated for an ideological goal (as opposed to a lone attack), and deliberately target or disregard the safety of non-combatants."

 

So who are the terrorists again?

 

Go USA.

Excuse me mr mkreku but Syria has no oil for us, and all the women are ugly so why would we terrorize them besides for their beef jerky?

 

Boo

[Gorgon]

I think he's mistaking terrorism with the usual eggs that get broken when governments make omelets. Human rights go out the window as soon as we are talking about the national interests of a major power. I'm sure the US would have preferred no 'collateral damage', but it's not like that was ever a deal breaker.

[Gorgon]

In any case

 

An Associated Press journalist at the funerals in the village cemetery saw the bodies of seven men - none of them children. The discrepancy could not immediately be explained.

 

The Syrian press is not exactly a beacon on neutrality.

[taks]

Well there are obvious dangers to spreading the conflict further. Whats next, a raid into Iran, we all know they wholeheartedly support the insurgents.

yeah, but they can fight back.

 

like i said earlier, the "truth" is probably a mixture of what syrian press and US press have to say on the matter. the attack was probably legitimately on some al qaeda operatives, and there may legitimately have been some civilians killed.

 

taks

[jaguars4ever]

An Associated Press journalist at the funerals in the village cemetery saw the bodies of seven men - none of them children. The discrepancy could not immediately be explained.

 

The Syrian press is not exactly a beacon on neutrality.

Oh n0es!1

 

Now they get to call in a helicopter! If CoD4 has taught us anything is that those things are vicious!

[Killian Kalthorne]

I am not surprised one bit. Bush won't be happy until we have all the world wanting to attack us. I am betting the day he leaves office he will order an attack on Iran, if not sooner.

[taks]

uh, syria has never really been on a list of countries that didn't want to attack us anyway. they're just too small to do anything about it.

 

taks

[Meshugger]

A part of me dreams about a division of soldiers made out of Colonel Kurtz' vision, then the war on 'terror' would've been won within a month. There wouldn't been a 'need' to go to Iraq, no need to harass the Iranian or the Syrians. Just a minor tour to Afghanistan, and then out. Done.

 

No judgement and no moral restraint, just acting according to what needs to be done.

 

Then i wake up and realize that i am a human being after all.

Edited October 27, 2008 by Meshugger

[Hildegard]

uh, syria has never really been on a list of countries that didn't want to attack us anyway. they're just too small to do anything about it.

 

taks

 

Countries didn't need to attack the US to be bombed and invaded by USAF and the US Army.

[Calax]

An Associated Press journalist at the funerals in the village cemetery saw the bodies of seven men - none of them children. The discrepancy could not immediately be explained.

 

The Syrian press is not exactly a beacon on neutrality.

Oh n0es!1

 

Now they get to call in a helicopter! If CoD4 has taught us anything is that those things are vicious!

....

 

Five must have been gunned down for the airstrike... and that only got two guys? bad airstrike :D

[taks]

quite honestly, i have no idea what your point is, hildegard, nor how it would even apply to what i said.

 

you're even incapable of understanding when someone half-way agrees with you. that must suck given that i'm such an ignorant redneck educated in the US.

 

taks

[Killian Kalthorne]

In any case we shouldn't just go into another country and start bombing them. Yes, we should go after terrorists as much as possible but we should work with foreign governments to root out these people, not totally disregard the sovereignty of a nation. This sort of "cowboy" tactics is why the majority of the world is downright, and justly, pissed off at us.

[Leferd]

You realize you're talking abut Syria here, right? Granted, their government isn't exactly Hezbollah, but still...

[Killian Kalthorne]

They are still a sovereign nation and must be treated and respected as such. You get more flies with honey than vinegar, dear Leferd.

[Aram]

I thought the point was to keep the flies out.

[Leferd]

They are still a sovereign nation and must be treated and respected as such. You get more flies with honey than vinegar, dear Leferd.

 

Yeah, it'd be nice if all sovereign nations behaved and treated each other with respect and follow the teachings of Bill and Ted. That's not how the world works, and the Syrian government certainly does not respect the sovereignty of other states.

 

I don't have all the facts or intelligence of what exactly happened, and I'm certainly no fan of Dubya Bush, and though as unfortunate it is to have the deaths of non-combatants and civilians, as well as other collateral damage, it is the prerogative of the US government to go after a legitimate terrorist target when the intelligence is accurate, and steps are taken that will reduce the amount of unnecessary deaths.

[Calax]

They are still a sovereign nation and must be treated and respected as such. You get more flies with honey than vinegar, dear Leferd.

 

Yeah, it'd be nice if all sovereign nations behaved and treated each other with respect and follow the teachings of Bill and Ted. That's not how the world works, and the Syrian government certainly does not respect the sovereignty of other states.

 

I don't have all the facts or intelligence of what exactly happened, and I'm certainly no fan of Dubya Bush, and though as unfortunate it is to have the deaths of non-combatants and civilians, as well as other collateral damage, it is the prerogative of the US government to go after a legitimate terrorist target when the intelligence is accurate, and steps are taken that will reduce the amount of unnecessary deaths.

and if this were in say..... Germany or Russia we'd still throw them the finger about asking permission? I thought america was supposed to be "enlightened" about international politics.