Romantic drivel

[Walsingham]

I don't quite follow.

 

I mean you talk about this from an operational - as in 'what I might do' - perspective very differently to your 'how do I feel' perspective.

[alanschu]

The more recent one being more operational?

 

I notice that the "how do I feel" posts I tend to swear more haha.

[Walsingham]

Well, large parst of it are more operational.

 

It's a little unfair to blame you for this. I know I am in some ways very similar. There's a big difference in romance between what you should do and what you will do. I liken it to skiing. It's patently insane to slide down a snowy hillside on sticks, but we do it anyway. We'll even keep doing it if we break limbs.

[SirPetrakus]

Trust me, all you needed to hear was a phone conversation to understand what I had to put up with. The woman lacked any hint of common sense. I almost regret meeting her in the first place.

 

I guess she wasn't the only one, since you went out with her in the first place.

 

Rub some more salt on THAT wound, why dontcha? Ouch! I was introduced to her and all I could think of was "You're perdy! Durrr!" when I met her.

 

Staying in the barracks for 6 months and sharing a room with 40 other guys helps you overlook small shortcomings like personality or lack of thereof. Excuse me for being sexually starved after 6 months of inactivity.

[alanschu]

Well, large parst of it are more operational.

 

It's a little unfair to blame you for this. I know I am in some ways very similar. There's a big difference in romance between what you should do and what you will do. I liken it to skiing. It's patently insane to slide down a snowy hillside on sticks, but we do it anyway. We'll even keep doing it if we break limbs.

 

To be fair, I use the board as a sounding board for the most part. A place for me to put my own thoughts out there to make a bit of sense out of them myself.

 

Sounds like you are calling me crazy! Haha :D

[Walsingham]

Trust me, all you needed to hear was a phone conversation to understand what I had to put up with. The woman lacked any hint of common sense. I almost regret meeting her in the first place.

 

I guess she wasn't the only one, since you went out with her in the first place.

 

Rub some more salt on THAT wound, why dontcha? Ouch! I was introduced to her and all I could think of was "You're perdy! Durrr!" when I met her.

 

Staying in the barracks for 6 months and sharing a room with 40 other guys helps you overlook small shortcomings like personality or lack of thereof. Excuse me for being sexually starved after 6 months of inactivity.

 

Hah! I remember being in barracks, and we'd been drinking in the junior ranks mess (privilege of having an awesome training cadre). Anyway, this one young fellah is daft enough to call this girl he's been waffling on about, in the middle of us doing our Waltons impressions ("Goodnight Billy-Joe-Jim-Bob" "Goodnight , you flatulent bastard"). Anyway, we hear him say in a surprised voice "What am I _wearing_?"

 

I told him straight: "Mate, I'm the one who doesn't break any rules and I'm telling you right now to get dressed, climb the wall and go to her. We'll cover for you." But naturally enough when you're young you think young girls will always be making lewd advances on you.

[Guest The Architect]

Trust me, all you needed to hear was a phone conversation to understand what I had to put up with. The woman lacked any hint of common sense. I almost regret meeting her in the first place.

 

I guess she wasn't the only one, since you went out with her in the first place.

 

Rub some more salt on THAT wound, why dontcha? Ouch! I was introduced to her and all I could think of was "You're perdy! Durrr!" when I met her.

 

Staying in the barracks for 6 months and sharing a room with 40 other guys helps you overlook small shortcomings like personality or lack of thereof. Excuse me for being sexually starved after 6 months of inactivity.

 

Sure, if you want me to I'll be more than glad to, it's what I do best. Can't say I blame you, but that doesn't negate the Pot. Kettle. Black point. It is said that really attractive women can alter men's ability to think rationally. That would be an understatement. They do have a somewhat intoxicating effect on heterosexual/bi men, whether you attempt to hide that fact from them is another thing all together.

[Walsingham]

I have to agree. Put me in a room with a beautiful woman - I mean really properly beautiful, not some model - and you might just as well give me a swift kick to the head. I was so startled once by two gorgeous twins in Thailand that I actually forgot to breath and nearly passed out!

[Checkpoint]

You know, the more I think about this I suspect that she has feelings for you that she doesn't want to or doesn't know how to act out. On the one hand she feels it could never work out and she doesn't want to complicate things (i.e. leave her husband etc), but on the other hand she has a need to do things for you to impress you or keep you interested. Although that sounds incredibly selfish on her part, I believe she's not entirely aware of what she's doing. I don't know whether you should confront her about it - I think you know that better yourself - but I think you need to make some sort of active decision about her.

 

It's hard and it sucks, but I firmly believe that the brain needs to decide on something and let the heart adapt to that, because I think you can only find peace once you figure stuff out and decide on something, and then let brain and heart synchronize. That takes time, but I think it's worth it once the heart has caught up with the brain, because then you "know" that your feelings are "true."

 

After the funeral I was in already in a crap mood, and because she is trying to be safe and not get too emotionally involved with me, and the fact that two of our other friends were with us on the walk back to my car (she needed to pickup her backpack, since I drove her to the funeral given that we're both on University campus), she was emotionally distant. So rather than any of them asking me if I was doing alright, they got the backpack and walked away. It only served to reinforce that I had lost my confidant, which pissed me off. So I sent an angryish text to her saying "Thanks for leaving me alone..." which she got several hours later, and responded "Ok be like that. I hope making me feel bad helps."

 

Of course it didn't, and it wasn't really her fault anyways. I ended up chatting with her afterwards online. She said she was worried about me because she knew this past week (and the week before) has been really rough for me. I told her the text was just me thinking it'd be easier to get angry than sad at the fact that all the stuff that's happened this past while has made it that much more obvious that I lost the person I felt the most comfortable confiding in. She apologized for being off and on distant the past bit, but hoped I understood why. She said it's hard to see me suffering, and said it's really hard on her side as well. She admitted to me that leaving me alone at the car was awkward. Doubly so when I mentioned that I had made some assumptions that it was clear I wanted her to come to the funeral for my sake. She wanted to hug me, but felt she couldn't, and in the end it just led to a crappy evening where I was feeling angry and bitter.

 

It's kind of a vicious circle, because I am reminded of the times when she was good for picking me up, so when I go through a lot and get kicked down like I have recently, recognizing that I can't talk with her (though ironically we did talk last night, but whatever) just makes me angrier, because in my mind so much of it is the husband's fault. The girl and I were good friends long before things got too close, and it's a pissoff to know that both she and I are suffering through adjustments while he goes along willy nilly without having to really be held accountable.

 

She says it's hard because for her sake, she can't get emotionally involved with me, and that she doesn't know what is appropriate and what is not. I spoke with her about the CD. She says she feels foolish because she didn't think about the song contents. She knew I was feeling bad, and told me that that is the CD that she listens to when in the bath or isolated, and she sings loudly to it to make her feel better. It's one of the ways she deals with mounting stress I guess, and that's what she had hoped it do for me. She apologized several times that she didn't mean to mislead me and wishes she could have taken back the gesture.

 

We both agreed that our snapping at each other was just a culmination of suck that was the day/week. At one point we were discussing my roommate (it was his Dad that died) and she mentioned she had been dreading the day, and she was just some friend (and not his roommate I imagine she was getting at). She's more than just some friend to him I told her though, and she agreed. She said he's a special person. She then said she thinks I'm a special person too, but don't get the same hugs because it's weird. Or rather, it's NOT weird, which is even worse and confuses her. I joked with her that it is so not weird that it wraps around to super weird, and she agreed. I told her I figured if she was alone at my car, she would have hugged me, but the publicness of it made her self conscious, and she agreed.

 

We then spoke a little bit about the previous deaths we had to deal with in our lives. I lost my brother 14 years ago (almost to the day...September 11, 1994), and she had lost some friends and her grandmother. I ended up opening up with some stuff that I never really have shared with anybody (though in hindsight I probably shouldn't do that with her, but alas), the details of the day I found out my brother was killed (I was discussing how sometimes I hate my memory). Though to reassure her that I don't think it's a curse, and it balances out, I did share some good ones, including some good ones I had with her, and she laughed. At this point I started to wrap things up, since I knew she was tired and I was starting to get tired myself. I thanked her for her time, and that I hoped it didn't make her uncomfortable. She said it's never uncomfortable. Commented that it's a bit strange and weird, because she figures it should be more uncomfortable, but it's not. At the end she said that she couldn't spend the evening with me, but said that the chat was nice. Looking back we had chatted for 2.5 hours, and it was nice. I told her I understood she wouldn't be able to go out and spend an evening with me, and I don't expect that from her. She said it's hard because with me, she has no idea where the friend line is or should be. With me, she's just guessing.

 

 

 

To address your comments Schmarth, there are times I agree with you that she is a bit uncertain. She said a short while ago that it's been three months, and it's taking a long time for her to feel better. I can tell...she's a lot more sombre lately than I have seen her in the past. I don't know what things are like between just her and her husband in terms of fun and enjoyment (outside of an assumption that things are still shaky because I heard that she was recently suggested to go to marriage counseling from a friend), but I know that the times she and I hang out (typically in a group...we've only just hung out together once, and it was to watch Attack of the Clones before seeing Clone Wars) I see glimpses of the unrestricted smile on her face where it gets wide and her eyes brighten. I know she and I still exchange glances quite a bit, often in response to something to see how the other reacted I think.

 

A looooong time ago, she said she could never imagine herself divorced, as it'd be impossible to think she could love someone so much, only to not have it work out. She figured she'd never be able to love again if that were to happen. It'd hurt too much. Knowing this, I think that there's still some of that mentality. She blamed herself, and us, for why things weren't better between her and her husband, and on some level I can agree. She said that it was easier to spend time with me, since things were so hard with him. I think part of why she made the choice she did is because it was the choice she is supposed to make.

 

I don't think she has a need to impress me or keep me interested perse. I don't really know what she wants from me, and I don't think she does either. It's hard to erase history, and the times we shared together, and I think she's conflicted about what she really wants. I think she hates to see me suffering and wants to be there for me, but isn't sure what that means for her.

I don't know, it's really hard to analyse her without knowing her personally. These things also tend to come with having a very close relationship because even if you know someone on a slightly more shallow level you won't pick up these deeper personality traits.

 

But it feels a bit as though she has some of the issues I feel that I have experienced with my ex. My ex, however, as I have already said, very much appears to suffer from Borderline Personality Disorder, and I'm not saying that this is your friend's problem. Nevertheless, my ex has this tendency to want to retain control and keep you close, but never too close. Once you get too close she becomes afraid of losing you and, ironically, starts pushing you away and subconsciously damages the relationship.

 

Now, as I said, I'm not suggesting your friend suffers from this disorder by any stretch, but I do recognise some of that fear both of getting too close and of letting go. Mostly, I recognise a fear of being abandonded and gaining control of that situation by being the abandoner rather than the abandonee. She might be displaying some of these issues, but I could never tell from a few online posts by someone I've never even met personally myself.

 

You know, I think you should google around the net a bit and see what you find. Not necessarily about BPD, but about this stuff in general and I think you'll find people who have been pretty much exactly in your situation. Although you shouldn't take everything as gospel because you recognise your own case, it can help you move forward in realising that these things happen to other people as well and usually there is some sort of explanation. Don't use it too much as comfort or universal truth, but do take it with you because it'll help you get over things.

[Checkpoint]

I have to agree. Put me in a room with a beautiful woman - I mean really properly beautiful, not some model - and you might just as well give me a swift kick to the head. I was so startled once by two gorgeous twins in Thailand that I actually forgot to breath and nearly passed out!

Imagine having a bright, beautiful and attractive woman thinking the world of you and dreaming of marrying you and having your children. You feel like the centre of her universe. And then within one year she has someone new, has zero romantic feelings for you whatsoever and also a complete lack of emotional understanding for why you are so hurt.

 

Now, welcome to my world.

[Guest The Architect]

THAT'S A ****ING NIGHTMARE!

 

Doesn't understand why that'd be emotionally painful for you doesn't do well to convince me that she was bright, at least not in an emotional sense.

 

Then again what woman isn't emotionally retarded?

 

In fact, what woman isn't retarded?

Edited September 16, 2008 by The Architect

[Checkpoint]

THAT'S A ****ING NIGHTMARE!

 

Doesn't understand why that'd be emotionally painful for you doesn't do well to convince me that she was bright, at least not in an emotional sense.

 

Then again what woman isn't emotionally retarded?

 

In fact, what woman isn't retarded?

This is why BPD makes too much sense. Every description I've read about being in a relationship with a borderline fits all too well minus the suicide threats and self-harm. But God only knows what she might have resorted to if I'd have dumped her somewhere along the way.

 

But the point is that borderlines are mostly very bright and very charismatic. Only emotionally they are on the same level as a three-yearold who sees the world in black and white. They can't really see you as a whole person with good and bad traits, but who is generally a good and loving person whose good sides outweigh the bad. Rationally they obviously know that you have good and bad traits, but emotionally they can only judge you by your most recent action, and with their moodswings that action might seem bad to them no matter what you just did.

 

And in that moment they loathe and devalue you; no wonder I kept being attacked without understanding what I'd just done. No wonder I was constantly on edge wondering what mood she might be in. And with her excellent manipulative skills, no wonder I kept apologising and allowing myself to be controlled.

 

At the same time, I remember for example this time back when we lived in Spain together and she was very much in love with me (or, rather, absolutely frightened of losing me because I loved her). After a night out she suddenly freaked out and started crying because she felt as though I didn't love her back. I was constantly torn inside because I didn't know whether I could live up to her expectations (and you can basically never live up to a borderline's expectations in the long run, because they aren't based in reality), but in that moment I had to tell her I loved her madly. Had I hestitated and said "I'm not sure" she might seriously have jumped in front of the subway. This is fear of abandonment.

 

I don't think she's an extreme case who has been sexually abused by her father or that kind of thing. But I know for a fact that she often felt neglected as a child, because she has told me that much. Reading about this stuff I recognise the stages, her actions and my reactions. I'm no psychologist and have only read about this on the internet (but the internet is full of stories and examples), so I can't really diagnose her with any certainty. But I'll be moving on with the perception that she was borderline. And in that case I'd better stay the hell away because she might come back to haunt me in the future when she starts feeling "lonely". If she does that I'll need to be very strong and not be tempted back. And tell her about my suspicions so she might receive help.

Edited September 16, 2008 by Checkpoint

[Walsingham]

I randomly came across this article in the Telegraph, dealing with a similar situation.

 

Anyway, I was about toe berate Archie for being bitter, until I remembered that I've been off relationships for nearly a year because I essentially got sick of having to spend so much energy just understanding women. I literally got tired of it. I don't know if it's women naturally, but I do think a lot of it is down to how many competing demands society makes of them.

 

Having said that I've been taking delivery all day of new nest-building materiel, like tumble-dryers, mirrors, and fridges. I have my new cooker coming soon, and I'm getting quotes to revamp the rear of the house. So something must be up.

[Checkpoint]

I randomly came across this article in the Telegraph, dealing with a similar situation.

The article kind of fits her description. Perhaps it isn't so surprising that she's into yoga.

[Walsingham]

I randomly came across this article in the Telegraph, dealing with a similar situation.

The article kind of fits her description. Perhaps it isn't so surprising that she's into yoga.

 

Yeah, it's not hard to get Freudian about her preferring self-actualisation.

[alanschu]

I don't know, it's really hard to analyse her without knowing her personally. These things also tend to come with having a very close relationship because even if you know someone on a slightly more shallow level you won't pick up these deeper personality traits.

 

But it feels a bit as though she has some of the issues I feel that I have experienced with my ex. My ex, however, as I have already said, very much appears to suffer from Borderline Personality Disorder, and I'm not saying that this is your friend's problem. Nevertheless, my ex has this tendency to want to retain control and keep you close, but never too close. Once you get too close she becomes afraid of losing you and, ironically, starts pushing you away and subconsciously damages the relationship.

 

Now, as I said, I'm not suggesting your friend suffers from this disorder by any stretch, but I do recognise some of that fear both of getting too close and of letting go. Mostly, I recognise a fear of being abandonded and gaining control of that situation by being the abandoner rather than the abandonee. She might be displaying some of these issues, but I could never tell from a few online posts by someone I've never even met personally myself.

 

You know, I think you should google around the net a bit and see what you find. Not necessarily about BPD, but about this stuff in general and I think you'll find people who have been pretty much exactly in your situation. Although you shouldn't take everything as gospel because you recognise your own case, it can help you move forward in realising that these things happen to other people as well and usually there is some sort of explanation. Don't use it too much as comfort or universal truth, but do take it with you because it'll help you get over things.

 

Well, fear of getting too close is understandable. She is married!

 

I am skeptical that she has a personality disorder. I think she's confused by the whole situation because she wants things with her husband to be awesome, but they aren't really all she had hoped for, and she never anticipated falling in love with someone else, so it's a mind**** on her.

[Checkpoint]

I don't know, it's really hard to analyse her without knowing her personally. These things also tend to come with having a very close relationship because even if you know someone on a slightly more shallow level you won't pick up these deeper personality traits.

 

But it feels a bit as though she has some of the issues I feel that I have experienced with my ex. My ex, however, as I have already said, very much appears to suffer from Borderline Personality Disorder, and I'm not saying that this is your friend's problem. Nevertheless, my ex has this tendency to want to retain control and keep you close, but never too close. Once you get too close she becomes afraid of losing you and, ironically, starts pushing you away and subconsciously damages the relationship.

 

Now, as I said, I'm not suggesting your friend suffers from this disorder by any stretch, but I do recognise some of that fear both of getting too close and of letting go. Mostly, I recognise a fear of being abandonded and gaining control of that situation by being the abandoner rather than the abandonee. She might be displaying some of these issues, but I could never tell from a few online posts by someone I've never even met personally myself.

 

You know, I think you should google around the net a bit and see what you find. Not necessarily about BPD, but about this stuff in general and I think you'll find people who have been pretty much exactly in your situation. Although you shouldn't take everything as gospel because you recognise your own case, it can help you move forward in realising that these things happen to other people as well and usually there is some sort of explanation. Don't use it too much as comfort or universal truth, but do take it with you because it'll help you get over things.

 

Well, fear of getting too close is understandable. She is married!

 

I am skeptical that she has a personality disorder. I think she's confused by the whole situation because she wants things with her husband to be awesome, but they aren't really all she had hoped for, and she never anticipated falling in love with someone else, so it's a mind**** on her.

No, I didn't mean to insinuate that she had a personality disorder, it was more a case of seeing parallels. My ex being borderline is no sure thing either, after all. I only meant that my experience with finding out about BPD and the kind of "hallelujah moment" that gave me was very fruitful for my ability to move on with my situation. You know, you get other people's stories and find a way of explaining all the crap you have gone through and are going through right now. It soothes a damaged ego if anything.

 

Edit: Just to say that whatever information you find or whatever conclusion you arrive at, do not ever forget about your own responsibility or what you yourself did wrong! That's the single most important thing to carry with you, after all.

Edited September 16, 2008 by Checkpoint

[mkreku]

I was so startled once by two gorgeous twins in Thailand that I actually forgot to breath and nearly passed out!

I'm beginning to understand some of your moderating behaviours now.

[Walsingham]

I was so startled once by two gorgeous twins in Thailand that I actually forgot to breath and nearly passed out!

I'm beginning to understand some of your moderating behaviours now.

 

I'm glad someone does.

[Shryke]

so the girl i met at a party and had some... fun... with in the weekend txted me last night and wanted to meet up

 

so we met up and went and had a few drinks and games of pool, then all of a sudden we were back at her place and things started to happen

 

now this seems all well and good, but then she said something that kinda killed the mood

 

apparently i look like her ex that she's still in love with and blah blah blah

 

dammit

[thepixiesrock]

You didn't let that stop you did you?

 

Sex ahoy!

[Deadly_Nightshade]

Evidently a copy of Portal is a good gift to give a potential date, or at least that worked for me tonight - I'll have to get her some mods though.

Edited September 18, 2008 by Deadly_Nightshade

[Shryke]

You didn't let that stop you did you?

 

Sex ahoy!

 

nope

[Deadly_Nightshade]

You didn't let that stop you did you?

 

Sex ahoy!

 

nope

 

Why am I not surprised?

 

EDIT: Wait, you didn't get sex?!

Edited September 18, 2008 by Deadly_Nightshade

[Guest The Architect]

This must be the first time you've failed to bed a woman, Shryke, which only goes to prove you are human after all!