Martial Arts Skill

[Jason Bourne]

Since there are some new shots out of MT engaged in hand-to-hand, I asked if I could REVEAL the mysteries of our primary CQC art. It's American Kenpo, which was selected for a few reasons. Its strikes read very well, are quite varied, and lend themselves well to performing chains. We also do have grappling moves for MT, but they are quickly resolved and there is no actual ground fighting involved.

 

Preemptively, I would like to state that I know a lot of people would like to see Krav Maga/BJJ/Muay Thai/Savate/Hapkido/Wing Chun/Gunsen fighting, but this was the way we chose to go. Arts like Krav Maga work very well for Jason Bourne, but that's his thing, and specific to the tone of "his kind" of action. The action in Alpha Protocol is a little flashier/stylish, and American Kenpo works well for how we want CQC to fit into our combat (more seamless and less set-piecey, like Bourne Conspiracy).

 

*barricades dojo against hordes of martial arts "enthusiasts"*

 

Bourne doesn't use Krav Maga. He uses the empty handed version of Filipino MA, Kali. There's no way I see Kali transitioning smoothly from movie to game. It's just too fast.

 

You're right about Kali being Bourne's style. That's what Damon and Liman were looking for in the first movie. A fighting style that suited Bourne even when not fighting.

 

Can't wait to see videos of the CQC.

Edited August 20, 2008 by Jason Bourne

[Pop]

Can you tell us anything about how the CQC works? By which I mean, do you have a lock-on mechanism or is it free-form? The shots are even more impressive if it's the latter.

[J.E. Sawyer]

Much like many melee games with action elements, there is a soft-targeting cone (no hard lock) in front of Mike. When you perform your attacks, there is a slight amount of distance and heading adjustment done by Mike and the target to make sure the attacks and hit reactions line up properly. The soft-targeting is pretty generous, but you do have to be close to the target to pull off the attack.

[Pop]

Interesting. Thanks!

[Musopticon?]

That does sound really good. Hopefully the enemies can gang you, so the Assassin's Creed-like dozen enemies circling you, waiting for the player to dispatch one at a time, set doesn't come into play. Consequently, there'd have to be moves that push enemies back in a circle, or other vector. But we'll see.

[Jason Bourne]

Does the game pauses, and you input what kind of moves you want and watch the two fight each other?

[Xard]

I'd guess it's more in style of your typical fighting game than some weird RPG RTwP hybrid thingie

[J.E. Sawyer]

Does the game pauses, and you input what kind of moves you want and watch the two fight each other?

No, it's all in real-time. You can go straight from shooting to striking/grappling and back again. The camera adapts to you striking if you continue a chain, so you gradually gain a more "sideline" view of what's going on.

[Xard]

Sounds similar to Enter the Matrix

[Jason Bourne]

Interesting. Hopefully the animations look fantastic.

[samm]

Patrick Mills: ... You're a game designer, you should know what art is. And Krav Maga is about as much art as using a sniper rifle. It's a combat system and nothing else.

 

Jason Bourne: Yay, thanks for the info. I should have a look at the making-of, and the books too probably...

 

Sawyer: Sounds good Looking forward to trying it out.

Edited August 21, 2008 by samm

[Patrick K Mills]

Patrick Mills: ... You're a game designer, you should know what art is. And Krav Maga is about as much art as using a sniper rifle. It's a combat system and nothing else.

 

Sooo... it's a space station?

[Joseph Bulock]

You're a game designer, you should know what art is. And Krav Maga is about as much art as using a sniper rifle. It's a combat system and nothing else.

 

All martial arts are combat systems. Some just have a bunch of flowery stuff in there to bring in the little kids, while some were actually used to kill people in actual martial situations. Krav Maga is just more of the latter.

[samm]

If you say so...

 

Mr. Mills: Indeed it is, or rather will be, when it's finished. Sometime in 2009, and it will be awesome, with all nukes and laserbeams

[Dark_Raven]

No Shaolin Kung Fu?

[Snakecharmer]

I think Obsidian should hire the best of the best for their CQC advice:

 

http://www.fedordvd.com/?gclid=CODA0Y6cm5UCFQuJ1Qode0LkgQ

 

I'm not even kidding. This guy dispatched the former UFC heavyweight champion Tim Sylvia in 36 seconds, despite being 7 inches shorter and 40 pounds lighter. Check out the four minute teaser under the link above.

 

 

Good stuff. MMA is the best martial arts to use if you're ever in a real fight. I know this guy who's on the SWAT team that practices BJJ. I'm hoping to go to the police academy in January, and maybe later on I'll practice soem MMA. There's no way I'd want to use Kali in a real fight. I'd get my ass kicked, lol.

 

Actually, MMA style fighting is really only good in a one of one fight, or when you have someone to watch your back. Fighting multiple people, ground fighting is very dangerous, and likely to get you stomped on by your opponents friends when the jump in.

 

Enjoy the police academy.

 

Dude you must have never seen Roadhouse.

 

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6...vt=lf&hl=en

 

I heard Patrick Swayze actually trained with MMA fighters for this scene, My cousin told me and he knows everything about kicking ass. You guys should hire him to help with designing your combat systems.

 

"Be nice

Edited August 30, 2008 by Snakecharmer

[Cl_Flushentityhero]

I don't recall any ground fighting in Roadhouse . . . also, I'm pretty sure Swayze uses Kung Fu even if he did train with MMA fighters.

 

The basic tools of punches/kicks/throws/knees/elbows can be put to use in all kinds of situations. The reason MMA gets a bad rap is because they are usually trained to go to the ground with somebody as a normal strategy rather than last resort. This is often dangerous if there is either:

 

1) a non-friendly surface, eg pavement littered with glass (I've had youtube warriors tell me that they'd never touch the ground when they do groundfighting . . . right)

2) other people present who may or may not intervene against you if they think you're winning.

3) a weapon the guy plans to use if he gets in trouble.

 

You could probably come up with more, but those are some of the big ones. They don't teach any weapons stuff, but they don't claim to either. The skills of MMA can be used elsewhere, it's just the strategy has to be altered. Very often it's the MMA mentality of "winning" and habits from sports competiion that are more the problem than the actual techniques (granted it's just a collection of techniques from other arts).

 

And no, I'm actually not a huge fan of MMA, but I wouldn't say MMA is bad for self defense so much as many MMA fighters are bad at self-defense. I will grant that there *are* many people trained in MMA who freely acknowledge the limitations of the sport and either cross-train or say "I'm screwed if that happens," (the best of whom probably do both).

 

No, MMA will not teach you how to control somebody's weapon arm while disarming/throwing them away, but it does teach basic striking mechanics, takedown concepts, and useful skills for escaping the ground if you do end up there.

Edited August 30, 2008 by Cl_Flushentityhero

[mkreku]

I can't stop myself from posting these

 

[Jaesun]

I can't stop myself from posting these

 

 

Thank gawd for AdBlock <3.

[skyeraven]

I've seen the doc. on the History Channel years ago, but if you look up Barry Eisler, he'll tell you about the training he received, and as funny as this may sound, during the uncut version of Bourne Identity shown on TV (channel USA), a former clandestine officer mentioned the use of picking up any object you see around you and using it as a weapon.

 

I'll look into these more, but my first response is beware of people who can brag up on some sort of secret training they received that just happens to make their book or movie (or maybe even video game) that much more interesting or purchasable.

 

That's so true i seriously doubt that actual agents who were in the field and very successful would tell anyone that they were agents. Isn't that like committing suicide in the spy world? Also i believe that the spy world isn't as glamorous as the movies and video game makes them out to be, because in the real spy world behaving like James bond can get u killed easily. Real spies would most likely recruit from their enemies and have them do all the leg work and try fade out in the crowd. But i guess real spy work doesn't translate well into exciting movies and games. I also think the reason the for the stereotyping of spies being like james, or jason is because of all the secrecy its more fun to imagine spy work being exciting like in the movies.

 

With all that in mind i can see from a developers or movie maker's prospective why actual CQC would not translate to well to seem exciting in a game they dont have the impact. So picking an art appears a little flashier would be a good thing but dont make it too over the top

[Cl_Flushentityhero]

Well, even CIA people retire/get exposed on national news. That somebody worked for an intelligence agency at one point isn't really a death sentence by itself; what's done is done, and how likely is it that a widely-known former agent will go back into the field? Now, if they claimed responsibility for the JFK assassination while living in the U.S., that might cause them trouble, but it isn't that uncommon for retired CIA people to come clean with the truth to a certain extent. And no, I don't think that the CIA killed JFK.

 

From what I've heard (from various MAists and security professionals), Barry Eisler is supposedly legit, but I haven't actually seen the documentary yet.

[Cl_Flushentityhero]

As additional perspective on Eisler, we frequent the same MA e-mail list. When writing his books (or discussing matters of MA) he regularly consults with a group of fiftyish people bearing credentials including 30+ years in the martial arts, degrees in psychology and law, ex-special forces, law enforcement, self-defense instructors, competition fighters, bouncers, mercenaries, etc.

 

He doesn't strike me as the sort to make a claim unless he's done his homework, for what it's worth.

[mkreku]

Just.. one.. more..

 

 

[mkreku]

Oh, and all action game developers should read this:

 

http://www.amazon.com/Fedor-Fighting-Syste...d/dp/0977731545

 

Not that I've read it myself yet.. seeing as it's being released on September 20

[Xard]

btw, is Thorton NSA or CIA agent or what?

 

I hope it's not CIA... I don't want to play member of Most Dumb****ed Intelligence Agency of History