BREAKING NEWS: CRYSIS DEVS BAIL OUT! CONSOLES ARE THE FUTURE!

[random n00b]

Yes. As I said, I'm very proud of myself.

 

 

Also, I was lying when I said I'll withdraw. You'll have to tear the keyboard from my cold, dead fingers.

 

[kirottu]

If you had left then you wouldn

[skuld1]

No.

 

Smart devs win.

 

Whiners (and you) lose.

 

Game over man, game over!

 

I must have missed the part in that article where Brad Wardell explicitly states that only a statistically insignificant amount of pirates would pay for games.

 

I have a hard time believing that >95% of pirates have a software collection fetish and download games just to expand their hoard. Why would anyone pirate a game that they have absolutely no interest in?

[kirottu]

No.

 

Smart devs win.

 

Whiners (and you) lose.

 

Game over man, game over!

 

I must have missed the part in that article where Brad Wardell explicitly states that only a statistically insignificant amount of pirates would pay for games.

 

I have a hard time believing that >95% of pirates have a software collection fetish and download games just to expand their hoard. Why would anyone pirate a game that they have absolutely no interest in?

 

Because they can.

 

Just think about pr0n before the internets.

[Kelverin]

Why would anyone pirate a game that they have absolutely no interest in?

Boredom, because they can, sell it for $$$$$$$$$$, expand their horizons, stick it to the man, give to their friends, for ****'s and giggles????? Edited May 6, 2008 by Kelverin

[random n00b]

All right, cut it out. I'm the devil's advocate around these parts, mkay?

[Hurlshort]

Because they can.

 

Just think about pr0n before the internets.

 

Thats different. I feel more dirty paying for it than I do getting it for free off the internet.

[kirottu]

Because they can.

 

Just think about pr0n before the internets.

 

Thats different. I feel more dirty paying for it than I do getting it for free off the internet.

 

Hmm, a valid point. Not that I have ever bought anything pr0n related... Or pirated pr0n since that would illegal.

[Nick_i_am]

Walkerguy feels the same way about Hentai. wink wink.

[random n00b]

I think it's time the focus of the discussion shifted back to piracy.

 

And by piracy, I mean me.

[alanschu]

Obviously it is preferable to release a game over several platforms, because while you need to program the game for each, you only need to design characters and backgrounds, write music, record voiceacting and develop the plot once.

 

This comment doesn't really address anything. I understand the advantages of a multiplatform release (and the disadvantages). My comment was talking about why titles have gone from PC Exclusive to non-PC Exclusive, and why some companies have ceased developing for the PC platform in general.

 

I never said pc gaming specifically, so kindly do not try to infer that I did.

 

I'm never saying you did. However, the discussion (and very reason this thread exists) is about how Crysis made a comment about how piracy of their PC exclusive title has caused them to shift their development to include consoles.

 

I consistently spoke of the gaming industry,

 

I know. That is why I was clarifying how you should focus your discussion. A comment about the trends of the video game industry in general in a thread is misleading in a thread about why a PC Exclusive developer has reconsidered that stance.

 

because the history of comptuer gaming goes back way before the pc was a viable platform for computer games. The pc didn't have much piracy in the mid 80s, but the C64 did. After that it was mainly Amiga and Atari ST.

 

Now you're just being obtuse and obfuscating the issue. Taking "PC" to mean, literally and only IBM PC/Compatibles (I am uncertain as to what data you have to say it didn't have much piracy in the mid 80s), creates a disconnect that somehow the piracy of "PC" versus the Commodore 64, as well as the Amiga and Atari ST computers was somehow different in an attempt to validate your point. The platforms you listed are all personal computers, and were all subjected to the similar forms of piracy (namely, copying the floppy disk the application was on). In fact, there was nothing stopping you from making pirated copies of an MS-DOS game using an Apple II if you knew what you were doing.

 

 

In short, pc games sell at a lower price than console games, and so makes less money for the publishers and developers. And sometimes the manufacturers of the consoles will pay publishers and developers to release games for their consoles, making them even more money. Taking that into account, where would you publish your games?

 

Console have historically required a licensing fee in order to release a game for the console, which has resulted in the higher price for the console game. Are modern day consoles any different?

Edited May 6, 2008 by alanschu

[Pidesco]

The pc didn't have much piracy in the mid 80s

 

 

That is just not true.

[Nick_i_am]

Console have historically required a licensing fee in order to release a game for the console, which has resulted in the higher price for the console game. Are modern day consoles any different?

 

Not even slightly, though somtimes the console company pays for exclusive rights to a game. This is normally only done to shift consoles (and thus, gain a higher market share) and either way it's somebody having to make up for an extra cost with higher game prices.

Edited May 6, 2008 by Nick_i_am

[Jediphile]

I consistently spoke of the gaming industry,

 

I know. That is why I was clarifying how you should focus your discussion. A comment about the trends of the video game industry in general in a thread is misleading in a thread about why a PC Exclusive developer has reconsidered that stance.

 

Yes, I need you to define how I'm to focus my approach to the discussion

 

Seriously, just because you see it differently does not mean I have to adhere to your approach to the discussion. And you'll please forgive me if I also reserve my right to disagree with it.

 

Now you're just being obtuse and obfuscating the issue.

 

No. But please forgive me for thinking gaming history is relevant to a discussion of this sort.

 

Taking "PC" to mean, literally and only IBM PC/Compatibles (I am uncertain as to what data you have to say it didn't have much piracy in the mid 80s), creates a disconnect that somehow the piracy of "PC" versus the Commodore 64, as well as the Amiga and Atari ST computers was somehow different in an attempt to validate your point. The platforms you listed are all personal computers, and were all subjected to the similar forms of piracy (namely, copying the floppy disk the application was on). In fact, there was nothing stopping you from making pirated copies of an MS-DOS game using an Apple II if you knew what you were doing.

 

Did you even read what I actually wrote? I didn't say there was little piracy in the 80s, just that for the pc it was comparatible less than other platforms that were more widespread at the time.

 

Which brings me to something else:

The pc didn't have much piracy in the mid 80s

 

 

That is just not true.

 

That depends a lot on your point of reference. In the 80s the pc was use far less as a gaming machine next to many other personal computers out there at the time. Does 1000 pirated games constitues "much piracy"? Does 10.000? In that case, then sure, there was piracy on the pc. Perhaps even a lot depending on where you put down the number for what constitues "much piracy". However, it was far more widespread on other personal computers because the pc was not the most viable gaming platform for most people at the time.

 

 

Oh, and note Bioware's lastest anti-piracy pc approach:

http://pc.ign.com/articles/871/871900p1.html

 

Will it work to stop piracy? No.

Why? Because the pirates will just remove the code checking for updates.

End result: Pirates end up with a product less troublesome than paying gamers like me. Whether I'll play Mass Effect is another question, though. I've been mildly interested, but I've had to wait for a long time, and I neither like being dictated to by Bioware nor letting them take control of my system to share information without my consent.

[Pidesco]

Taking "PC" to mean, literally and only IBM PC/Compatibles (I am uncertain as to what data you have to say it didn't have much piracy in the mid 80s), creates a disconnect that somehow the piracy of "PC" versus the Commodore 64, as well as the Amiga and Atari ST computers was somehow different in an attempt to validate your point. The platforms you listed are all personal computers, and were all subjected to the similar forms of piracy (namely, copying the floppy disk the application was on). In fact, there was nothing stopping you from making pirated copies of an MS-DOS game using an Apple II if you knew what you were doing.

 

Did you even read what I actually wrote? I didn't say there was little piracy in the 80s, just that for the pc it was comparatible less than other platforms that were more widespread at the time.

 

Which brings me to something else:

The pc didn't have much piracy in the mid 80s

 

 

That is just not true.

 

That depends a lot on your point of reference. In the 80s the pc was use far less as a gaming machine next to many other personal computers out there at the time. Does 1000 pirated games constitues "much piracy"? Does 10.000? In that case, then sure, there was piracy on the pc. Perhaps even a lot depending on where you put down the number for what constitues "much piracy". However, it was far more widespread on other personal computers because the pc was not the most viable gaming platform for most people at the time.

 

 

Gaming piracy was only less on PC than other platforms because the PC was a smaller gaming platform that the C64 or the Spectrum. In relative terms, piracy was just as big on PC as it was on other platforms. In fact, not only was piracy a pretty large slice of the market, it was practically institutionalized. My first bought PC came with a bunch of pirated games installed; all of my school's PCs had pirated games installed by the teachers; shops sold pirated games for all platforms. The first PC game I bought that wasn't pirated, was in 1992.

 

If I had to guess, I'd say piracy was a much bigger problem for the industry in the 80s than today.

[Jediphile]

If I had to guess, I'd say piracy was a much bigger problem for the industry in the 80s than today.

 

Which I guess is the point I was trying to get to, yes.

[alanschu]

Seriously, just because you see it differently does not mean I have to adhere to your approach to the discussion. And you'll please forgive me if I also reserve my right to disagree with it.

 

It's not about me seeing it differently. It's about bringing up points of discussion that don't directly adhere to the topic of discussion. Bringing up the video games industry in general, and its issues with piracy, and applying it to a discussion about computer gaming (must be careful to no longer use the term "PC") is a textbook strawman. Crytek has issues about the piracy of the computer gaming market (valid or otherwise), and obviously is less concerned with issue of piracy for the video game industry in general, since they are expanding their development to the console platforms. Stating that the video game industry is thriving as a refute to Crytek's claims of piracy hurting computer gaming is logically incorrect.

 

 

No. But please forgive me for thinking gaming history is relevant to a discussion of this sort.

 

It is absolutely misdirection and obfuscation to trivialize my comments because I used the term PC, and then you decide to focus specifically on the term "PC" as in IBM/Compatible computers. Platforms such as the Apple II, Amiga, and Atari ST all suffered from the exact same type of piracy issues as the IBM/Compatibles did since they were all personal computers. If you're going to discuss gaming history, don't try to demonstrate how "PC" gaming was significantly different than gaming on the Commodore 64. With the deaths of platforms like Amiga, Atari ST, and the Commodore 64, came a consolidation of computer gaming onto the IBM PC/Compatible (x86) home computers.

 

 

Did you even read what I actually wrote? I didn't say there was little piracy in the 80s, just that for the pc it was comparatible less than other platforms that were more widespread at the time.

 

You quoted an entire paragraph where I point out the audacity of you scrutinizing the usage of the term "PC" for the history of gaming, and focused on a line that was in parentheses about where I bring up where you get the information for the level of piracy during the 80s. And you didn't even do it correctly, because it was a parenthetical comment in reference to the comment immediately preceding the parenthesis, and relating to your comment about piracy on IBM PC/Compatibles being less than on other computers. Even then the comment I made was about how you knew this...but I digress. Fortunately Pidesco already dealt with that particular comment, so I will not deal with it any further.

[Gorth]

All right, cut it out. I'm the devil's advocate around these parts, mkay?

I sure that a smart guy like you can do that without the implied personal insults...

[Spider]

No.

 

Smart devs win.

 

Whiners (and you) lose.

 

Game over man, game over!

 

What Brad Wardell has to say is actually quite interesting. But it's much more interesting if you read his original post, rather than a snub of it on a random web site.

 

The original post: http://forums.galciv2.com/303512

[Tigranes]

I've read the thread but I haven't really got much to add.. so perhaps this will be fuel for the fire for some, but Mass Effect PC copy protection will require internet authentification EVERY 10 DAYS until eternity.

 

Not buying that piece of crap, then. What, you guys are going to check up on me more often than the police checks up on sex offenders?

 

Giving a sale to the PC version is out of the question, I'll just have to borrow the friend's Xbox360 again to finish it.

[Gorth]

I've read the thread but I haven't really got much to add.. so perhaps this will be fuel for the fire for some, but Mass Effect PC copy protection will require internet authentification EVERY 10 DAYS until eternity.

• Gorth
  

I scratched my name from the list of potential buyers...

[Pidesco]

Spore will have the same system.

[Kaftan Barlast]

And what happens in 2 years when SecuRom decides they dont want to support this system anymore, and thus shuts down the authentication servers? There will be alot of people with alot of completely useless copies of a game they cant play anymore, thats what.

 

 

And thats all it will accomplish, because the game will be cracked and people will download it of torrent sites anyway. Its understandable that EA are scared witless of piracy, but this is the wrong way to go.

[Tigranes]

Spore will have the same system.

 

Then I guess I'm not buying Spore, either. I'm sure there may come a moment of compromise or the breaking of the back of principle sometime in the future, but it's not going to be that easy to make me buy something that treats me with more paranoia than sex offenders.

[Nick_i_am]

Which is a step up for some of us!

 

Actually, I should really buy Sins of a Solar empire just on principle, but HoI2 addict mode