Bioware - Are Their Games Actually That Good?

[Pidesco]

Well, MotB was a truly finished RPG from Obsidian, and I'd say it blows Bioware's last few games completely out of the water. I have yet to play ME, though.

[RangerSG]

Does Bioware have the "mantle of Lordship over CRPGs" right now? What is that anyway?

 

Technical innovation is nice, but I have not cared two zits over Bioware's rpgs ever since they started to remake the same story in a new setting. I concede that Mass Effect was a good effort, but there they instead decided to shamelessly rip off Alastair Reynolds, which wasn't a very polite thing to do to be honest. It did make for a very refreshing villain and a nice premise, just not ones that were of Bioware's own design. I give Bioware one thing, if I want fries with my rpg-burger, they provide. I go into an entirely different restaurant for something beyond the ordinaire.

 

Are you a fanboy? Yep. Did you write this on a competing company's board fully aware it would have to contain fanboys? Yep...in fact you did it intentionally to stir us up.

 

Judging people's motivations is always a dubious act. I didn't do it for any such reason at all. I did ti because quite frankly, the argument being used was so skewed as to no longer be a valid comparison. I have nothing against Obsidian, and I've been supporting them with my dollars the same as anyone else. For what it's worth, I don't care one bit about 'brands.' I care about the product. And as far as 'competing' goes, honestly I'd say there's a good bit of cooperation between the two, no? So putting them at odds seems unnecessary in my mind.

[dustin19]

Well, MotB was a truly finished RPG from Obsidian, and I'd say it blows Bioware's last few games completely out of the water. I have yet to play ME, though.

i think ME is biowares best game since kotor and it deserved to be game of the year...u should definately get it!!

[~Di]

Does Bioware have the "mantle of Lordship over CRPGs" right now? What is that anyway?

 

Technical innovation is nice, but I have not cared two zits over Bioware's rpgs ever since they started to remake the same story in a new setting. I concede that Mass Effect was a good effort, but there they instead decided to shamelessly rip off Alastair Reynolds, which wasn't a very polite thing to do to be honest. It did make for a very refreshing villain and a nice premise, just not ones that were of Bioware's own design. I give Bioware one thing, if I want fries with my rpg-burger, they provide. I go into an entirely different restaurant for something beyond the ordinaire.

 

Are you a fanboy? Yep. Did you write this on a competing company's board fully aware it would have to contain fanboys? Yep...in fact you did it intentionally to stir us up.

 

I daresay he posted his opinion because this is a forum where people post their opinions. That was a pretty hostile reply you gave to a perfectly civil and intelligent opinion. Did you mean it to be? Just disagreeing with someone isn't license to be rude, after all.

[Slowtrain]

I'll never forgive Bioware for making me rescue Imoen. Never. Oh and for Aerie period. Those were the end of my Bioware days for many a year.

 

 

I'm buying Mass Effect PC though. If Sand likes a game that much it is at least worth trying, I think.

[RangerSG]

Well, MotB was a truly finished RPG from Obsidian, and I'd say it blows Bioware's last few games completely out of the water. I have yet to play ME, though.

 

And I agree that MotB is an exceptional campaign and story. Much better than any of the NWN1 OCs (whether it's better than some of the community campaigns...*shrugs*) I don't think that they have addressed all the problems with the engine yet, and it still lacks the degree of customization the original had. NWN2 right now is a good vehicle for short to medium length SP campaigns (in terms of community building). But it is an inferior vehicle for long SP campaigns or MP play. As a result, it has not picked up a core piece of the original's audience, nor do I think it will.

 

Let me put the importance of the toolset as a technical innovation in perspective on a personal level. If it were not for the community content of NWN, I would 'never' have picked up NWN2 at all. I dumped NWN once, and only bought it a second time because people insisted I give it a chance 'for the community content.' I would still be playing Morrowind, which I think was preferable "out of the box" to NWN1 or NWN2...and certainly Oblivion. In truth, I'd still probably be playing KotOR 1 & 2 and have little/no concern with fantasy setting RPGs (save perhaps the Witcher). It's only the community content and customization that Bioware built into NWN1 that gave that game it's legs. Like it or hate it, it represented a significant risk in terms of time and resources to create it and offer it to the community.

[tripleRRR]

I'll never forgive Bioware for making me rescue Imoen. Never. Oh and for Aerie period. Those were the end of my Bioware days for many a year.

 

 

I'm buying Mass Effect PC though. If Sand likes a game that much it is at least worth trying, I think.

 

 

It's definately worth it. I usually hate console RPGs but Mass Effect was awesome. I'll definately be grabbing the PC version.

[thepixiesrock]

Console RPGs? What? Is that some sort of seperate genre?

[Kelverin]

Console RPGs? What? Is that some sort of seperate genre?

 

Yes, and quality is what separates them.

 

So far at least........

[Krookie]

Key word: past tense. They used to make good games.

 

Shouldn't you have put the emphasis on "used" and not "good"?

[Laozi]

Look who can read all of the sudden.

[Sand]

I'll never forgive Bioware for making me rescue Imoen. Never. Oh and for Aerie period. Those were the end of my Bioware days for many a year.

 

 

I'm buying Mass Effect PC though. If Sand likes a game that much it is at least worth trying, I think.

 

I appreciate the notion that I sometimes have good taste.

 

However I am canceling my order of the PC version of the game. Its copy protection scheme is a little to draconian for my taste.

[Pidesco]

Well, MotB was a truly finished RPG from Obsidian, and I'd say it blows Bioware's last few games completely out of the water. I have yet to play ME, though.

i think ME is biowares best game since kotor and it deserved to be game of the year...u should definately get it!!

 

That's not saying much, though, is it?

 

 

 

Well, MotB was a truly finished RPG from Obsidian, and I'd say it blows Bioware's last few games completely out of the water. I have yet to play ME, though.

 

And I agree that MotB is an exceptional campaign and story. Much better than any of the NWN1 OCs (whether it's better than some of the community campaigns...*shrugs*) I don't think that they have addressed all the problems with the engine yet, and it still lacks the degree of customization the original had. NWN2 right now is a good vehicle for short to medium length SP campaigns (in terms of community building). But it is an inferior vehicle for long SP campaigns or MP play. As a result, it has not picked up a core piece of the original's audience, nor do I think it will.

 

Let me put the importance of the toolset as a technical innovation in perspective on a personal level. If it were not for the community content of NWN, I would 'never' have picked up NWN2 at all. I dumped NWN once, and only bought it a second time because people insisted I give it a chance 'for the community content.' I would still be playing Morrowind, which I think was preferable "out of the box" to NWN1 or NWN2...and certainly Oblivion. In truth, I'd still probably be playing KotOR 1 & 2 and have little/no concern with fantasy setting RPGs (save perhaps the Witcher). It's only the community content and customization that Bioware built into NWN1 that gave that game it's legs. Like it or hate it, it represented a significant risk in terms of time and resources to create it and offer it to the community.

 

Well, I don't know about MP as I never tried it, but I thought that NWN1's engine was pretty awful for long SP campaigns. Only allowing for one player controlled character really hurt the variety and my interest in playing anything longer than a few hours on NWN1's engine. Finally, the toolset really doesn't enter into the discussion of Bioware's abilities in making RPGs.

[Sand]

That's not saying much, though, is it?

 

Even Bioware's worse game is still better than some companies' best games.

[Kelverin]

That's not saying much, though, is it?

 

Even Bioware's worse game is still better than some companies' best games.

That's not saying much, though, is it?

[RangerSG]

Well, MotB was a truly finished RPG from Obsidian, and I'd say it blows Bioware's last few games completely out of the water. I have yet to play ME, though.

i think ME is biowares best game since kotor and it deserved to be game of the year...u should definately get it!!

 

That's not saying much, though, is it?

 

 

 

Well, MotB was a truly finished RPG from Obsidian, and I'd say it blows Bioware's last few games completely out of the water. I have yet to play ME, though.

 

And I agree that MotB is an exceptional campaign and story. Much better than any of the NWN1 OCs (whether it's better than some of the community campaigns...*shrugs*) I don't think that they have addressed all the problems with the engine yet, and it still lacks the degree of customization the original had. NWN2 right now is a good vehicle for short to medium length SP campaigns (in terms of community building). But it is an inferior vehicle for long SP campaigns or MP play. As a result, it has not picked up a core piece of the original's audience, nor do I think it will.

 

Let me put the importance of the toolset as a technical innovation in perspective on a personal level. If it were not for the community content of NWN, I would 'never' have picked up NWN2 at all. I dumped NWN once, and only bought it a second time because people insisted I give it a chance 'for the community content.' I would still be playing Morrowind, which I think was preferable "out of the box" to NWN1 or NWN2...and certainly Oblivion. In truth, I'd still probably be playing KotOR 1 & 2 and have little/no concern with fantasy setting RPGs (save perhaps the Witcher). It's only the community content and customization that Bioware built into NWN1 that gave that game it's legs. Like it or hate it, it represented a significant risk in terms of time and resources to create it and offer it to the community.

 

Well, I don't know about MP as I never tried it, but I thought that NWN1's engine was pretty awful for long SP campaigns. Only allowing for one player controlled character really hurt the variety and my interest in playing anything longer than a few hours on NWN1's engine. Finally, the toolset really doesn't enter into the discussion of Bioware's abilities in making RPGs.

 

To take your last point first, the toolset most definitely enters the discussion for NWN, since that was one of the primary intents of the game, and to dismiss what was a primary emphasis in design. You may not use it, or care about it, but it's most certainly part of the NWN franchise. And to ignore it in the discussion is faulty reasoning.

 

As far as only controlling one PC goes, I honestly think NWN2 tried too hard to have it both ways with PC control. It made fights in the NWN2 OC incredibly sloppy. MOTB was easier...but in large part because the party was smaller. Besides, you're the hero, not the hero and the entire party. Although I like real interactions with my companions, I do NOT want to RP my party. Although I'd like something between the "character switching" routine of NWN2 and KotOR 1&2 and the vague command system of NWN1. I honestly think it's not in the spirit of an RPG to have total tactical command of every action of your NPCs. In Fallout you weren't able to take total command of your party either. Didn't keep that from being a great game. Did controlling one player hurt Fallout or Fallout 2's variety? I think the problem here is that people assume NWN was going to be like the IE games. It's not. And the comparison is apples and oranges. The only thing they have in common is the D&D franchise.

 

Regardless of the mechanics of a combat system (provided I have a realistic chance of winning if I prepared properly) what I want out of an RPG is a believable and immersive role playing experience. The lack of customization in NWN2 compared to NWN1 makes for a marked lack of comparative immesrsion for a sustained campaign. The quality of writing in MoTB is exceptional and ambitious. But the vagaries of the engine and problems with PC customization linger. So while I agree that MoTB is preferable 'out of the box,' much work remains to be done to sell the community on investing it's time as it did with NWN1.

Edited May 14, 2008 by RangerSG

[Pidesco]

Regardless of the mechanics of a combat system (provided I have a realistic chance of winning if I prepared properly) what I want out of an RPG is a believable and immersive role playing experience. The lack of customization in NWN2 compared to NWN1 makes for a marked lack of comparative immesrsion for a sustained campaign.

 

I'm confused. If you want a believable and immersie role playing experience, then why do you play Bioware's RPGs?

 

And also, what, exactly do you mean by lack of customization?

[thepixiesrock]

Console RPGs? What? Is that some sort of seperate genre?

 

Yes, and quality is what separates them.

 

So far at least........

 

 

What are some console RPGs?

[Sand]

Console RPGs? What? Is that some sort of seperate genre?

 

Yes, and quality is what separates them.

 

So far at least........

 

 

What are some console RPGs?

 

Prime examples would be the various JRPGs that get imported.

[thepixiesrock]

But those are JRPGs.

[Xard]

JRPGS, Kotors, Jade Empire, Mass Effect

[thepixiesrock]

Yeah, and I don't see how the other three were of lesser quality than other RPGs. I mean, it seemed that they were "worthy" enough to be made for PCs too.

[Meshugger]

Console RPGs? What? Is that some sort of seperate genre?

 

Yes, and quality is what separates them.

 

So far at least........

 

 

What are some console RPGs?

 

Prime examples would be the various JRPGs that get imported.

 

 

JRPGs ARE NOT INFERIOR!!

 

i thank kingcomrade at the 'codex for such nice illustration of nerdrage

Edited May 14, 2008 by Meshugger

[Pidesco]

The quality standards for JRPGs are rather low, though.

 

JRPGs just seem to have, mostly, been going nowhere for the past 20 years. Also, when a JRPG shows up that tries to innovate or change something, it generally gets either ignored or trashed.

[Kelverin]

Console RPGs? What? Is that some sort of seperate genre?

 

Yes, and quality is what separates them.

 

So far at least........

 

 

What are some console RPGs?

 

Here are some samples.

 

Dragon Quest

Final Fantasy

The Legend of Zelda

Crystalis

Faxanadu

Magic of Scheherazade

Willow

The Battle of Olympus

Dragon Quest II

Phantasy Star

Ys Book

Cosmic Fantasy 2

Double Dungeons

Neutopia

Landstalker

Shining Force

Lunar: The Silver Star

Crusader of Centry

Sword of Vermillion

Master of Monsters

Shining in the Darkness

Shadowrun

Vay

Beyond Oasis

Dark Wizard

Eternal Blue

Earthbound

Lufia II: Rise of the Sinistrals

Soul Blazer, Illusion of Gaia, Terranigma

The 7th Saga

Ogre Battle: March of the Black Queen

Revelations: Persona

Xenogears

King's Field

Beyond the Beyond

Legacy of Kain: Blood Omen

Suikoden

Fire Emblem: Radiant Dawn

Jeanne D'Arc

Baroque