Combat

[Pop]

And will it be too much? How will the weapon skills break down, if at all? We know there's unarmed combat. Will there be different kinds of martial arts? Wonder...

Edited March 13, 2008 by Pop

[Pidesco]

Will unarmed be an option only really available to stealth characters, or will you be able fight "River Tam" style with masses of opponents?

[Meshugger]

Will it be like Deus Ex? Difficult to target when lacking pistol (marksman?) skill? Localized damage? Etc, etc...

[Zoma]

And what does "Controls similar to Bioshock in selecting weapons and power" equates to?

 

We know there will be weapons, but what 'powers' will our Agent be capable of selecting and executing in A.P's term?

[Pop]

It just means that you'll have a radial menu for selecting weapons.

[walkerguy]

Can you do a melee kick with his stylish shoes?

[Deadly_Nightshade]

I would hope that one could also fight with poisons, toxins, and other tools of the blacker side of the espionage game.

[walkerguy]

I would hope that one could also fight with poisons, toxins, and other tools of the blacker side of the espionage game.

 

Well of course. I hope OE wouldn't be so blind as to not include that.

[mkreku]

Please, PLEASE don't let there be any psionic/magic/plasmid/whatever powers in this game! Just an all out believable story (except for the stuff where you get shot a billion times and survive , of course) without anything supernatural..

 

Oh, and PLEASE get a lot of inspiration from Deus Ex. Play it during work days. Play it during nights. Play it during breakfast. Play it while having sex with your girlfriends. PLAY IT! CONSTANTLY!

[Humodour]

Please, PLEASE don't let there be any psionic/magic/plasmid/whatever powers in this game! Just an all out believable story (except for the stuff where you get shot a billion times and survive , of course) without anything supernatural..

 

Oh, and PLEASE get a lot of inspiration from Deus Ex. Play it during work days. Play it during nights. Play it during breakfast. Play it while having sex with your girlfriends. PLAY IT! CONSTANTLY!

 

Agreed!

 

Also, I liked how Deus Ex (ONE) handled the powers/magic aspect of the game. The augmentations were scientific, believable, restricted, and most of all based off current technology. Still, I'd probably be content with no special powers, as in Fallout.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Future_Force_Warrior

[Shryke]

Oh, and PLEASE get a lot of inspiration from Deus Ex. Play it during work days. Play it during nights. Play it during breakfast. Play it while having sex with your girlfriends. PLAY IT! CONSTANTLY!

well i did (and still do) play Deus Ex a lot, but never that much

 

i also agree about the no psychic powers/augmentations/etc

 

there are other ways you could include interesting options

 

jabbing someone with a syringe full of poison for a silent take down or something

[Musopticon?]

And please, PLEASE: Do restricted take-downs. What I mean is the problem of both Thief and Hitman(less and less with Blood Money) and to an extent Chronicles of Riddick, the reason why stealth is almost always the best option when available: You are not penalized in anyway with successful and constant knockouts, and indeed you can use the same winning formula to take out enemies just as long as you keep some arbitrary "stealth meter" full, no matter that in reality making a whole complex full of people pass out or silently be forgotten to dark corners(dead or unconscious, it has so far hardly mattered) would be next to impossible, or at least highly improbable thanks to radios, guard change routines or just plain old human wits(="I guess it was rats""olol, a dark closet, tam-te-dam, just walking my oval here, la-la-laa!").

 

Don't take me wrong, I absolutely adore stealth games, but rather than giving stealth gameplay mechanics that force you to interact with opponents in often forceful manner in an obstacle course, have mechanics that instead try to hammer in the idea that the best way to stay unseen and unnoticed is not go anywhere near the enemy! I mean, throwing coins or rocks to distract drone-like guards, or flicking a lightswitch(!) and then passing unnoticed works well in an environment that presents a set of tools to circumvent openings in a system, just like in a puzzle, but I would prefer if stealth was unnoticeable and subtle, a welcome addition to a wealth of methods(like gun-ho and infiltration). A game that caused you to mix and mash different approaches to problems, instead of taking along a sort of a strict "stealth class" or a "gunner build" in an otherwise classless system.

 

So far, only Deus Ex has had anything at least remotely similar. And even the god-game suffered from having a god-stick similar to Thief's blackjack; the nightstick. You could very well shut down whole complexes of hive-like office hierarchy and high-tech augmented wetworks with just your nightstick and a set of multitools. Gee, I do love the feeling of power that I get from being undetectable and uncatchable, but it's slowly starting to lose the shine it used to have.

[Pop]

There's always MGS. But that's not necessarily realistic, AI-wise, and rules out run and gun gameplay.

[Tale]

I really liked how Blood Money did it. You don't go around trying to be unnoticed taking everyone out. You make it look like you belong there. That's how Assassin Creed mostly handles it, too, but it has a very simple system of just pressing a button to suddenly fit in.

 

Metal Gear Solid tries to be better about it, but not too hard. In 2 and 3 if you knock a guy unconcious or kill him, sometimes someone will come looking when he doesn't report in. However, they don't find it weird that he's got a sleeping dart stuck in his neck and if you knock out or kill the other guy, you have nothing at all to worry about. Which is actually still a more complicated and interesting system than others use, but the net effect on the player's actions seems insignificant.

 

I too would prefer a more interesting stealth system than hiding in dark rooms and around corners while knocking guards out who are in your way. Whether that be because of difficulty using that method or simply because of better stealth/infiltration options (such as disguises and scaling walls), I won't claim to be too picky about.

Edited March 14, 2008 by Tale

[Shryke]

i liked the little stealth portion in Red Faction 1

[Hurlshort]

Mus, maybe I'm misreading, but are you against 100% success take down moves? I can understand that it's unbelievable to have every attack from behind be an absolute success, but I'm not sure about supporting an arbitrary system where sometimes you win, sometimes you don't. I think that would lead to a lot of frustration re-loads on my part.

[Tale]

Mus, maybe I'm misreading, but are you against 100% success take down moves? I can understand that it's unbelievable to have every attack from behind be an absolute success, but I'm not sure about supporting an arbitrary system where sometimes you win, sometimes you don't. I think that would lead to a lot of frustration re-loads on my part.

You are misreading, but he did word it kind of funny. He's against knocking every guard you come across out without their being any consequences. Ideally, knocking guards unconscious should raise suspicion and alarm. Even if the guard is never found.

[Hurlshort]

Ah, I'm ok with that. It makes sense over time the lack of guards will be noticed.

 

As long as I don't try hitting a guy, only to find he's got a super hard noggin and turns around to beat me down.

[walkerguy]

As long as I don't try hitting a guy, only to find he's got a super hard noggin and turns around to beat me down.

 

rofl

[Humodour]

Agreed with Muso. As much as I adore silently taking everyone out with my baton, I'd prefer if stealth was more complex, sometimes a mix of stealth and forced combat, etc (because they called over the radio, activated an alarm, whatever). Still, it's a fine line. Don't change it so that stealth isn't fun any more.

 

i liked the little stealth portion in Red Faction 1

 

Oh dear god, please no.

[Tigranes]

Mus wins the thread!

 

Having come out of a recent Thief2/3 marathon, I have to agree. When I played both games first time, I tried to 'ghost' it nearly the entire way; that means never, ever being seen (as in, identified as a thief), and never hitting anyone. It is possible (and not *too* difficult) to play the Thief games this way. In the recent playthroughs though, I didn't go easy on the blackjack - and sometimes ended up with a dark closet with six or seven bodies squeezed in there in odd ragdoll fashion (you'd think they have no bones). The thing is, I found little difference between ghosting and Guard Genocide modes, because even if you are discovered and they find the bodies of the dead, if you hide in a dark corner, go for a cuppa and come back everything's fine and dandy.

 

I would really really like to see some realistic security mechanisms in Alpha Protocol - *that* is what the excess processing power should be used for. If you are discovered in a location, the guards in the surrounding area should move to cover all points of exit from the immediate vicinity, and other guards farther away should be called there - so if you aren't out quickly you are screwed (or in a very uncomfortable place), but if you do get away quickly then you can even use this to your advantage. Eventually, the guards will go back, but if that happens two or three times in a mission or in one night then they would go around turning all the lights on and maybe calling up more guards off-shift. Things like that.

[Hell Kitty]

I want to be able to shoot the radios of enemies like in MGS2/3. Trying calling for backup now, jerks.

[Shryke]

i liked the little stealth portion in Red Faction 1

 

Oh dear god, please no.

 

what, i'm not saying it was brilliant or anything, but it was a nice little break from the generic run and gun formula

 

hiding bodies, keeping your weapon holstered, and not getting close enough to guards for them to recognise you

 

done well, it can be very good

[Pop]

I want to be able to shoot the radios of enemies like in MGS2/3. Trying calling for backup now, jerks.

You couldn't do that in 2, the radios were nanite things.

[Tale]

I want to be able to shoot the radios of enemies like in MGS2/3. Trying calling for backup now, jerks.

You couldn't do that in 2, the radios were nanite things.

Yes, you could. No, they weren't. (actually they were, but only for plot relevant characters)

Edited March 15, 2008 by Tale