"the last" Jedi?

[Blarghagh]

I haven't read most of this topic, just about the first page, but I suspect that Bastila seized to be a Jedi in most cases at the end of KoTOR 1.

 

If you played Dark Side Revan, she always ended up as a Sith (if I remember correctly, a holocron displays this in KoTOR 2).

 

Light Side Female, you could redeem or kill Bastila. If you redeemed her, I think this would be the only case in which Bastila possibly rejoined the Jedi Order. However, if Revan is set as Light Side Female, Bastila does not appear in KoTOR 2 anyway. Because of this, we must assume she is either dead or has not rejoined the order. (It IS possible that she is in hiding, like the Jedi Masters, but the game states repeatedly that these are Jedi no longer.) I personally think that in this continuity, she's dead. I do not think Bastila would be very effective at hiding herself.

 

Light Side Male had the same choices plus redeeming her through love. Technically, she could be alive as a Jedi if chosen to just redeem her, but when set to Revan Light Side Male, KoTOR 2 makes it clear that in this continuity that the option taken by Revan was definately that of redeeming her through love (for example, she is singled out when Kreia explains that Revan could not take his loved ones). Since love is against the Jedi Code and she has learned what it means, Bastila would never return to the Jedi Order, instead "pulling a Bindo" and leaving the Jedi Order.

 

This is all a moot point though. The Sith, afterall, are hunting the Exile as well, who is... well, an Exile. He or she is no longer of the Jedi Order either. Why would Bastila (especially with her powerful Battle Meditation gift) be ignored whereas the Exile, who can no longer hear the Force, be hunted? I suppose because of Kreia's influence, but Kreia was exiled from the Sith. Plus, even under her guidance at the time, they destroyed the other Jedi, so why again was Bastila given special treatment? I think Bastila's cameo was basically a bit of plothole in KoTOR 2.

 

Still, I'd rather see her than see Carth alone, so I generally put Revan as a Light Side Male anyway.

 

Edited for grammar because I suck.

Edited May 12, 2008 by TrueNeutral

[Jediphile]

Light Side Female, you could redeem or kill Bastila. If you redeemed her, I think this would be the only case in which Bastila possibly rejoined the Jedi Order. However, if Revan is set as Light Side Female, Bastila does not appear in KoTOR 2 anyway. Because of this, we must assume she is either dead or has not rejoined the order. (It IS possible that she is in hiding, like the Jedi Masters, but the game states repeatedly that these are Jedi no longer.) I personally think that in this continuity, she's dead. I do not think Bastila would be very effective at hiding herself.

 

That would be a reasonable assumption. However, Bastila appears with the companions in the LS ending of KotOR regardless of Revan's gender...

 

This is all a moot point though. The Sith, afterall, are hunting the Exile as well, who is... well, an Exile. He or she is no longer of the Jedi Order either. Why would Bastila (especially with her powerful Battle Meditation gift) be ignored whereas the Exile, who can no longer hear the Force, be hunted? I suppose because of Kreia's influence, but Kreia was exiled from the Sith. Plus, even under her guidance at the time, they destroyed the other Jedi, so why again was Bastila given special treatment? I think Bastila's cameo was basically a bit of plothole in KoTOR 2.

 

Exile is hunted instead of Bastila or the masters on the council because Atris arranged the Exile's return to the Republic and then leaked information about him to the Sith in order to make the Exile a target that the Sith would then try to kill, thus believing revealing themselves thinking there were no other jedi left to stand against them. Pay attention to what HK-47 tells the exile about reading about him in the coreward databases and how Atris admits having staged the exile's return and made him a target for the Sith when you finally confront her after meeting the masters.

[Mellypie]

Exile is hunted instead of Bastila or the masters on the council because Atris arranged the Exile's return to the Republic and then leaked information about him to the Sith in order to make the Exile a target that the Sith would then try to kill, thus believing revealing themselves thinking there were no other jedi left to stand against them. Pay attention to what HK-47 tells the exile about reading about him in the coreward databases and how Atris admits having staged the exile's return and made him a target for the Sith when you finally confront her after meeting the masters.

 

Jediphile is correct. If you pick the right dialog options (unfortunately I can't remember which ones) when confronting Atris at end game then she tells the PC all of this. That's why the bounty hunters and Goto all knew about the Exile. That's why the Sith all knew about the Exile. And that's also why Kreia knew about the Exile. Atris did it all to get revenge on the Exile (whether she realized it or not) and to have her moment of glory.

Edited May 12, 2008 by Mellypie

[Jediphile]

Atris did it all to get revenge on the Exile (whether she realized it or not) and to have her moment of glory.

 

There might have been an element of that, but that can neither be confirmed or denied from what we learn in the game (and the cut content), where Atris simply states that she did this to make the sith reveal themselves.

 

She even leaked information of the jedi conclave on Katarr to the Sith and so caused the destruction of the planet that Nihilus wrought there, except that comment was cut from the game. Note, however, how the masters are surprised to hear that Atris is on Telos, if you mention it to them, since they thought she too had died on Katarr.

[Kyrivian]

Atris did it all to get revenge on the Exile (whether she realized it or not) and to have her moment of glory.

 

There might have been an element of that, but that can neither be confirmed or denied from what we learn in the game (and the cut content), where Atris simply states that she did this to make the sith reveal themselves.

 

She even leaked information of the jedi conclave on Katarr to the Sith and so caused the destruction of the planet that Nihilus wrought there, except that comment was cut from the game. Note, however, how the masters are surprised to hear that Atris is on Telos, if you mention it to them, since they thought she too had died on Katarr.

 

Indeed. Atris is the kind of person, from dialogue both cut and in the game, to take on teh sith singlehandedly because they are sith, and therefor lacking in the mental department.

 

Glad there aren't more JEdi like Atris. Then the well-known quote "Evil will always triumph over good because good is dumb" would be truer than we know...

[Mellypie]

There might have been an element of that, but that can neither be confirmed or denied from what we learn in the game (and the cut content), where Atris simply states that she did this to make the sith reveal themselves.

Oh, I know. The revenge thing is just my own personal interpretation considering the way she acts during the Exile's trial. I mean she wanted to execute her/him! As for the glory part, I could have sworn she said something (either in game or cut content) about watching two wars pass her by and she wasn't going to let a third? But maybe I'm misremembering?

Edited May 13, 2008 by Mellypie

[RangerSG]

I think if you hit the dialoges right you can get Atris to say she won't let another war pass her by...or something close enough to that...in the initial meeting. And that may very well be her motivation in leaking everything, to try to prove (to herself?) she is just as able to confront 'evil' as the Exile she despises, given the "right" circumstances.

 

I'd agree that Kevar and Bindo are the two who are portrayed most favorably, along w/ little Yoda clone. I would also say that since Canon Revan is LS male, that the official interpretation on Bastila is probably "She pulled a Bindo" since her redemption is said to be on the basis of love.

[DeathScepter]

There might have been an element of that, but that can neither be confirmed or denied from what we learn in the game (and the cut content), where Atris simply states that she did this to make the sith reveal themselves.

Oh, I know. The revenge thing is just my own personal interpretation considering the way she acts during the Exile's trial. I mean she wanted to execute her/him! As for the glory part, I could have sworn she said something (either in game or cut content) about watching two wars pass her by and she wasn't going to let a third? But maybe I'm misremembering?

 

I do think it is her anger is towards Revan, Exile being an Ideal Jedi(in her mind) while choosing Revan over her, and her own insecurities and self-doubt that influence her actions in Kotor 2.

 

 

So The Revenge theory and the Personal Insecurities theory are sound.

[Swxpert]

plus atris deludes herself in thinking she is a saint, but she's worse then most, telling nihulus were the jedi are so he can killl them.

[DeathScepter]

her own delusions are her attempts to hold on to the past and her own insecurities and self doubts being a Jedi and her relationship to the Jedi Order.

[Swxpert]

its her own fault for keeping sith artifacts so close to her person

[Jediphile]

its her own fault for keeping sith artifacts so close to her person

 

Actually, I'd say ignoring her own motivations and feelings is the real cause, which her Sith artifacts could then subsequently play on corrupt her over the years.

 

Atris' greatest flaw is her utter refusal to acknowledge that she is neither infallible nor incorruptible, and she had that flaw in spades long before she ever saw any artifacts, Sith or otherwise.

 

But yes, they are what eventually made her fall, and as a jedi master she should have known better. To keep such artifacts around while accusing the exile of giving in to the dark side by going to war is, as HK-50 would say, the highest form of hipocrisy.

[Kyrivian]

plus atris deludes herself in thinking she is a saint, but she's worse then most, telling nihulus were the jedi are so he can killl them.

 

 

It wasn't so much so Nihilus coulud kill them, it's so he'd reveal himself, and atris's beloved invincible Jedi would destroy him utterly. Only problem with that plan is the whole "He eats worlds" part.

[DeathScepter]

what I have been saying is that it is her own insecurities, doubts and fears that lead her to make those choices and denials thereof. She has an element of self loathing that lead to her denials and getting those Sith Artifacts.

[Swxpert]

atris like most jedi needs a good shrink

[walkerguy]

the jedi are shrinks. Im not trying to be funny either