Just finished replaying the KOTORs (many spoilers)

[Starwars]

Just finished up KOTOR2. This time I decided to do evil playthroughs. I'd done a Dark Side playthrough of KOTOR1 before, but not KOTOR2.

 

I must say that KOTOR2 was especially enjoyable, I liked it a lot more now than when I played it before.

I enjoy the story of KOTOR1, it is very Star Warsy so to speak. Fun and easy to follow, with a nice twist to the story. The trouble with KOTOR1 for me is that nearly all of the stuff outside the main story is, well, not that good. When looking back on the areas you visit, there are really not a lot of them that I think fondly of unfortunately. Taris is fine until you get to the Undercity and have to go throughthat, the gang base and then Daviks place. Argh, it's so boring.

Dantooine is probably my favourite planet all in all. Nice atmosphere, you get to become a Jedi, and there are not that many frustrations. I hate the "solve murder" quest though as it just clicking, clicking, clicking without use of skills/stats or anything. The family feuds is really nice, and satisfying as Dark Side.

 

Tatooine and Manaan are my least favourites of the Star Map worlds. For some reason I've never liked the Sand People quest, and the areas are to big and uninteresting. Manaan is OK while in the city, but the underwater base is boooring.

Kashyyyk is not bad and doesn't have any big frustrations. A bit uninteresting though.

 

The unknown planet (before the Star Forge) is awful, and feels thrown in to lengthen the game. It's nice you get the choice on who to aid here, but that race is one of the most uninteresting and strangely annoying in the game.

The Star Forge itself is a terrible "last dungeon", god I hate games where they just throw enemies at you almost endlessly.

 

The main story saves the game for me, it's not enormously complex or anything, but it's told nicely and it's engaging in a Star Wars kind of manner.

 

I actually really enjoyed KOTOR2 this time around. I really liked the overall direction Obsidian took, trying to sort of insert gray areas into the universe but still keeping the classic Light/Dark side. The story is very, very enjoyable though harmed by some missing content. This game also has some classic scenes to it that really got me into the game. The first conversation you have with Atris for example is just wonderful, and very well written (as is most of the game).

Peragus is a missed opportunity I feel. They've got a great "spooky" atmosphere going here, but it just goes on for to long unfortunately. Telos is also rather boring, and I don't like the part where you're not in the city at all.

The planets all their annoyances, but unlike KOTOR1, I don't view them with contempt when thinking back on them. It never, or very rarely at least, goes over my "frustration threshold". Nar Shadaa is a slight disappointment I think, as I would prefer... well, not sure. More interesting roleplaying in an urban atmosphere I suppose. The whole Jekk'Jekk Tar bit is a bit boring, as is G0-T0s yacht.

 

Quite possibly the worst bit (unfortunately) is Nihilus' ship and Malachor V/The Academy. Just way to much fighting going on here. While the engine itself is fairly fun visually, the combat in these games is simply not fun at all to me. Granted, I like the combat more in KOTOR2 for some reason, but it just doesn't the spot for me, and there are no places in the game where I felt combat was truly fun. It's a shame as the game does a great job of setting up a memorable encounter (Darth Nihilus for example), but the actual encounters themselves fail to deliver. This holds true for both games, except that I think KOTOR2 does a better job of making the "key battles" feel memorable from a story point of view, as well as in the visual sense (again, approaching Nihilus on the bridge is a great moment).

 

I also liked the companions a great deal more this time. Kreia I consider to be one of the greatest characters in cRPG history, and I really love that she is actually in your party during the game. The others are a bit hit-and-miss though, but I feel ultimately more interesting than KOTOR1s. I decided to bring along G0-T0 this time around, and I grew to like him quite a bit (in the "evil bastard" sense). I've always disliked him before, but when giving him a chance he totally delivered. He had some fun moments. It's also nice how the influence system actually lets you influence some of your companions this time (seemingly something that Obsidian removed from NWN2 and MotB). While it's definetely not completely consistant, I feel it's a good step forward for RPGs, and I hope we'll see the return of that in future games from Obsidian.

 

If there ever is a KOTOR3, I really really hope that Obsidian will be the ones getting the chance to do it. I felt they were very unfairly treated in how (or rather, how little) development time they got. Nevertheless, they still managed to deliver a game that for me outshines the first game by quite a lot. While I suppose they went away from the "Star Warsyness", I feel that is all in all a good thing as I don't think it fits very well in a compelling roleplaying game. It inserted a sense of mystery and darkness into the universe, and still didn't overstep and feel completely "out there".

[Khan_Mace]

I'm currently toward the end of my first KotOR series playthrough in years as well and I think you've got it all just about right.

[pinion42]

nice post, Starwars. i haven't played either in a long while but i plan to do that again soon. they've definitely had more replayability, for me anyway, than any other games i own.

 

i agree with you on many of your points-- though i must unabashedly say i was never bored during any parts of kotor1 or 2... i guess i'm a sucker for starwarsy stuff -- and am happy to see others enjoyed the story of kotor2 as much as i did. yes there were bugs (though in my 2 playthroughs i never ran into many honestly) and there was removed content important to the story, but i still find that neither the overall gameplay or story were hurt severely by this.

 

i must state that on a pure enjoyment level these are my two absolute favourite games. that said, while there was a general feeling of "yeah its good ... but disappointing" surrounding kotor2, i found it surpassed the original in every way. the content was darker, the characters more mature and moody. there were more hidden agendas, ruthless enemies, and moral question marks ... just everything about it i loved so much. i could go on for hours

 

just makes me happy when other people enjoy it on the level that i did :D

[Brdavs]

Hm now I got the munchies heh...

 

1 question to seal the deal and I run off replaying after 1 year:

 

Is there a mod out that enables you to be male and get disciple instead of handmaiden? (a mod for female getting her instead of him indeed exists) Or alternativly can one fiddle around with KSE to get the desired effect?

Edited January 25, 2008 by Brdavs

[Knights&Darths]

Is there a mod out that enables you to be male and get disciple instead of handmaiden?

Well, I haven't checked for any mods, but the Disciple encounter dialog just lets a global boolean determine whether Disciple should join the party. You may save the game before talking to him, then use a savegame editor to change 000_PLAYER_GENDER to FALSE, let Disciple join and save again, then put the old value back. You can do the same about the Handmaiden to avoid getting her in your party, just be sure to restart the savegame editor each time you save the game.

[Khan_Mace]

You must be the first Disciple fan I've met.

[Brdavs]

Tnx I`ll give it a try...

 

Fan? I lack info to pass a judgment actually, never bothered doing a female playthrough, allways limited my variations to light/dark... My Exile`s allways the Jezus d00de heh...

 

it`s the beard

[Knights&Darths]

Then for now I must be the only Disciple lover over here.

If you never played as female, you might want to give it a try, Disciple hitting on a male Exile is kind of weird, in that he would refer to the Exile as a woman. Why the Exile should be able to choose her own entourage, I should consider making a mod to get no gender issues or restrictions while actually choosing either Disciple or Handmaiden in-game.

[LadyCrimson]

Then for now I must be the only Disciple lover over here.

Wrong.

Although I don't love him in a big romantic way...and I initially found him irritating...but he grew on me and eventually my Kotor2 group would always consist of Atton and Disciple.

[Gorgon]

I always went with Mission and HK, I couldn\t stand anyone else.

[Petra]

Starwars, maybe you just don't like fighting or fighting the way it was implemented in KOTORs?

I'm not a fan of Star Wars series at all, but these two games are so great that they're my favorite games now And fighting was the best part of both for me, it was really cool to be able to use "magic" and lightsabers, the way it all was implemented was perfect for me (unlike many other games). But it was not just what you fight with, it was how it was done that made fighting so enjoyable!

 

As for being bored, there was only one thing I can complain about: the beginning of KOTOR2. I felt that the game lacked any action whatsoever, quests were interesting but it all felt more like a long introduction than the game, and I was dreading that the whole game would be like that.... but the game suddenly picked up pace when I went to the Czerka Base on Telos. After that, it was balanced, fighting mixed with various quests.

Still I felt there was not enough of fighting in the game overall, it was especially clear on Malachor's surface. The Academy was great, though

 

About the planets I can say I really liked all of them, but I'd like them all to be as big as Taris was. It had three levels to investigate, lots of quests, and all other planets from both games seem shallow after such a magnificent start. Think Korriban in KOTOR2, what an awfully small area, and you spend too little time there.

 

All in all, we disagree almost on everything I'm not a fan of action in RPGs, but in KOTORs it was done in such a great way that I loved it.

Edited January 31, 2008 by Petra

[Starwars]

Heya Petra.

 

You're right in that I would normally like a lot less fighting than we normally see in cRPGs. Or perhaps, more ways to bypass combat (if one have the appropiate skills). But well, I don't like KOTORs combat much. It's sort of based on D&D, but it has a lot less options which is a bit of a downer if one comes from D&D background (whether computergaming or P&P). Now, this can be used to create a tighter and more focused combat experience, as the devs can balance the game better (since there are less possible builds), but KOTORs combat is just to easy. AND (heh), I'm not to fond of realtime with pause systems.

I definetely agree though that it's lots of fun to play a Jedi and wield the Force. It also looks nice visually.

 

But yes, I think our tastes just differ from each other.

[Khan_Mace]

Then for now I must be the only Disciple lover over here.

Wrong.

Although I don't love him in a big romantic way...and I initially found him irritating...but he grew on me and eventually my Kotor2 group would always consist of Atton and Disciple.

Mine would have Disciple as well, but simply because I always used Jedi.

[Deadly_Nightshade]

Is there a mod out that enables you to be male and get disciple instead of handmaiden?

 

Yes, although I cannot confirm if it works or provide a link (it was found on PCGAMEMODs and the link died with that site).