Petra

I played it without any patches, and didn't encounter a single problem.

Judging by the thread Canderous and Atton are better than all other male characters in KOTORs by a large margin Nobody likes anybody else but them. Interesting.

It is only "better" because it was fully finished IMHO. KOTOR2 can be too weird and confusing, with all the cut contents.

What I disliked about KOTOR1 was how ridiculous it was. Just think: a young, inexperienced student of the Jedi Academy managed to become a brilliant strategist overnight and led people to war. That's impossible and sounds really stupid, his background is all wrong... The same about Malak, of course. And Bastila. How can a padawan realistically threaten a Sith Lord on his own ship? (as in the cutscene) KOTOR2 had some of it, too, but such slips were all connected to KOTOR1. Fans would cry if the Exile was not connected to Revan , so she had to be "a gerenal" in the same unrealistic way. What I liked most about KOTOR2 was that there were personal motives involved. Usually characters have pretty boring motives, it's either "save the world" or "ruin the world"... and nobody has anything personal, only two main motives to choose from! But in KOTOR2 you can't call Kreia "bad", she was something else entirely, with her weird idea about killing the Force. It was weird, but it was something else, neither good or bad. She didn't want to conquer or ruin the world. Sion was not truly "evil", too, he was a slave of the Dark Side because he wanted to live. Didn't want to conquer the world, too. The same with Nihilus, a slave of his hunger.... Didn't want to conquer the world. The Exile, too, wasn't exactly saving the world! Etc, etc.

There's just one thing that makes it sound wrong. The Exile was told about being hunted for being the last Jedi. But then she went in search of other surviving Jedi, who certainly weren't "dark"! So even if we assume that the Sith misjudged Bastila's alignment, there were still surviving members of the Jedi Order whom they couldn't misjudge... So either they were able to mask their presence, or... or I don't know what to think. Ability to mask your presence sounds wrong, though. Because if it was possible, then it means that everybody (!) knew how to do it, except such a powerful force-user and Sith-Lords-killer like the Exile

Don't reinstall just yet, first try to use your old videocard with your old drivers! My friend had problems with a few games crashing when he bought a new videocard, but with the old one they worked fine. Maybe you have the same problem. Try the old one with your new comp.

Ok, so Bastila ceased to be a Jedi or what? I mean, why those Sith Lords couldn't "feel" her through the Force? They should've known that she was alive. If they "felt" force-users through the Force so well that they could perfectly trace where the Exile was and attack, there couldn't be any problems with tracing Bastila, too! But nobody bothered with her, she wasn't even mentioned in that respect. And when she appeared in the game she mentioned no threats to herself either.

Using the same comp? Maybe reinstall XP, then...

How come it was so stressed that the Exile was "the last Jedi" and therefore chased by the Sith... if Bastila later made an appearance in the game?!

I think it was good, it was more realistic. You're a general with troubled past, you hide from people and from your past, and then what, you suddenly go about falling in love and kissing everybody? That's not serious... Even Revan realized this and left Bastila behind But somehing was missing, I agree. Perhaps they could introduce a member of family into the game to create some "love feeling", like a brother or a sister. They did it in Doom3 movie. It'd be stupid if the protagonist was saving a hot chick, no romances were in game, so he was saving his sister. And nothing felt missing.

Haha, thanx! I'm in good mood now, was in bad one just a minute ago

Hm, it's strange that everybody likes Atton. He seemed more like an idiot to me, or like somebody who pretends to be an idiot. You couldn't even know him well, he wasn't saying anything about himself. And the worst thing about him is that he'd probably stab you in the back any time. And probably he'd run away if somebody attacked you, just because he's too smart to waste his life helping you A rather untrustable man...

Seeing the topic about Bastila, I decided to make another one, but this time about a man. To choose the best man is more difficult, because you don't do it by how they look like For me that has to be Canderous, he was "a real man", so to speak. A man who could deal with anything, and wouldn't cry and complain like a little boy when somebody offended him. Malak could stand a little chance, but he was behaving like a fool most of the time, stupidly laughing and talking nonsense. It made him look ridiculous and funny. Darth Sion was rather interesting, his behaviour (if you played a female Exile) made him interesting. Not many people would ever decide that they should kill somebody to prevent "the bigger evil". It was an interesting idea. But he was complaining too much, I think, and proved to be weak in the end. What kind of man would willingly escape life. If he was stronger, he'd help the Exile to fight Kreia instead, just to take revenge if nothing else. Share your opinions! P.S. Revan is out. His personality wasn't clear, you could play him however you wanted and imagine him whatever you wanted him to be.

I'm so happy that Bioware isn't making KOTOR 3!!! I almost cried when I heard the "news"... I want to say that they'd probably make it as standard as KOTOR 1 was with its standard plot, villains, and good guys. And who needs a standard game after KOTOR 2... Obsidian, please! Bioware's KOTOR 1 was not bad, of course, but as they say "The best is the enemy of the good". Now I'll be disappointed in KOTOR series to see just a good game, and not best... I'll hope to the end that Obsidian will make another KOTOR.

Starwars, maybe you just don't like fighting or fighting the way it was implemented in KOTORs? I'm not a fan of Star Wars series at all, but these two games are so great that they're my favorite games now And fighting was the best part of both for me, it was really cool to be able to use "magic" and lightsabers, the way it all was implemented was perfect for me (unlike many other games). But it was not just what you fight with, it was how it was done that made fighting so enjoyable! As for being bored, there was only one thing I can complain about: the beginning of KOTOR2. I felt that the game lacked any action whatsoever, quests were interesting but it all felt more like a long introduction than the game, and I was dreading that the whole game would be like that.... but the game suddenly picked up pace when I went to the Czerka Base on Telos. After that, it was balanced, fighting mixed with various quests. Still I felt there was not enough of fighting in the game overall, it was especially clear on Malachor's surface. The Academy was great, though About the planets I can say I really liked all of them, but I'd like them all to be as big as Taris was. It had three levels to investigate, lots of quests, and all other planets from both games seem shallow after such a magnificent start. Think Korriban in KOTOR2, what an awfully small area, and you spend too little time there. All in all, we disagree almost on everything I'm not a fan of action in RPGs, but in KOTORs it was done in such a great way that I loved it.

Lucas said he drew the Force concept from Castaneda, in whose books the Force was called simply energy, power, or personal power (when utilized). There was an entity in his books called "the dark sea of awareness" that was a source of all power and life, it was alien to humanity and had its own agenda that couldn't be comprehended by us humans And if we continue drawing parallels, killing the force means killing a life: death in Castaneda's books happens when the energy of a sentient being disappears, going back into the dark sea of awareness where it came from.

That's true Anyway, the Exile could use a cop-out. There is a way to cut off people from the Force, the problem is that the Exile didn't learn to do it. Otherwise, Kreia could've been stripped away of her power and permitted to live. This way, I believe, Kreia would've been given a second chance to live a life without the Force. Maybe she'd finally come to peace with it. Otherwise it weakens her character, you're right... It wouldn't do if she was just persuaded by somebody else.

Not just you There should've been an option to convert her at least, or weaken her enough and then let her live. I mean, isn't it strange to kill your own teammate. Alright for DS play style perhaps, but you do get attached a bit to your teammates. Probably you were supposed to start hating Kreia after she jumped into her black robes, but it didn't happen to me, and I doubt that it happened to anyone else I believe that it should've been Atris at the end of the game. Sounds a bit unreal. There'd still be fighting with planets destroyed anyway. People are destructive, even in our world. Take away "the force" as means of planetary destruction, there's still technology in SW Universe that can do the same.

As I recall, Atton could die in the battle with Sion Interesting. Who'd fly the ship then? I only liked to play solo in the Academy, because it was finally some challange. Overall the game was easy, so it felt good to be alone there. Six people rushing you, that was exciting! But yes, I missed the companions, too. And it didn't help that the Acedemy was empty, I only glimpsed a couple of dining tables there. Even though on the map you could see "Beast pen" marked and many other interesting places that were supposed to be furnished. I guess what's done is done, the game will never be truly complete. So I hope for a sequel that wouldn't be rushed like KOTOR2, from Obsidian, not Bioware, since Obsidian has much more interesting ideas... Overall, nothing definite can be said about the ending, since it's tightly linked to why Revan travelled to the Unknown Regions, and there's nothing definite in the game about it. It just boils down to him finding some greater enemy, and the Exile wanting to help him fight that greater enemy. *shrug* I'd say that the game plot and the ending aren't connected, because the game was about Kreia wanting to destroy the Force. It had nothing to do with Revan's goals, but we suddenly get the ending about Revan.

Yes, I noticed how funny it was, too This is why I think that Kreia wanted to die... Besides, Sion said "She's willing to sacrifice herself for you". It matches. I think that the generator was the Exile's and Bao-Dur's idea, and it was needed to destroy the Trayus Academy. Kreia wouldn't want it destroyed. As for what she was doing, my best guess is that she wanted the Exile to win the duel to become stronger than her and to have better chances at destroying the force if she would want to do it. At least there was no option of converting the Exile to the dark side or joining Kreia in the dialogues, so I think Kreia didn't want the Exile to be converted, she only wanted to fight to death. As for what Kreia had to be stopped from, well, from being a Sith Lord, I guess... So if LS, it was assumed that the Exile would want to destroy a sith, and if DS, she'd destroy a master to become a master herself instead of apprentice. I think that it was supposed to look like she fell to the full dark side eventually, instead of being neutral. Betrayed the Exile. Although I agree, it isn't logical that she did it. She'd have better chances to talk the Exile into destroying the Force if she were her trusted teacher I took her everywhere with me It was logical that your teacher would watch you and comment As for lightsabers, you can just set her to Jedi Support instead. I found it nice to be the one fighting, while my companions did Lihgtning Storms, etc. What do you mean, how can you upgrade your personal crystal? I didn't know that it was upgradable... Kreia mentioned that she knows Atris without knowing her, because Atris "walks her path". I guess Atris was supposed to become Darth Traya eventually. Then the Exile would have a real reason to kill her (or save her), and Kreia would just remain neutral, pointing at stupidity of Jedi\Sith wars. Indeed, but Kreia's idea was that Sion would keep fighting you endlessly and would eventually wear you out and kill you. It makes sense. A friend told me that it should work if you're DS, but I didn't check yet. Need cheats for that. I find the tomb very nice anyway. It was simply interesting to see Malak in youth, to glimpse the guilt in the Exile's soul (she sent her outnumbered soldiers to die), and especially to be faced with choosing what's more important, Kreia or your companions. I honestly couldn't choose for a long time, too bad that you couldn't pass to the next door without killing Kreia. It was a precise prophesy, though, in the end of the game you couldn't spare her life either. I don't know why they showed you the future of darksiders Revan and the Exile fighting, maybe Obsidian were sure they'd be the ones to make KOTOR3 I hope they will be.

The forum refuses to post more than the allowed amount of quote blocks, so I had to make a few posts instead. From reading about cut content I gathered that they were supposed to play a bigger role at the end of the game. Kreia would be attacked by all of them at once, then Atton would fight Sion, T3\Goto\HK-47 would be concerned with the Mass-Shadow Generator. Not sure about others. As it is, I guess only Mira's part wasn't completely cut from the game, although who knows what she was supposed to do once she got to the Academy. I think that the Council considered the Exile attracting followers not to the Force, but to the dark side of it. It was stressed that they were scared of what they saw in the Exile. Perhaps they didn't believe that the Exile could act despite of it. Besides, the Exile's influence on companions was supposed to be anomally high. They'd do whatever she wants, would kill if she wanted them to, etc. Probably the Council considered it too much an anomaly, a manipulation of the will of others. I think it's a nice plot twist But it'd be nice if the Player wouldn't have to kill Kreia. I personally see no reason for that, especially if Player is DS. No reason other than Kreia simply wanting to have a duel to the death. I agree, I was suprised that the Exile was alone on Malachor's surface, and there was no inkling of what happened to others after crash-landing. Even more I was surprised that Bao-Dur was dead, according to the hologram of his remote. I think both of them were too easy. It always took only a few Master Flurry hits on Difficult setting to send Sion to replenish his health. Kreia had more vitality, but still too easy for a Sith Lord. Powerful magician should fight differently than stupidly standing on one spot, imho. E.g. Sion could will the ceiling to collapse over the Exile's head, that would be very impressive. The Exile would have to run away to avoid it. He could force the Exile to run away from that room and seal the door or something, since he didn't want the Exile to go past him (at least if you play a female Exile). Then he could chase the Exile through the whole Academy, doing many impressive magical things, like resurrecting all those Sith students that she killed before... There was much that could be done to make Sith Lords truly impressive. It's sad that the developers prefer short duels. Kreia set this up much earlier when she revived Hanharr, in order to kill Mira later. But I agree it makes little sense, since Mira wasn't so strong that Kreia couldn't have killed her on her own and needed Hanharr for that That bugged me, too. Can't you fly quickly past the beasts? I cleared them up as the Exile, so I'm not sure if there's no challenge at all. Maybe you had to fly and maneuver your way past them. Well, I didn't think that Goto was going to prevent anything, to be honest, up until I read about it in team Gizka's forums. He just said "we'll wait for the General's orders", it didn't even sound as if he wanted to prevent anything. You know, I'm unsure why it would even help. I mean, destruction was what caused Malachor V to become such a bad place, and destroying it once again would make it even worse, logically. But considering that the content about the Mass-Shadow Generator's purpose is missing, we can only guess.

And you're one of those who want to be cooller than others and influence the world, right? That's the difference between us. If the Force existed in reality, it would be simply the Force, something impersonal, that can be used for good or bad ends. People like you would consider it "power" for themselves and would be obsessed with it and how "great" and "powerful" it makes them be, with cool functions it has, and thus such people would be falling to the so-called darkside. You'll change later, it's very likely just maximalism and self-pride of youth I hope I didn't insult you. I know when people told me about maximalism I felt hurt, but later I had to agree.

It was the Exile. She saw a vision of herself beside Revan, though dark side features and black robe are not to suggest she was a Dark Jedi. Hm, I see. But it seems to suggest dark alignment in future, nevethless. Besides, I checked and it turned out that the Exile in the vision has dark alignment, too... I refuse to believe that the developers did it accidentally, it wouldmake no sense.

Can somebody please say who was that character who stood beside Revan in the Korriban's vision?

To me it sounds like Force obsession = Ego... Why would you be obsessed with magic power? You wouldn't, but if you want to influence others' lives as you desire, than maybe. Kreia should've wanted to destroy her own ego, if she was obsessed. Not the Force. But in the game she is bent of destroying the Force. I don't understand it. Period. Either Kreia was stupid, or (most likely) game developers meant her motives to be something else... I can't relate, to be honest. If Kreia acted out of her moral pain of losing the Force once, that's purely egotistic (=darkside in SW Universe), and she seemed like a character of another scope to me. She was portrayed as "wise" in the game, but she couldn't understand that it was herself who was causing her pain? Strange. You don't try to eliminate something if it caused you pain, thinking that then everybody else will be safe, too... Because you know that the reason is you. It's like some people who fell in love and it ended tragically, they're afraid of having a new relationship. But even they aren't creating a new Anti-Love movement on a global scale, they aren't psychos. "Ruthless extremism" - do you mean a conventional villain's behaviour, like Malak in KOTOR1 who'd kill for pleasure and stupidly laugh while uttering threatening nonsense? Yes, that was a breath of fresh air that Kreia was not such a villain. Even Sion and Nihilus looked decent, being just unfortunate victims of their vices. You seem to define evil by willingness to kill :\ I define it by causing trouble to others when you CAN avoid it. Malak was certainly an example of such evil, being a conventional villain. Others who you named were not. Nihilus couldn't avoid being what he was, and Sion openly said that he was "broken" to become what he was and the only way for him to turn away from it was death. Kreia seemed to be free in her choices, though. If she fell to the darkside at the end of the game, she was fully responsible for that. What I have a problem with is the game's definition of evil. In the game Kreia was dressed in black robes, had black eyes on Malachor, that must mean that she became evil again, whether you and I agree with it or not. I was asking about the Exile Anything that destroys the whole world is evil for the whole world, so that must be evil... On what matter, a game? Indeed, it's difficult sometimes to understand what the game says. Because it's so removed from life. Sci-fi setting helps, since it could exist in future. Things like Star Forge exploding in space certainly don't help realism, because in real life fire can't burn in space (even if it looks cool in a game). The same with these "moral" things... I console myself with thinking that Jedi idea is a rip-off Eastern philosophy in a Western interpretation, this alikeness makes it more or less realistic, even if getting "power" is too easy and quick to be realistic. Sith idea is outright ridiculous, though: such people couldn't exist, there's no evil power or something that could cause "a wound" in the Force, or taint a place or person. It's childish and removed from life. The most awful examples are the whole idea of "darkside" which doesn't exist, or of how Revan won the war being so young and inexperienced... In real life he wouldn't be able to assemble an army, noone would care to listen to a youngster with no political\financial power, without military education and military feats. Revan was nobody and wasn't capable of winning a war or becoming a military leader. That wasn't intended as bashing the game, KOTOR is great as entertainment. What I want to say is that it's so removed from reality and so different when it comes to morality that you can't really judge it in realistic terms. And thus there's no "true understanding" you speak of, it simply isn't possible. So what I'm trying to do here is understand what was the game creators' understanding of what their characters did and why. And what the game would be like as they intended it to be, if they didn't rush it. I mean, really, after the Onderon War the game story simply fails, it's incomprehensible and most of it is missing. Even surroudings suffered: the whole Trayus Academy is EMPTY. They haven't nearly finished designing it when the game was released, imho.