Bioware working on Jade Empire 2?

[Llyranor]

Zoma is absolutely right, but that's just secondary to the game being mediocre on its own, even disregarding the setting.

[SteveThaiBinh]

Setting matters (though gameplay matters too). Compare Mulan with Miyazaki's Spirited Away - both have their own interpretation of Chinese and Japanese cultures respectively, but Mulan was a noticeable Westernisation/dumbing down. Spirited Away was just a different take on it, but it found a market and a positive response in the West, I believe. Bioware could yet redeem themselves with JE2, if they could get themselves some different writers, maybe?

[Zoma]

If they want to make a good Asian setting and yet easily embraced in the West to the point it can be declared as a classic, Bioware ought to look at Avatar: The Last Airbender's footsteps. Its obviously a westernised Asian setting yet it is successful. Perhaps it did not attempt to pretend its ancient China like Bioware did, instead taking an inspired Asian setting and influences from it makes it so successful.

 

Avatar: The Last Airbender

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avatar:_The_Last_Airbender

 

Just like Steve said, Bioware needs much more capable writers to redeem themselves for JE2.

Edited January 1, 2008 by Zoma

[Azure79]

Zoma, you are correct.

 

When I heard first heard about Jade Empire, I visualized something very similar to the settings in Louis Cha's novels. I've read most of his books, (translated into Korean) and right now I am happily reading the 3rd edition of Heaven Sword and Dragon Saber, where he makes little revisions here and there.

 

I know that some of his books have been translated into English, though I've never seen a copy. Though I have a suspicion that some things in his books translated into English will sound a bit funny, though it sounds totally natural in Chinese.

[Zoma]

Yep Azure. Translated into English does sound odd at places.

 

Though check out the Smiling Proud Wanderer(State of Divinity) English translation made by the fans and compare it yourself.

 

http://wuxiapedia.com/novels/jin_yong/smiling_proud_wanderer

[Volourn]

"BioWare has been inching that way for years, and with Mass Effect has totally enscounced itself as a console developer with PC as a distant afterthought... if at all."

 

Di, did Hades take your membership? You sound just like him. Anyways, BIO hasn't abandoned the PC. That's silly talk. If they had, JE would never had been ported, they wouldn't have spent years supporting NWN crap, and they wouldn't be working hard on DA. I doubt DA is vapourware unless you honestly believe BIO would pay someone like Gaider to play tiddlywinks. L0L

 

 

On to JE2. JE was awesome. I'm sure JE2 will be. Can't be worse than the overrated KOTOR, anyways. HA!

 

 

P.S. JE's morality Open Palm/Closed Fist system was not like KOTOR's Light/Dark system though they share similarities. JE's was way better, too.

[Sand]

I absolutely loved Jade Empire, much to my own surprised. I am disappointed... but not totally surprised... that if this rumor is true, Jade Empire 2 will be XBox only. BioWare has been inching that way for years, and with Mass Effect has totally enscounced itself as a console developer with PC as a distant afterthought... if at all.

 

The one RPG for the PC that BioWare has been working on for what, five years now?, is Dragon Age... which has neither a publisher or a release estimate. I've seen too many wonderful games on the cusp of completion totally shelved over the years, and when I read that EA had bought Bio out, my first thought was that it sealed the last nail in Dragon Age's coffin. Hope I'm wrong. That happened once...

I don't think that Dragon Age will be canceled. In fact I think that EA will be Dragon Age's publisher. Lets also not forget about Bioware's MMO that will also be on the PC.

Edited January 1, 2008 by Sand

[Pidesco]

Regardless of their touted evilness, EA has always supported the PC fairly well, so I don't see any reason for them to cancel Dragon Age. If DA does fail to see the light of day, it will be despite EA, not because of EA.

[~Di]

"BioWare has been inching that way for years, and with Mass Effect has totally enscounced itself as a console developer with PC as a distant afterthought... if at all."

 

Di, did Hades take your membership? You sound just like him. Anyways, BIO hasn't abandoned the PC. That's silly talk. If they had, JE would never had been ported, they wouldn't have spent years supporting NWN crap, and they wouldn't be working hard on DA. I doubt DA is vapourware unless you honestly believe BIO would pay someone like Gaider to play tiddlywinks. L0L

 

I've seen more than one game shelved after years of development... and so have you. Supporting one's old games is hardly evidence of what form their new games will take, which should be obvious. As of now, DA is the only PC game on Bio's schedule (I don't count the MMO, of course). The last PC games BioWare developed were NWN1 and KOTOR, both of which are many years old... and of course, KOTOR was concurrently released on XBox as well. Of Bio's latest offerings, Jade Empire was console, ported to PC a year after its XBox release, Mass Effect, which is an XBox exclusive and according to BioWare there are no plans to ever port it to PC, and on the drawing board is a Sonic role playing game for the Nintendo DS. The article that started this thread states that its information states that Jade Empire 2 will be an XBox exclusive as well. I'd say that information taken in total pretty much enscounces Bioware as fairly serious console developer.

 

I'm not happy about that since BioWare is still my favorite developer, but facts are facts.

 

Jade Empire was a terrific game, and if by some chance JE2 ends up on the shelves with a PC version, I'll snap it up in a heartbeat. I don't know squat about the accuracy of Chinese history as portreyed in the game, nor do I particularly care. It was delightful fun to play. That's enough for me!

[Volourn]

"I've seen more than one game shelved after years of development... and so have you."

 

True; but BIO hasn't a company whp did this. I look at their past history. Can't paint BIO with the same brush of other failed companies.

 

 

 

"I don't know squat about the accuracy of Chinese history as portreyed in the game, nor do I particularly care."

 

100% agreed. Espicially since JE was never gonna be a historical retelling of China. It *is* a fantasy game, afterall.

[Kaftan Barlast]

It *is* a fantasy game, afterall.

 

 

Is not. You cant keep putting every game with an imaginary setting into the fantasy genre.

[Jora]

Ehh, of course you can. Especially if it has supernatural elements and JE has those in spades.

[Pop]

JE is obviously fantasy, and not even of the nitpick-y semantic sort. The only difference between JE and Tolkien or D&D is the base of myth and folklore from which it's designed. Replace elves and dwarves with spirits and demons, replace magic spells with chi martial styles. It's all functionally the same. Anybody who claims otherwise is either daft or intentionally trying to mislead.

 

On that note, JE was easily the least sketched-out world Bioware has ever placed a game in, not just because it was a new IP, indeed, probably because it was a new IP. There were things (particularly geography and history) that seemed intentionally vague. That always annoyed me.

[Tigranes]

Yes, JE is fantasy. And it would indeed be nice to have things more sketched out beyond things like "Oh there's a Sky God Emperor with Thunderbolts of Fire".

[Kaftan Barlast]

JE is obviously fantasy, and not even of the nitpick-y semantic sort. The only difference between JE and Tolkien or D&D is the base of myth and folklore from which it's designed. Replace elves and dwarves with spirits and demons, replace magic spells with chi martial styles. It's all functionally the same. Anybody who claims otherwise is either daft or intentionally trying to mislead.

 

 

But then you could compare Klingons to urukhai, Romulans to Drow and call Star Trek fantasy aswell. Or why not call a hamburger a sunday steak, hey it's all just meat, am I right?

 

 

Jade Empire doesnt really have a clear defined genre. It's an action/beat 'em up/RPG/adventure set in a setting that combines westernified wuxia with biowareism. It sure as *** isnt a fantasy game. Its clear due to the very noticeable lack of dungeons, orcs, chainmail-bikinis, pseudo-medievalism, bearded wizards with cone-hats, elves of adubious sexual orientation and everything else a game must include to get to call itself fantasy.

[Tigranes]

That's exactly the point I was making in another thread, but never you mind.

 

Alright, alright, I guess we can all get caught up in what exactly is Fantasy according to Dr. Dudakebabra of Oxford University and whatever, but I think the relevant point regarding JE is that a) its adoption of the East Asian mythical setting has been superficial, by that meaning adopting the graphical look and names and so forth but not underlying differences or uniqueness in philosophy or design or whatever; b) and therefore, the fantasy-or-not-or-whatever world of JE at first appearance looks different, but this is very quickly exposed to show a decidedly mediocre and tedious setting that is hardly different from your run-of-the-mill high fantasy RPG. It may or may not be classified as fantasy, but I would argue that the differences were only superficial and the game played and the setting existed much in the same way as a high fantasy world would.

[Pop]

Exactly. It wasn't different enough and it suffered for it.

Edited January 2, 2008 by Pop

[Volourn]

Nah. It didn't need to be different. It needed to be good. Which it was.

[Kaftan Barlast]

JE2 really cant fail as long as we get kungfu heroes in purple hotpants* and a continued lack of "the ancient race who created everything"

 

 

 

 

 

 

* on both men and women this time around

[SteveThaiBinh]

... a continued lack of "the ancient race who created everything"

On this at least, I think we can all agree.

[Tigranes]

Heh. I wouldn't bet on it, they might well come up with The Ancient Empire of Qing* with their ancient yet advanced technologies and long-forgotten martial art styles. And ghosts of dead warriors bound by honour or whatnot.

 

 

 

 

*Or Ming, Han, Woloongo or Badoom-Badoom Kaduch.

[Blarghagh]

I wouldn't mind another romp through that universe. I hope they keep the combat system. I found it much more fun than the pointing and clicking of most of their games.

Yeah, they totally removed the "pointing" portion.

 

That's not really what I meant. I just don't like the "pick attack" "issue attack" system. I prefer "twitch" combat because I don't have to sit still waiting for my character to finish hitting the opponent.

[Morgoth]

I hope for JE2, Bio would shift a bit away from fantasy and go a little more towards historical credibility. But since we're talking about Bio here....nahhh.

[Volourn]

'Historical credibility'? Give me a break. It's a fantasy game dealing with demons, gods, and magic. L0L

 

And, thankfully enough, too. I don't need a history lesson from a game. That's what books are for.

 

JE was never meant to be historically accurate in terms of Ancient China just like the FR - contrary to popular belief - aren't meant to be a faithful creation of the real historical Dark Ages. If that's the experience you want, don't buy the game. Duh.

[Morgoth]

'Historical credibility'? Give me a break. It's a fantasy game dealing with demons, gods, and magic. L0L

 

And, thankfully enough, too. I don't need a history lesson from a game. That's what books are for.

 

JE was never meant to be historically accurate in terms of Ancient China just like the FR - contrary to popular belief - aren't meant to be a faithful creation of the real historical Dark Ages. If that's the experience you want, don't buy the game. Duh.

I didn't say re-creation of historical facts and accuracy. I want them shifting away a bit from the childish demons and Gnomes and Yuiyahh WuXu00R whatever nonsense, and develop the world and society a bit better, a bit more directed towards adults. Learning old China's history and sociology there can be tremendously helpful. But yeah, it's Bioware. Duh.

Edited January 2, 2008 by Morgoth