Kaftan Barlast Posted December 26, 2007 Share Posted December 26, 2007 I'm not necessary a big fan about their latest games though (technically impressive, artistically directed towards 12 year old kids).I hope they'll someday do something completely off the top. If its Gears of War you're talking about Ill have to bring teh pain. Its just too good for words in every aspect. (I know almost all the dialogue by heart) Let me guess, the dialogue goes like this "I'm Marcus Fenix and I have a big **** and now attack GO GO GO Marines Wah whahahaha take this bastard down Yessir Graaahhhhh!!!!1111@?&$!! DISCLAIMER: Do not take what I write seriously unless it is clearly and in no uncertain terms, declared by me to be meant in a serious and non-humoristic manner. If there is no clear indication, asume the post is written in jest. This notification is meant very seriously and its purpouse is to avoid misunderstandings and the consequences thereof. Furthermore; I can not be held accountable for anything I write on these forums since the idea of taking serious responsability for my unserious actions, is an oxymoron in itself. Important: as the following sentence contains many naughty words I warn you not to read it under any circumstances; botty, knickers, wee, erogenous zone, psychiatrist, clitoris, stockings, bosom, poetry reading, dentist, fellatio and the department of agriculture. "I suppose outright stupidity and complete lack of taste could also be considered points of view. " Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkan Posted December 26, 2007 Author Share Posted December 26, 2007 Oh btw I played the Beta demo of UT3 and it ran horribly choppy... Does the full version run better? It runs flawlessly on my new laptop. "Of course the people don't want war. But after all, it's the leaders of the country who determine the policy, and it's always a simple matter to drag the people along whether it's a democracy, a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism, and exposing the country to greater danger." - Herman Goering at the Nuremberg trials "I have also been slowly coming to the realisation that knowledge and happiness are not necessarily coincident, and quite often mutually exclusive" - meta Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkan Posted December 26, 2007 Author Share Posted December 26, 2007 I'm not necessary a big fan about their latest games though (technically impressive, artistically directed towards 12 year old kids).I hope they'll someday do something completely off the top. If its Gears of War you're talking about Ill have to bring teh pain. Its just too good for words in every aspect. (I know almost all the dialogue by heart) Let me guess, the dialogue goes like this "I'm Marcus Fenix and I have a big **** and now attack GO GO GO Marines Wah whahahaha take this bastard down Yessir Graaahhhhh!!!!1111@?&$!! "Of course the people don't want war. But after all, it's the leaders of the country who determine the policy, and it's always a simple matter to drag the people along whether it's a democracy, a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism, and exposing the country to greater danger." - Herman Goering at the Nuremberg trials "I have also been slowly coming to the realisation that knowledge and happiness are not necessarily coincident, and quite often mutually exclusive" - meta Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Llyranor Posted December 26, 2007 Share Posted December 26, 2007 I like Gears of War and all (fantastic co-op campaign), but you don't see me defending the story. Then again, the story doesn't need defending. If you're going to criticize bad storytelling, do it for games that have tons of mediocre writing and proclaim to have a good story, like Oblivion. (Approved by Fio, so feel free to use it) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tale Posted December 26, 2007 Share Posted December 26, 2007 (edited) Gears of War is tons of fun for their cover system. I doubt it would have received any significant attention if it had lacked it. Actually, the co-op probably contributed quite a bit to it as well. Edited December 26, 2007 by Tale "Show me a man who "plays fair" and I'll show you a very talented cheater." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yoomazir Posted December 26, 2007 Share Posted December 26, 2007 I don't know,I played and loved a lot of Epic games (especially Unreal Championship 2,great story) but I didn't like neither GoW or UT3. First reason:I HATE the character design,humans looks like guys on steroids and got elephant legs.For GoW I suppose they fit in,but for UT? please... Second reason: UT3 is really really really way behind his predecessors,where is the diversity? where are half of the races? where are the colors? where are the maps? and let's not even talk about how crap the interface is. No wonder why UT3 bombed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
@\NightandtheShape/@ Posted December 26, 2007 Share Posted December 26, 2007 I'm not necessary a big fan about their latest games though (technically impressive, artistically directed towards 12 year old kids).I hope they'll someday do something completely off the top. If its Gears of War you're talking about Ill have to bring teh pain. Its just too good for words in every aspect. (I know almost all the dialogue by heart) Interesting... GoW is one of the most average games I've ever played... It was simple, ok. I don't think I could bring myself to play it again. The once was enough. "I'm a programmer at a games company... REET GOOD!" - Me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shryke Posted December 26, 2007 Share Posted December 26, 2007 my flatmate seems to love the demo i only grabbed it in the first place to test out my new video card and drivers and stuff really not my sorta thing, but i do like what they've done with the Scorpion when your mind works against you - fight back with substance abuse! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tale Posted December 26, 2007 Share Posted December 26, 2007 Interesting... GoW is one of the most average games I've ever played... It was simple, ok. I don't think I could bring myself to play it again. The once was enough. Honestly, is there a game or engine out there you currently like? "Show me a man who "plays fair" and I'll show you a very talented cheater." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaftan Barlast Posted December 26, 2007 Share Posted December 26, 2007 There are games with better gun feeling, like Crysis f.ex, but GoW is just such an awesomely gritty action experience. Huh...that guy from Gears looks amazingly similar to that guy from UT3 They're both by Kevin Lanning. And it looks alot like a "kit-bash" from GoW's Baird DISCLAIMER: Do not take what I write seriously unless it is clearly and in no uncertain terms, declared by me to be meant in a serious and non-humoristic manner. If there is no clear indication, asume the post is written in jest. This notification is meant very seriously and its purpouse is to avoid misunderstandings and the consequences thereof. Furthermore; I can not be held accountable for anything I write on these forums since the idea of taking serious responsability for my unserious actions, is an oxymoron in itself. Important: as the following sentence contains many naughty words I warn you not to read it under any circumstances; botty, knickers, wee, erogenous zone, psychiatrist, clitoris, stockings, bosom, poetry reading, dentist, fellatio and the department of agriculture. "I suppose outright stupidity and complete lack of taste could also be considered points of view. " Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
@\NightandtheShape/@ Posted December 27, 2007 Share Posted December 27, 2007 (edited) Interesting... GoW is one of the most average games I've ever played... It was simple, ok. I don't think I could bring myself to play it again. The once was enough. Honestly, is there a game or engine out there you currently like? Oh yeah pleanty, I think the UE 3 engine is amazing, I just didn't rate GoW as highly as most, that doesn't mean the engine ain't pukka. If Obsidian could get the Badger Engine running nicely there would be another engine which is lovely. Id tech stuff is also nice. That said I'm particularly fond of some source engine stuff like DM, Portal, and TF2 but that doesn't make the engine any good, the engine is fairly buggy from my experience, the shadows are also particularly awful. The Badger Engine has nice lighting and shadowing. Good Engine != Good Game. Good Games != Good Engine. But we always like to see Good Engines && Good Games. Edit: GoW looks amazing and has an awesome visual atmosphere, but it still plays like an average game. Edited December 27, 2007 by @\NightandtheShape/@ "I'm a programmer at a games company... REET GOOD!" - Me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morgoth Posted December 27, 2007 Share Posted December 27, 2007 That said I'm particularly fond of some source engine stuff like DM, Portal, and TF2 but that doesn't make the engine any good, the engine is fairly buggy from my experience, the shadows are also particularly awful. The Badger Engine has nice lighting and shadowing. What is so awful about the shadows? I never had any problems with it in either DM or HL2. Rain makes everything better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaftan Barlast Posted December 27, 2007 Share Posted December 27, 2007 Source also have very limited capability to display specularity, which makes shaders and textures look dull and flat. DISCLAIMER: Do not take what I write seriously unless it is clearly and in no uncertain terms, declared by me to be meant in a serious and non-humoristic manner. If there is no clear indication, asume the post is written in jest. This notification is meant very seriously and its purpouse is to avoid misunderstandings and the consequences thereof. Furthermore; I can not be held accountable for anything I write on these forums since the idea of taking serious responsability for my unserious actions, is an oxymoron in itself. Important: as the following sentence contains many naughty words I warn you not to read it under any circumstances; botty, knickers, wee, erogenous zone, psychiatrist, clitoris, stockings, bosom, poetry reading, dentist, fellatio and the department of agriculture. "I suppose outright stupidity and complete lack of taste could also be considered points of view. " Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morgoth Posted December 27, 2007 Share Posted December 27, 2007 (edited) Source also have very limited capability to display specularity, which makes shaders and textures look dull and flat. "Dull and flat" like these cave walls huh? I think deciding how specularity is used is an artistic choice rather than a restriction of the engine. Maybe Valve just didn't want it to look like Gears or Small Soldiers plastic toys? Edited December 27, 2007 by Morgoth Rain makes everything better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaftan Barlast Posted December 27, 2007 Share Posted December 27, 2007 That was a special shader they wrote specifcily for that sequence in Ep2, there was nothing similar up to that point. And as far as I know, it doesnt support specular maps for normal mesh objects such as characters or buildings. That's limited ability. this screenshot http://img124.imageshack.us/img124/1681/sc...ot178345cn2.jpg is more representative of Source's characteristic matte/flat look. DISCLAIMER: Do not take what I write seriously unless it is clearly and in no uncertain terms, declared by me to be meant in a serious and non-humoristic manner. If there is no clear indication, asume the post is written in jest. This notification is meant very seriously and its purpouse is to avoid misunderstandings and the consequences thereof. Furthermore; I can not be held accountable for anything I write on these forums since the idea of taking serious responsability for my unserious actions, is an oxymoron in itself. Important: as the following sentence contains many naughty words I warn you not to read it under any circumstances; botty, knickers, wee, erogenous zone, psychiatrist, clitoris, stockings, bosom, poetry reading, dentist, fellatio and the department of agriculture. "I suppose outright stupidity and complete lack of taste could also be considered points of view. " Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kissamies Posted December 27, 2007 Share Posted December 27, 2007 Hmm, UT3... that's a somewhat complicated case for me. The demo was a horrible blurfest for my somewhat aged machine, but I hear the final game is somewhat better optimized. Anyways, I'm not at least bit interested in another bazooka tag, no matter how good it looks. However, there is a chance that there will be a new Air Buccaneers mod for it. If that happens, I will be all over the game and upgrade my hardware for it if necessary. It has always been the mods that make these games for me. This time I won't buy the game before I know there will be good mods, though. Source engine has been somewhat dissapointing in that regard. Distraction is still not out. SODOFF Steam group. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
@\NightandtheShape/@ Posted December 27, 2007 Share Posted December 27, 2007 Source also have very limited capability to display specularity, which makes shaders and textures look dull and flat. What a bizzare thing to do with a game engine! Though I always figured such materials were artistically decided, within 3DS Max, or XSI. With appropriate shaders as .fx files being applied in the 3D editing program and the engine, with material data being stored within the model file itself, this usually contains texture information as well. Though there are realistically loads of techniques for dealing with this problem in an engine, linking all the information togeather within a single file seems to be a common solution. Personally I dislike that approch, it requires alot of data to be associated during the mesh loading phase, which usually links itself with the material loading and texture loading all in one fell swoop. So loading a mesh becomes a drawn out process of loading it's attached resources, naturally you could code round such an issue, but I question the point of bothering with that, it seems more intuitive to dealing with each element purely as an independant entity, thusly you only load what you need when you need it and as a result can deal with any potential need to reload data quickly, and your initial loading can be quicker as materials may be re-used without the need to reload the same data over and over, that goes for textures, shaders, and material settings. Such issues are most likely dealt with, but meh, I'm shocked at the idea there is no control over general specularity of objects, this could be a perf thing. As for what's wrong with source engines shadows, they often demonstrate artifacts. "I'm a programmer at a games company... REET GOOD!" - Me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morgoth Posted December 27, 2007 Share Posted December 27, 2007 (edited) Such issues are most likely dealt with, but meh, I'm shocked at the idea there is no control over general specularity of objects, this could be a perf thing. Specularity intensity can be globally changed within a material template via a flag, or a simple variable in the shader script. Textures (Diffuse, Normal, Specular) are separately stored and linked within the material, among other properties like collision sound, footstep sound, mass, SpriteFX stuff etc. I don't know what you mean about being "shocked" not having any control over such things. Certainly artists and level designer could go crazy about how many lights should occlude with these materials, but the more you have, the more fill-rate is wasted..and that's the point where you need to make trade offs. I figure Valve didn't want to push the rendering features too far lest jeopardizing a steady framerate and other gameplay-related systems. In the end Valve decided the right thing. The HL2 games rock, people love it, it sells like hot cakes even if it doesn't look as pretty as Gears. So what? As for what's wrong with source engines shadows, they often demonstrate artifacts. Eh? Update your video card drivers. Lawl. I personally thought the soft shadows in HL2 look perfectly fine. Not as exaggerated and stylized like Doom3 or FEAR, but that was never the intention. Edited December 27, 2007 by Morgoth Rain makes everything better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
@\NightandtheShape/@ Posted December 28, 2007 Share Posted December 28, 2007 Specularity intensity can be globally changed within a material template via a flag, or a simple variable in the shader script. I have written scripting languages for shader based systems from the parser up, I'm very aware of how they work. Textures (Diffuse, Normal, Specular) are separately stored and linked within the material, among other properties like collision sound, footstep sound, mass, SpriteFX stuff etc. I don't know what you mean about being "shocked" not having any control over such things. That depends upon the format. I wouldn't claim any expertise in regards to Valves source engine file formats and the way that they link everything togeather. Game engines should hand power to a designer, not straight jacket them into having to you predefined settings, that's the only thing that shocks me, the idea that predefined setting are a must. Certainly artists and level designer could go crazy about how many lights should occlude with these materials, but the more you have, the more fill-rate is wasted..and that's the point where you need to make trade offs. They could, but why would they! A designer isn't an ignorant muppet afterall. I figure Valve didn't want to push the rendering features too far lest jeopardizing a steady framerate and other gameplay-related systems. In the end Valve decided the right thing. The HL2 games rock, people love it, it sells like hot cakes even if it doesn't look as pretty as Gears. So what? I'm just saying that such restricted render features in a modern engine seems a mite bit retarded to me. HL2 is ok, it's nothing major, it isn't that good, the general look isn't all that impressive to me. People love lots of things, that are bad for them, does that mean that whatever it is that they love is inherantly good underneath as a result? Source engine games do tend to be of a fairly high quality, but I don't personally attribute that to the engine par say. Source is here to stay, it's been used to create many popular games, but that doesn't mean there aren't any better engine options. Eh? Update your video card drivers. Lawl. Do you really believe I haven't already done that? I personally thought the soft shadows in HL2 look perfectly fine. Not as exaggerated and stylized like Doom3 or FEAR, but that was never the intention. The ack horrid shadows are the one thing which breaks any immersion in HL2 for me. And I can't help but say it, Carmack was right on the money choosing shadow volumes for Doom 3. Real time shadows are a particularly difficult thing to create well in an engine, HL2 to me has one of the worst implementations I've seen. "I'm a programmer at a games company... REET GOOD!" - Me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morgoth Posted December 28, 2007 Share Posted December 28, 2007 The ack horrid shadows are the one thing which breaks any immersion in HL2 for me. Take it easy. Real time shadows are a particularly difficult thing to create well in an engine, HL2 to me has one of the worst implementations I've seen. Have you actually coding experience with the Source engine? Rain makes everything better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
@\NightandtheShape/@ Posted December 28, 2007 Share Posted December 28, 2007 Real time shadows are a particularly difficult thing to create well in an engine, HL2 to me has one of the worst implementations I've seen. Have you actually coding experience with the Source engine? Pretty certain I already said I hadn't, to clarify I'm not speaking of the code implementation (The code is probably fairly slick), just the end result doesn't appeal to me, that and the fact occasionally the shadows are cast on surfaces that they shouldn't be. I am speaking in regards to the generic HL2 source implementation, Ep1 + 2 use a different version of the engine, don't they? Source engine is ike marmite, you love it or hate it. I don't like it. "I'm a programmer at a games company... REET GOOD!" - Me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morgoth Posted December 28, 2007 Share Posted December 28, 2007 Nice way to contradict yourself. Rain makes everything better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
@\NightandtheShape/@ Posted December 28, 2007 Share Posted December 28, 2007 Nice way to contradict yourself. And how exactly do you think I have done that? By basically saying I find source to be a second rate engine at the side of UE 3.0 and Id Tech? Even going so far to acknowledge that people may infact LIKE the engines visual results even though I don't, by saying that a good or bad engine doesn't particularly dictate that a game made with it is good or bad? Morgoth, were you born arguementative? or is it just that you're unable to accept opinions outside of your own realm of existence? "I'm a programmer at a games company... REET GOOD!" - Me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morgoth Posted December 28, 2007 Share Posted December 28, 2007 Morgoth, were you born arguementative? or is it just that you're unable to accept opinions outside of your own realm of existence? Now now, don't start with insults. You pressed "[...]HL2 to me has one of the worst implementations I've seen." Then I simply asked "Have you actually coding experience with the Source engine?" You: "Pretty certain I already said I hadn't, to clarify I'm not speaking of the code implementation (The code is probably fairly slick)[...]" You're saying it has the worst implementation, yet you claim you never actually worked with it. Uh-huh. Rain makes everything better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
@\NightandtheShape/@ Posted December 28, 2007 Share Posted December 28, 2007 Morgoth, were you born arguementative? or is it just that you're unable to accept opinions outside of your own realm of existence? Now now, don't start with insults. You pressed "[...]HL2 to me has one of the worst implementations I've seen." Then I simply asked "Have you actually coding experience with the Source engine?" You: "Pretty certain I already said I hadn't, to clarify I'm not speaking of the code implementation (The code is probably fairly slick)[...]" You're saying it has the worst implementation, yet you claim you never actually worked with it. Uh-huh. I tried to for clarity. What I am trying to get across and indeed may have made a bad job of it is, that the result of the implementation isn't very good, the implementation itself may be very slick as a piece of code but the result looks rather avaerage at the best of times, at the worst it seems like a total hack. It may be fast clever intuitive in its implementation, but the result of the implementation is still fairly poor. That was my point, I'm sorry for any confusion on that. "I'm a programmer at a games company... REET GOOD!" - Me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.jpg.ce846aae50e732dc4985eb712252381f.jpg)
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now