Duke Nukem Forever

[Moatilliatta]

The first two games were platform games and the third game had a notably good level design and atmosphere, so chanting "doom clone" is rather strange especially because the universe in which the game is set is notably different and only the basic design is the same.

"Doom clone" is an old term used for just about any FPS game at all. It is an outdated term, however it is appropriate because at the time Duke Nukem 3D was released the term was still used and Duke Nukem as a design is just as dated as the term.

I know what a "Doom Clone" is, I was just pointing out how strange the term is as there isn't anything of it that is an actual clone, it might be appropriate as hell from a game history perspective but that doesn't change the fact that DN3D was only similar to DOOM along vague basic lines. Also you can't deny that you used "Doom Clone" as a way to denounce the game.

About the for their time stuff: well what games aren't dated by now except the ones that have been recently realesed? Would you behead me just for hoping that the new DN game is as good as the first three?

Nice attempt at making yourself a martyr. Nobody's talking beheading. However if you start getting excited over Pong 2, we should rightly have you checked out by a professional. The game simply does not hold up without nostalgia.

You might not believe me but that wasn't actually my intent I was just commenting on your original post where you wanted me hospitalized. Anyway, you can't compare being excited about pong to being excited about DNF because pong wasn't a very good game and it's only achievement were being the first (was it even first?). Duke Nukem 3D was fun because it mixed the simple elements of a traditional FPS with actually good level design and a fun atmosphere. Why is it that I should be carted off to the hospital for liking good level design and a fun atmosphere and being excited about a game that promises something along those lines?

 

To summarise: I'm excited by DNF because the three first DN games were notably fun for me, and not just because of boobies or it being a "Doom Clone". If you can't accept that then I'm not sure what to say.

 

I'm kinda disappointed with the new teaser, I really expected a bit more fleshy content.

I was going to reply to this and then I noticed that you said fleshy content. I'm not disappointed though, I will be disappointed if there is a lack of fleshy content in the actual game... if there ever will be an actual game.

Edited December 19, 2007 by Moatilliatta

[Tale]

To summarise: I'm excited by DNF because the three first DN games were notably fun for me, and not just because of boobies or it being a "Doom Clone". If you can't accept that then I'm not sure what to say.

In other words "because of nostalgia."

[Nick_i_am]

Man, someone's bitter and twisted.

[Tale]

Now to be positive, I can see one way it could work. If everything about the setting is entirely serious with the exception of Duke himself. That's kind of how it worked for Ash.

[Nick_i_am]

You're right, Ash was awsome, but if your real problem with Duke Nukem is with the setting then that runs outside of the quality of the actual games or the laughable 'lets keep our stocks afloat' vaporware of DNF.

[Tale]

I've never had problem with the quality of the games. My contention is that the B-movie humor of Duke will easily show through as trying too hard to be funny with modern game design. They'll inherently be forced to provide more context to the adventure than in the previous games, which automatically means that facet of it will gain more prominence.

 

If they apply Duke Nukem's B-movie style to the entirety of the setting, it will invariably end up with brain cells dying for every member of the audience. Whereas if they set up the setting so that it's all fairly serious, but Duke comes in and provides the comic relief, they could pull it off.

 

All I ask is that when Duke Nukem gives off one of his atrocious one liners, someone in-game tells him to shut the hell up.

Edited December 19, 2007 by Tale

[Meshugger]

No, I mean that some people actually seem interested in buying the game. Who are these people? Why aren't they hospitalized?

Because the three first Duke Nukem games were beyond awesome?

Or are you referring to those strange people who have been on the 3DRelams DNF forum for years without any news on the game still being in developement?

No, I'm referring to people who are no longer teenagers aching to see boobies and excited by any "Doom clone" that comes to market. They might have been awesome for their time, but that time is long past.

 

I am not denying the nostalgia factor, but there's a whole new generation of kiddies out there craving for semi-nudity and bad one-liners. Crude and tacky humor expand through generations and ages.

 

When talking about gameplay, we simply don't know.

[Meshugger]

All I ask is that when Duke Nukem gives off one of his atrocious one liners, someone in-game tells him to shut the hell up.

 

That would be completely dishonest to the setting that Duke Nukem represents. Like George Lucas did to the Greedo and Han Solo. Unless the guy saying it is a comic relief by itself.

[Tale]

there's a whole new generation of kiddies out there craving for semi-nudity and bad one-liners.

This is part of what I have to contest. Not every generation is like the one that came before. Cheese is dying, if not already dead as a valid form of commercial humor. It'd be like releasing a Michael Jackson album to kids who grew up on Linkin Park. Sure, there was that Blood on the Dance Floor album, but I don't think that's what those kids are looking for. And music hasn't even progressed half as much in that time as gaming has in the past 10 years.

 

All I ask is that when Duke Nukem gives off one of his atrocious one liners, someone in-game tells him to shut the hell up.

 

That would be completely dishonest to the setting that Duke Nukem represents.

I agree.

Edited December 19, 2007 by Tale

[Meshugger]

there's a whole new generation of kiddies out there craving for semi-nudity and bad one-liners.

This is part of what I have to contest. Not every generation is like the one that came before. Cheese is dying, if not already dead as a valid form of commercial humor. It'd be like releasing a Michael Jackson album to kids who grew up on Linkin Park. Sure, there was that Blood on the Dance Floor album, but I don't think that's what those kids are looking for. And music hasn't even progressed half as much in that time as gaming has in the past 10 years.

 

Here i disagree. Kids who grew up on listening Linkin Park should be put in a mental hospital because of their incredibly bad taste of music, IMO. But in all seriousness, everyone knows Michael Jackson just like everyone knows the Duke. And they are hoping for another album as good as "Thriller", instead of a "Blood on the dance floor".

 

Also, there hasn't been a good pop album like "Thriller" since, well "Thriller" was released. I do think that the gaming community hopes for a new Duke, just as good as their parents/friends/themselves said it was.

[Nick_i_am]

I've never had problem with the quality of the games. My contention is that the B-movie humor of Duke will easily show through as trying too hard to be funny with modern game design. They'll inherently be forced to provide more context to the adventure than in the previous games, which automatically means that facet of it will gain more prominence.

 

Agreed, though with any luck they won't even try to 'provide more context' (which has made roflcakes out of more than one revived oldschool game).

 

Likewise, the gameplay might simply not be able to make the transition to modern times in any way that makes it above average in a crouded market that has long since forgotten about the duke.

 

I guess that the reason people are excited is that, far from being a Doom knockoff (not that you actually suggested that), the game was pretty groundbreaking in terms of the mechanics it introduced. Destructable terrain, integrated melee, mouse-aim, usable tools (such as the medikit or jetpack) and coop multiplayer all made it stand out from the croud.

 

My point is that it's not completely irrational nostalga (save for the sadacts who have been obsessing about it since launch).

[Tale]

My point is that it's not completely irrational nostalga

Does it have to be irrational for me to make a joke out of it?

 

But in all seriousness, everyone knows Michael Jackson just like everyone knows the Duke. And they are hoping for another album as good as "Thriller", instead of a "Blood on the dance floor".

See, we'll just have to agree to disagree here. I think the only people who would care about another Michael Jackson are nutjobs and myself. And I'm not even entirely sure I'm on that list.

Edited December 19, 2007 by Tale

[Moatilliatta]

In other words "because of nostalgia."

No.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/nostalgia

2: a wistful or excessively sentimental yearning for return to or of some past period or irrecoverable condition; also : something that

I'm not hoping for them to give me the exact feeling I had when I was a 10-year old kid playing DN3D, I'm hoping that they create a DN setting with fun levels so that I will have a fun game. Nostalgia would be the driving factor if I actually played DN3D today.

 

I don't really see why you don't think it possible to be amused by that.

[Slowtrain]

Duke3d was the first game I ever played in which the toilets flushed. A trend that has now been copied ad nauseum in every fps since.

[Moatilliatta]

Except that duke made a joke when he did it (right?) which every game who tried to copy it forgot, making it an ultimately useless action in the vast majority of games.

[Slowtrain]

Doom clone

 

 

Actually D3d wasn't really a doom clone at all. AT the time of its release its main competitor was Quake. FPS gamers were pretty much split into 2 groups: those who swore by the "true 3d" of QUake (which was a Doom clone of course) and those who loved the over the top gameplay and setting of D3D.

 

DUke3d had an inventory, jetpacks, wild level design, laser trip mines and pipe bombs (which were unheard of in those days)

 

 

A lot of the later fps enhancements really owe their development to duke 3d rather than doom/quake.

[WILL THE ALMIGHTY]

Well.. that was unsurprisingly badass... and just as unsurprisingly empty of any satisfying content.

[Bokishi]

The graphics suck, they should upgrade to CryEngine2

Edited December 20, 2007 by Bokishi

[WITHTEETH]

The graphics suck, they should upgrade to CryEngine

Are you being facetious?

[Pop]

Crytek gotta pay the mortgage somehow.

[Bokishi]

The graphics suck, they should upgrade to CryEngine

Are you being facetious?

 

corrected my post

[Tale]

Actually D3d wasn't really a doom clone at all. AT the time of its release its main competitor was Quake.

 

Doom Clone was not a term used to actually represent games that were clones of Doom. It was a term for any FPS practically up until Quake was released, which happened to be 5 months after Duke Nukem 3D.

 

Further, as I already stated, I did not use the term to imply it had a lot to owe to Doom, but to infer that it belonged to an era long gone.

Edited December 20, 2007 by Tale

[Slowtrain]

Actually D3d wasn't really a doom clone at all. AT the time of its release its main competitor was Quake.

 

Doom Clone was not a term used to actually represent games that were clones of Doom. It was a term for any FPS practically up until Quake was released, which happened to be 5 months after Duke Nukem 3D.

 

 

Doom clone is somewhat derogatory in nature and implies that the game in question offers only a rehash of what Doom had done. Much like System Shock some years before, D3D was an anti-doom clone. People who played Quake generally did not like D3d; people who liked D3d generally disliked quake. The Quake fanboys considered D3d to be old tech and needlessly complicated. Duke fanboys considered Quake an unsightly mush of green and brown polygons that actually had less gameplay than doom/doom2. Both sides were correct, of course. Quake was the 3d fps in its ugly infancy, while DUke with its Build engine was the last, and most mature (development wise not gameplay wise), of the 2-d sprite based games

 

Duke4 was a highly anticipated game back then because of the premise that it would combine its gameplay with an engine that equalled or surpassed quake/quake2. Of course ultimately Doom/Quake "won", partially because 3d realms appeared unable to finish their promised game and became a laughing stock and partially because the id machine was totally unstoppable until Valve gave id a big fat knuckle sandwich with Half Life (which owed a lot more to D3d than to Doom)

 

My point being don't make the mistake of selling D3d short or likewise not understanding the significance that Duke4 had even in its promise of what might be.

[Nick_i_am]

haha, I was going to make that post, then realised I couldn't be bothered.

[Slowtrain]

A little history is good for the soul.

 

All that stuff is pulled from my somewhat (OK, extremely) hazy memories of those days however, so to call it history is probably a bit too highfalutin'. Demented ramblings might be a better term.