NMA Fallout 3 preview and Q&A session

[Hurlshort]

Who's on first?

[Sand]

Who's on first?

What's on second?

[Morgoth]

I heard some nasty rumors that Bethesda is also leering at the Thief license. Now I don't really care if they screw up Fallout3 since I never really was that much interested in it, but if they touch Thief....

[Musopticon?]

To be totally blunt, I actually have some hope for a good Beth Thief game. Dark Brotherhood quests and the Thief Guild ones were good, they have Emil, Shivering Isles was rather good at dancing on the morale grey ground and further hope arises from the fact that it's not an rpg, so even though their character interaction could be vastly better, that's not what Thief is about.

 

Brutally honest, I'm sick and tired of slowly ascending to the humus of puritanism seeping through the fanbase, where reformists are shunned and clinging on to vain hope that the Dark Mod may eventually produce something decent. Thief deserves a modern take, one that is done by people that love it and want to share their glimpses into the myriad gormenghastic milieu of Dark Project. The Garrett storyline is done and finished, they can't mess it up because it stands on its own and Thief for me has always been about the graft-ridden and magic-seeped steampunk-inferno world of City and about the grandiose heists, not whether Garrett should carry a one foot or 5 inch metal shard, zombies be fast or not or if the UI elements are too large(OH LAWD).

 

In short, I want to again see the player stand under a guttering street lamp, place a shaft on the arrow holster, briefly taking in the klaxon and cricket, the masonworks and pavement's slow crack under ivy, and with nothing but his wits and a smathering of gear go on to grin at the odds facing him.

 

Hell, it's about time.

[Morgoth]

In short, I want to again see the player stand under a guttering street lamp, place a shaft on the arrow holster, briefly taking in the klaxon and cricket, the masonworks and pavement's slow crack under ivy, and with nothing but his wits and a smathering of gear go on to grin at the odds facing him.

 

Hell, it's about time.

Sounds good in my book, but what do you mean with "modern take"? It's just what you described what makes Thief so great.

 

Beth would have to fullfil three requirements though:

-An own team to create PC specific Interface/Controls and difficulty. I don't want to rely on fanmade mods a'la Thief:DS again in order to play a PC game like a PC game, not a console port

- A better Art director that can do more than just up the Bloom slider.

- Eric Brosius

 

Nuff said

Edited September 2, 2007 by Morgoth

[Hurlshort]

Does anyone remember Redguard? It was a solid action-adventure title that Bethesda did. So it's not like they are totally limited to Daggerfall/Morrowind/Oblivion games.

 

http://www.elderscrolls.com/tenth_anniv/te...iv-redguard.htm

 

Of course, it was ten years ago. Personally I think they could pull of a fantastic Thief based on the examples Mus gave.

[Morgoth]

Irrational (2K) would be the ideal candidate for a Thief sequel, but I know that won't happen. Besides, with Eidos Montreal allegedly doing Deus Ex 3, why would Eidos sell the Rights if they just could create "a modern take" (aka ruining it) by themself?

[Musopticon?]

I was actually going to refer to Redguard, but think it is a pretty old title, old enough to not really measure Beth's devs right now.

 

That said, it was pretty decent, felt a bit like Return to Krondor(a very solid title) and swashbuckling is always a welcome addition to any game.

 

Anyway, I think Beth has it. As long as they are acutely aware that Thief awarded players who sought to refrain from open combat. It was possible to remain in constant stealth in Oblivion and most quests that were about burglary stuff didn't make you kill anyone or use force. I'm content so far.

 

Of course, I know of this certain lot of players who are probably going to refer to the limited stealth gameplay in Beth's previous games and complain how this of course means that their Thief game will have the same problems.

 

Edit: Modern take? Well, SS2 and Bioshock, Thief and...? Anyone can make a case that Bioshock is bastardization of SS2, but it doesn't mean that the game can't stand on it's own while still remaining "true" to it's predecessors. There are some things I could live without in previous Thiefs, particularly the inane world-saving plots and limited acrobatics(Sam Fisher anyone?). Replacing those with something else wouldn't make it any less a Thief game. I can always play the nth fanmission with Garrett killing some resurrected arch bastard from eating everyone's souls(I lost count after playing about 100 Thief 1 fms and 400 Thief 2 ones) if I have a need for "pure" Thievery.

 

One thing though, I hope they stay the heck away from the fanbase, particularly TTLG. I mean, I love the place, but Fallout 3 has some things that were obviously forced by fan pressure, like the incredibly stupid Morrowind hit perception and the "must have" super mutants that look nothing like the earlier ones. It's like Beth is torn between trying to do their own game and listening to constant fan bickering.

 

Edit2: Heh, why do I torment myself? It's not like Eidos will sell the rights. No, they'll have Crystal Dynamics, their only moneymaker and cabable team make it. I don't know, LoK: Defiance wasn't exactly stellar.

Edited September 2, 2007 by Musopticon?

[Morgoth]

And what about Eidos Montreal? Let Crystal Dynamic doing a Thief game equals a crime, agreed. I wouldn't mind some darkish Blood Omen sequel, however.

 

And the "inane world-saving plot" never played out like you're some typical hero who does it on his own volition. Garret is an egoist who's just dragged into some "circumstances". Hell, and I don't need an acrobatic Sam Fisher monkey, either. This isn't about acrobatics, but stealth. Feeling limited and vulnerable is what made Thief so unique. No Altair, no Prince of Persia, no Sam Fisher please.

[Tale]

I don't know, LoK: Defiance wasn't exactly stellar.

You shut up! I'm still waiting for a sequel!

[Musopticon?]

And what about Eidos Montreal? Let Crystal Dynamic doing a Thief game equals a crime, agreed. I wouldn't mind some darkish Blood Omen sequel, however.

 

And the "inane world-saving plot" never played out like you're some typical hero who does it on his own volition. Garret is an egoist who's just dragged into some "circumstances". Hell, and I don't need an acrobatic Sam Fisher monkey, either. This isn't about acrobatics, but stealth. Feeling limited and vulnerable is what made Thief so unique. No Altair, no Prince of Persia, no Sam Fisher please.

It doesn't matter if Garrett always starts reclutantly, so far he's been saving the City from madmen every time. I thought that fanmissions spotlighted a different, yet true to Thief scenarios, like dealing with crime lords and the like and had zounds more potential. Though it's not like I feel insulted even if the plot does end up with saving the world, the twists that led there are usually worth it.

 

As for acrobatics, stealth doesn't cancel it out or vice versa. When was Splinter Cell about acrobatics anyway? I can count quite a few of times when I felt like I was gimped because Garrett couldn't climb a tree or grab a ledge higher than his head. Thief wasn't about being limited, but about survival. Of course I didn't notice this stuff back in 99, but after a smathering of stealth games, and a million fan misisons, it's age sure does show. Making Garrett(or whatever the main character will be) not able to traverse obstacles that some old coot with a beer gut does simply because it's traditional feels like the old "only good crpg is a top down 2d one"-brainfart.

 

Edit: I'd kill for good Kain game. One that doesn't feature glowing superjump-nodes or honour guards with g-strings. A blood fest in the good old Nosgoth is something I've been wanting for a while. It's not like LoK:Defiance was bad, it just tried too much being a combat game and failed to deliver on other aspects. That said, an action game with the antihero vampire lord in full swing would be all kinds of awesome.

Edited September 2, 2007 by Musopticon?

[Dark_Raven]

Bethy needs to keep their filthy hands off the cool games of the past. Are they at the point that no one at that company can think of something original? It's about as lame as Hollywood and all of these "remakes" that are puked out.

[kirottu]

Bethy needs to keep their filthy hands off the cool games of the past. Are they at the point that no one at that company can think of something original? It's about as lame as Hollywood and all of these "remakes" that are puked out.

 

Beth isn

[Hell Kitty]

I love you Mus. Get a sex change and have my babies.

 

And as for "modern take", I remember something about ISA doing a Thief 4 that was a remake of TDP in a modern setting, before they died, of course.

[Musopticon?]

Yeah, I remember that. It was supposed to be sort of a mix of noir and gangsta. Personally, it wasn't exactly what I was looking for, but with a team that strong, minus Witchboy, they could have made miracles from anything, heh heh.

[Sand]

If Beth does another "blast from the past" instead of their own games or make an original series I think that would be just bad form. It has nothing to do with them "tainting" the originals but them not having enough creativity to make their own game and setting.

[Hurlshort]

If Beth does another "blast from the past" instead of their own games or make an original series I think that would be just bad form. It has nothing to do with them "tainting" the originals but them not having enough creativity to make their own game and setting.

 

Hmm, Obsidian has created a Star Wars game and a FR game. Now they are working on Aliens. Do you feel the same way about them?

[Sand]

If Beth does another "blast from the past" instead of their own games or make an original series I think that would be just bad form. It has nothing to do with them "tainting" the originals but them not having enough creativity to make their own game and setting.

 

Hmm, Obsidian has created a Star Wars game and a FR game. Now they are working on Aliens. Do you feel the same way about them?

 

There is a difference here. Obsidian needs "established" settings because they are a starting company when they took KotOR2 and NWN2. With Aliens it is just a movie tie in which there is no previous Aliens CRPG done before so they are in fresh territory. Bethesda on the other hand have been around for years, been doing their own thing for years, and have been very successful. Now all of a suddent they are taking the work of others instead of making their own settings? If Bethesda continued with the PotC based off the Disney franchise that would be okay because the game series would be their own, but Fallout is not their own game. Neither would Thief. They don't have the same excuse as Obsidian has because they are not a brand new starting company.

 

They should be doing what Bioware is doing, making original games. Both companies have been around for years and are coontemparies of each other. Bethesda is doing Fallout 3, while Bioware is doing Mass Effect and Dragon Age. 2 original games out do one "blast from the past."

[Slowtrain]

For me Thief was all about the Hammerites. A Thief mission without Hammerites was like a day without sunshine. All their dialogue was awesome, and when those Hammer guards reered back for a overhand smash from their titan hammers, I used to come close to wetting myself in panic.

 

 

the stealth aspects of Oblivion were some of the best parts of the game. Everything from the Thieves and DB quests to the implementation of stealth and backstabbing. The only thiefly area of the game that I felt was sorely lacking was the cruddy lockpicking minigame, but even that would have been much better if it was done in "live" time rather than with the game "frozen".

 

If I found out the Todd Howard was leading a Thief project I would be pretty excited. Far more so than I am by Fallout 3.

[Sand]

I hated the lock picking minigame. I simply hit the auto button till I either ran out of lock picks or open the lock.

[Tigranes]

I think it would have been great live - trying to get that thing right while you know a guard is coming round the corner, snapping the lock then hastily getting up to fight the guy behind you. Or the feeling when you're lockpicking and somebody suddenly goes "I saw a mudcrab today."

 

But yeah, frozen in time it's useless.

[Musopticon?]

Or the feeling when you're lockpicking and somebody suddenly goes "I saw a mudcrab today."

[Sand]

In one game my character killed anyone who said that. KILL THEM ALL!

[lurchman]

I think your all making a lot of hard decisions about a game, (Fallout 3), that there is almost nothing available as far as information goes. I've seen the video and read the speculations on it, and really can't bring myself to form an opinion on it. I loved Doom I & II, but didn't think much of Doom III. So just following a format that was succesful in the past, is no garuntee. I feel the same about Morrowind/Oblivion. I will concede one thing to game devolpers and designers. Its very hard to come up with new ideas that will be a hit with the vast majority of gamers. My experiences at modding has taught me that. I did small mods very easily, but try to develop something with a story and characters, that will carry throug hseveral hours of gameplay is another thing. As far as Fallout 3 goes, I'm leary. I played 1 & 2 dozens of times and really enjoyed them. And like a lot of you, I am questioning what Bethesda is going to do with it. But I think I will hold my opinions for now and see what develops. What worries me, is the fact that they are keeping it very tightly under wraps. Nothing much is leaking out. The game is supposed to be out in a year I believe. It seems to me, we should be hearing/seeing more about it. Afew screens maybe, or a bit about the story line. I don't know. But I did read this in an interview between Todd Howard and Gamespot.

 

Most haven't seen it yet, so I don't know if they'd be converted by screenshots or a teaser. Perhaps, but I doubt it. My general impression is they've hated the idea of us doing anything at all with it since 2004, so there's not much you can do about that except make the best game you can that is true to the series and yourself. To any fan that's actually seen the game, like many of the press guys, the feedback's been great

[Lare Kikkeli]

Don't worry lurchman, despite all this complaining and bickering, Visc & co will all pre-order it/buy it on release. And they'll probably enjoy it, too.