Mask of the Betrayer

[Gromnir]

"Thanks for proving my point!"

 

you really is delusional. in the aforementioned thread you went on a tear 'bout how magic is a crutch for bad story and the s'posed superiority or more "real" games like stalker. the fact that stalker is an real game has relevance how? you were making general statements 'bout fantasy genre and used a specific game to illustrate. so what is your point? we brought up eldar 'cause he were a 3rd party... and he saw the same contempt for all fantasy that did Gromnir in your posts. "Where I disagree with him(mk), perhaps less vigorously than Gromnir, is in his scorn towards magic in games."

 

...

 

so if you loves, or even likes fantasy, then you clearly were misleading more people than Gromnir. is that what you is doing here in this thread? you made a stoopid point that you don't real believe in and you gets carried away a bit... will forget all 'bout it a few weeks from now? no doubt we have to go through this all again as your selective memory issues is unlikely to be limited to one previous encounter.

 

 

 

"You mean looking more foolish than someone claiming lots of rubbish without backing anything up? Naah, don't think so, liar."

 

huh? look, at this point we suggest medications for mk as you ain't even trying to make points. Gromnir suggested that your interp of a bad wiki definition is flawed.... used a real living example to illustrate point. you not respond save to suggest that we should find better sources? this ain't a university paper where we debates differing string theories. is there some recognized expert o' source for geek and nerd definitions such as metagaming? wiki is it? do you even know how wiki definitions is created? for all you know, the author o' the metagaming entry at wiki could be sand or vol or even Gromnir. in any event, we applied your seeming interp of the wiki definition to a realistic scenario and ended up with a ridiculous result. is there a better way to show flaws of a bad definition? maybe, but as you not bother to respond, we probably won't know.

 

and as we noted already, your definition o' liar seems 'bout as screwy and extreme as your interp o' metagaming def... but o'course you again drags us away from your initial and unsustainable point 'bout the silliness of motb builds. now all you wanna discuss is whether wiwki definitions is a better way to prove point than Gromnir approach? getting kinda far afield, no?

 

sit back... takes a deep breath... look where you has gone and how wacky you ha gotten. is this really what you wanted to say? hope not.

 

HA! Good Fun!

Edited October 4, 2007 by Gromnir

[Blarghagh]

Magic is a crutch for a bad story?

 

So, you're saying magic, which is a plot device which can be used for almost anything, is bad for storytelling? Every plot device is only as good or bad as the writer is. Seriously, this is a really dumb generalisation. Like, "all opinions of this person on storytelling should be discarded" type dumb.

[Meshugger]

What's this with Sacred Fist requiring casting lvl 1 divine spells? Does it mean that my monk (currently lvl 20) have to multiclass with a cleric in order to become a SF?

[Gromnir]

"Magic is the easy way out for a failed story."

 

so there ain't no misconception, the above is actually how mk put it... coupled with comments stating a preference for "realism" and seeming "scorn" o' magic... is easy to see why eldar and others see mk as disliking fantasy.

 

'course mk has some odd notions 'bout what is and ain't fantasy and magic.

 

"a game set in an alternate reality that's based on real life events, locations and equipment."

 

bis had a game like that... called it Lionheart. and as noted in another thread, stalker clearly relied on elements that were not w/i realm of the possible... no less fantastic than magic. mk had an unsupportable pov from start... no wonder he wants to forget.

 

even so, we IS getting pretty far off-track.

 

HA! Good Fun!

[Gromnir]

What's this with Sacred Fist requiring casting lvl 1 divine spells? Does it mean that my monk (currently lvl 20) have to multiclass with a cleric in order to become a SF?

 

 

if Gromnir tells you it will result in your being a roll-player who metagames. now, armed with your knowledge o' da rulez, you will either avoid or embrace the sacred fist, your previously pristine mind tainted by games mechanics considerations... untimely robbed of the opportunity to makes choices based on pure and innocent whimsy.

 

HA!

 

those is the pnp prereqs we gave, but yeah, you does need at least 1 level o' cleric, paladin(4 levels?,) druid, spirit shaman, or favored soul to becomes a sacred fist in motb.

 

http://nwvault.ign.com/faq/index.php?category=14#14_3_6

 

there you go... and welcome to the ranks.

 

HA! Good Fun!

Edited October 4, 2007 by Gromnir

[Sand]

Wait. A fantasy storyline and game that doesn't use magic isn't a fantasy storyline and game. One of the key aspects of fantasy literature is magic. You aren't making sense, Gromnir.

[Gromnir]

...

 

stalker is the game mk refers to in the quoted material. stalker is the game mk sees as grounded in reality... in spite of unrealistic mechanics and some completely fantastic elements. game is realistic and non-fantastic/magical 'cause it uses real world equipment, locations and events? lionheart did all those things.

 

am not sure where we got you turned 'round. mk is all over the map, but Gromnir is pretty consistent... but again, getting way off-track.

 

HA! Good Fun!

Edited October 4, 2007 by Gromnir

[Istima Loke]

I just got back from uni and on my way I picked the game. I'm installing it right now...

[Gromnir]

ah yes, the game...

 

still have one lingering question that for some reason we not see answered at bio or on this board:

 

how does warlock imbue item work in motb?

 

post 1.10 warlocks can't take item creation feats in nwn2... which makes a kinda sense. would be pointLESS to take item creation feats in nwn2 w/o available imbue item ability. even so, we ain't seen anybody give an accurate description o' how warlock imbue works in motb. at the nwn vault there were a description o' wizard crafting in motb that stated that caster level requirements had been removed from the motb casting equation. so how does that work for warlock? all you need is item creation feat (maybe) and a high enough umd? seems a tad bit broken, but am still curious.

 

btw, in pnp warlock crafting works as follows:

 

1) gotta have warlock imbue item ability

2) gotta have the appropriate item creation feat... wannna make a sword, then you need craft arms

3) need requisite min caster level, where warlock level = caster level

4) need high enough umd skill level to mimic the spell(s) that would otherwise need be cast on the intended magical widget

5) time, materials, xp penalty, etc.

 

 

HA! Good Fun!

Edited October 4, 2007 by Gromnir

[Meshugger]

What's this with Sacred Fist requiring casting lvl 1 divine spells? Does it mean that my monk (currently lvl 20) have to multiclass with a cleric in order to become a SF?

 

 

if Gromnir tells you it will result in your being a roll-player who metagames. now, armed with your knowledge o' da rulez, you will either avoid or embrace the sacred fist, your previously pristine mind tainted by games mechanics considerations... untimely robbed of the opportunity to makes choices based on pure and innocent whimsy.

 

HA!

 

those is the pnp prereqs we gave, but yeah, you does need at least 1 level o' cleric, paladin(4 levels?,) druid, spirit shaman, or favored soul to becomes a sacred fist in motb.

 

http://nwvault.ign.com/faq/index.php?category=14#14_3_6

 

there you go... and welcome to the ranks.

 

HA! Good Fun!

 

Thank you.

 

For the record, i actually like fooling around with classes, this one of the reasons on why i like NWN2. I just wanted to make sure that i get as much out of SF as possible. Imagine that

 

//EDIT: about the metagaming issue: Sure it can be tricky to grasp at first, there's also some faults, but in the end, it's quite fun and rewarding. I fail to see why mkreku is so negative about it, maybe he accidently multiclassed with 5 different classes and ended up being "Master-of-thing"?

Edited October 4, 2007 by Meshugger

[Reinoc]

Being an outside, neutral observer, I declare Gromnir the winner of the argument.

[Sand]

I consider Stalker science fiction, not fantasy. Lionheart is definitely fantasy. Bad fantasy at that.

[taks]

Being an outside, neutral observer, I declare Gromnir the winner of the argument.

he's a lawyer, making this hardly a surprise.

 

taks

[Pop]

What's this with Sacred Fist requiring casting lvl 1 divine spells? Does it mean that my monk (currently lvl 20) have to multiclass with a cleric in order to become a SF?

I was under the impression that Sacred Fist was less of a prestige class for monks (who get ridiculous at high levels anyhow) and more of a prestige class for clerics that gives them some of, but not all, the powers of a monk.

[Sand]

Its a bit of both. It is for Monk/Clerics multiclassed characters mostly.

[Kelverin]

he's a lawyer

That answers so many questions.

[Big Bottom]

*pictures Gromnir addressing the court in character*

[tripleRRR]

I consider Stalker science fiction, not fantasy. Lionheart is definitely fantasy. Bad fantasy at that.

 

 

So much potential went down the drain with Lionheart. :'(

[Dark_Raven]

Gromnir is awesome. He always wins the threads!

 

HA! Good Fun!

[Berserk]

The Divine Fist looks like a pretty pretty fun concept, although I wouldn't have minded to get the Arcane Fist PrC as well. Has anyone played a Divine Fist enough to give some impressions of it?

Edited October 5, 2007 by Berserk

[Pop]

So why doesn't somebody just lay out all the extra crap for us, character-wise? I've only got bits and pieces.

[Fionavar]

We are now @ +500 posts ... feel free to start again with a new installation in the Spoilers section