Mask of the Betrayer

[taks]

Shadows are a real monster in NwN 2. I can run the game at 1600x900 resolution and get a decent frame rate, but turn shadows on, and everything else off, set the resolution to 800x600 and I still get a horrendous frame rate in city areas. Wilderness areas actually run fine with shadows on, even at a high resolution but the city locations just kill it. Makes me wish NwN 2 had used the Doom 3 engine.

i assume you have a monitor with 1600x900 native resolution?

 

taks

[Tale]

It still has performance issues for me. But oh well.

 

I like the strategy mode, but am not a fan of the character mode default keymaps. Perhaps without the performance issue I could accept using mouselook instead of using the keyboard to turn. Overall, that's mostly just an issue with customization and having to get used to it. I love the strategy mode and am likely to use that as my default mode. However, I'm still used to BG controls, so hopefully I can find whatever key is "select party" and the only thing it lacks is formations.

 

And touch sneak attacks.

 

Crap, looks like webdings and wingdings have been disabled.

Edited September 6, 2007 by Tale

[taks]

uh, wow... even indoors my showfps is now reading upwards of 80, minimum of 45-50 or so. outdoors consistently 60-70. way cool.

oh, 1600x1200 with everything at max, or near max, but environment shadows off.

 

taks

[Tale]

I'm bottlenecked on the CPU side, which I suspect is related to it. Most games seem more forgiving of it, though.

 

When Mask of the Betrayer comes out, I'll probably just play with nVidia's scaling options and pillarbox the game to a lower resolution like I used with my 4:3.

 

Edit: Or as an alternative, bump the thing up to my full 1680 x 1050 native and turn off some of the more meaningless options (that I don't remember turning on) while keeping shadows to low. Which seems to run a lot better.

Edited September 6, 2007 by Tale

[GreasyDogMeat]

uh, wow... even indoors my showfps is now reading upwards of 80, minimum of 45-50 or so. outdoors consistently 60-70. way cool.

oh, 1600x1200 with everything at max, or near max, but environment shadows off.

 

taks

 

Oh, cool, 1.07 beta is out! I'm going to have to try it and see if there is any noticable difference in frame rate with shadows on.

 

My native resolution is actually 1680x1050, but I've noticed a slight frame rate improvement with 1600x900, and it doesn't stretch things too badly.

[taks]

really, that's odd... of course, there's no rational reason for 16:10.5 scaling on any monitor. it's always been 4:3 or 16:9, so it would _seem_ like the 1600x900 should inherently be better because the game is probably coded for it... no need to interpolate up via the video card i bet. hard to say, since that's not my area of expertise.

 

sorry to hear that tale. i've got a 6600 core2duo. not gimped by cpu at all. in fact, once either my wife or child experience catastrophic pooter failure, whether initiated by me tinkering or otherwise, i'm intending on upgrading to something meatier.

 

taks

[Pop]

Installed the patch, and the first thing I've noticed is that the load times are longer. A lot longer. By minutes.

 

Hmm, maybe it needs more RAM? I've got an extra stick lying around somewhere.

[Aegeri]

Hmmm. I'm still not entirely sure on this game yet. The orc caves and warehouse have left a really bad taste in my mouth and I really don't want a repeat.

[Pop]

Are you talking about NWN2 or MotB?

[Starwars]

Installed the patch, and the first thing I've noticed is that the load times are longer. A lot longer. By minutes

 

That's odd, I've noticed no change at all here.

 

Anyways, I'm pretty impressed so far. There's been a few smaller things that I've reported at the Bioware forums (I'm Leinadi over there btw). Overall I quite like the new camera modes, but I did have to fiddle around with them for a while to get all the options right for me. I've always been someone who plays Top-down in NWN2, but now I actually find myself switching to Character mode every now and then just for fun really.

 

Performance is also increased for me, and the game somehow looks a bit sharper. I was able to bump up shadows to medium (full was still a major no), with a few other bells and whistles on that I couldn't enable before. The option for not rendering shadows far away from you turned out to be great for me, but I wish (like someone suggested at the Bioware forums) that it's turned into a slider so we can control how far off the shadows will be rendered.

 

All in all, I'm impressed so far.

[Tale]

really, that's odd... of course, there's no rational reason for 16:10.5 scaling on any monitor. it's always been 4:3 or 16:9, so it would _seem_ like the 1600x900 should inherently be better

 

16:10 is pretty much standard for widescreen LCDs. 16:9 is more common for HD TVs.

[@\NightandtheShape/@]

really, that's odd... of course, there's no rational reason for 16:10.5 scaling on any monitor. it's always been 4:3 or 16:9, so it would _seem_ like the 1600x900 should inherently be better because the game is probably coded for it... no need to interpolate up via the video card i bet. hard to say, since that's not my area of expertise.

 

taks

 

If written properly, which I imagine it is, the resolution, aspect radio, and games camera lens are irrelivant, they will always calculate the correct result, this is due to the data thrown into the perspective and view matricies, its just that certain resolutions are alot more commonly supported by monitors. The code itself should be totally dyanamic.

[Cantousent]

Hmmm. I'm still not entirely sure on this game yet. The orc caves and warehouse have left a really bad taste in my mouth and I really don't want a repeat.

 

You don't want to be like a cat on a hot tin roof, do you? Burned once and never sets foot on it again, even in the cool evening hours.

 

Of all the criticism, this most confounds me. I'm not trying to convince you to buy the game. I am hoping that you have some other reason than the one you state here to make the decision.

 

If this is your only deal breaker, then I present you with an unbroken deal. MotB does not present the same thing as the NWN2 orc caves.

 

Damn it, I'm trying to find the Tenessee Williams quote, but I can't.

Edited September 6, 2007 by Cantousent

[Pop]

Digging the new camera features but I don't know how to slow down the mouse-initiated camera turning. It's bugging me.

[Rob McGinnis]

Digging the new camera features but I don't know how to slow down the mouse-initiated camera turning. It's bugging me.

 

In Strategy mode, on the top right of the options screen, there is a slider for "Camera Scroll Speed with Mouse." In Character Mode, the slider is called "Edge of Screen Turn Speed." It appears the tool tip for the Character Mode option is incorrect.

[Pop]

thankee.

[Gorth]

Hmmm. I'm still not entirely sure on this game yet. The orc caves and warehouse have left a really bad taste in my mouth and I really don't want a repeat.

 

...

 

Of all the criticism, this most confounds me. I'm not trying to convince you to buy the game. I am hoping that you have some other reason than the one you state here to make the decision.

He does have a point though. NWN2 was a long game with fun parts and less fun parts. Those sequences were (for me at least) the most unfun parts of the game, and if anything could be cut out of my game with a knife, those would be it. Not only tedious and boring, but also came across as "artificial". Not to mention they ruined part of the purpose of the tracking skill :sad:

 

If I could just press a fast forward button in those areas (or if a modder could to a hack that made them skippable), I might be inclined to play NWN2 again

Edited September 7, 2007 by Gorth

[Cantousent]

Yeah, there were some parts of NWN2 that make replays a little bit of a chore. Personally, while I understand that a lot of folks liked the docks war, it certainly wasn't my favorite. That was, I thought, the weak part of the story as well as the weak part of the gameplay. The orc caves were at least straightforward. Kill a bunch of orcs. Still not my favorite, but at least it got me out of the city. If I never see another game set in Neverwinter again, it will be too soon.

[GreasyDogMeat]

I'd have to say 1.07 is the most impressive patch so far. The game feels much more polished now.

 

-New inventory items flash to show you that you just picked them up. This helps a lot with organization, but I would still prefer a list style KoTOR 2 inventory system that sorts by item type and name. I do not like grid style inventories anymore, and NwN 2's grid inventory is one of the most basic, difficult to see (the items are not immediatly obvious what they are) and annoying. Really, where is the fun in going into the inn or keep, then leaving to switch characters, passing items, rinsing and repeating. In the castle/inn you should have a shared inventory with all party members like the Ebon Hawk in KoTOR 2. Likewise I would like to see access to all party members inventories for easy organization/passing/buying and selling. It is a real bitch to keep having to travel to a location, swapping members, then heading back to a store. It is even more annoying than the old IE games because atleast in BG 2 the inventories were much smaller while in NWN 2 characters can carry ridiculous amounts of potions, weapons, crafting supplies etc. and passing them is a nightmare.

 

The new inventory flash is GREATLY appreciated, but it is a peice of gum on a broken dam imho. Even if a list style inventory is, for some strange reason, out of the question, there is no reason a sort button couldn't be implemented. You could click this button and it would put all items of a like type near each other. All potions by other potions, all weapons by others etc. This issue really isn't noticable in the early parts of the game, it is once you get to the keep and have a large party that inventory management becomes a nightmare. I really could go on and on about why I hate the NwN 2 inventory... it really bleeds time better spent on actual role playing and battles. I in no way want a 'consolized noob' inventor, a weight limit and even a space limit could still remain in effect, there just needs to be a better sorting mechanism, and an easier means to pass and sell items between the party. Luckily, with Mask of the Betrayer, it sounds like fewer NPCs means less inventory management woes.

 

-I like how new journal entries appear in bold yellow text on your screen.

 

-The game feels a bit more fluid now and performance has been improved with shadows. It still is not enough to actually allow high shadows on in city locations though.

 

Shadows are awkward in NWN 2 in that I can turn them on in many locations and get smooth frame rates of 30-40 with 1600x900 resolutions, while other locations, mainly city locations in Neverwinter bring my frame rate down to the low teens, even at very low resolutions like 800x600. This is also with shadow quality on the low setting. Makes no sense that I can get great shadows in the Unreal 3 and Doom 3 engines. Perhaps more options could be added. The ability to turn off shadows on grass, or self shadowing for instance could greatly improve the frame rate.

 

-I like to use the WASD keys to move my character, and I've noticed a glitch has been fixed. Previously if I ran into a scene where a character dialog starts up, my character would continue to run in place, this seems to be fixed now.

 

-I'd like to see a custom difficulty setting that allows you to activate/deactivate all of the difficulty options the player desires.

 

Prime example: I like many of the 'D&D Hardcore' difficulty settings, but I don't like how spells also damage your own party. It would be fantastic if I could keep all of the 'hard' options on except this one item. The reason I personally don't like it on has to do with enemies immune to other enemies area of effect spells. Qara casts a fireball at your group and you all get hurt, enemy wizard casts a fire ball at a group of his friends and they are immune.

 

-Either ragdoll physics, or a Call of Duty 1/2 style body alignment to slopes would be very nice. It is really distracting to see bodies lying halfway into hills.

[Adam Brennecke]

I'd have to say 1.07 is the most impressive patch so far. The game feels much more polished now.

 

-New inventory

 

-I like to use the WASD keys to move my character, and I've noticed a glitch has been fixed. Previously if I ran into a scene where a character dialog starts up, my character would continue to run in place, this seems to be fixed now.

 

 

That WASD bug was "driving" me crazy when playing through MotB. I finally had enough of it and fixed it with Brock's assistance about two weeks ago. I'm glad you noticed!

 

As for the inventory issues, there's a few more tweaks and features that will be coming soon that may make you happy.

 

-Brennecke

[GreasyDogMeat]

I'd have to say 1.07 is the most impressive patch so far. The game feels much more polished now.

 

-New inventory <snip>

 

-I like to use the WASD keys to move my character, and I've noticed a glitch has been fixed. Previously if I ran into a scene where a character dialog starts up, my character would continue to run in place, this seems to be fixed now.

 

 

That WASD bug was "driving" me crazy when playing through MotB. I finally had enough of it and fixed it with Brock's assistance about two weeks ago. I'm glad you noticed!

 

As for the inventory issues, there's a few more tweaks and features that will be coming soon that may make you happy.

 

-Brennecke

 

Any improvements to the inventory system make me very happy. The new flashing icons really do help when picking up new items. I have a habit of spacing items at various pages and with slots seperating them, every time I pick up a horde of new items it just throws it into the mix and it takes a while to sort. The flashing lets me immediatly spot what I've just picked up for faster sorting.

 

Also, I'm glad to report some of the emotes have been fixed. In previous versions dust off and a few other emotes were playing a digging animation and they now play the correct animations. It may be small, but I like to emote and it IS nice to see.

[Aegeri]

Hmmm. I'm still not entirely sure on this game yet. The orc caves and warehouse have left a really bad taste in my mouth and I really don't want a repeat.

 

You don't want to be like a cat on a hot tin roof, do you? Burned once and never sets foot on it again, even in the cool evening hours.

 

Well there are many reasons why I completely despised those areas. The first was how verisimilitude breaking it was to literally massacre half the city watch and have nobody react to that subsequently. It was just ridiculous. I must have (at a rough count) killed 50+ members of the city watch, maybe even getting up to 100 and nobody cares? I can wander around the city and the remaining watch is like "hullo sir, please don't chop my head off" or whatever. The orc caves were just insipid on every level and clearly had no other purpose than to drag the game out.

 

Of all the criticism, this most confounds me. I'm not trying to convince you to buy the game. I am hoping that you have some other reason than the one you state here to make the decision.

 

Oh no, I am perfectly serious that I have zero interest in another warehouse massacre-a-thon or orc cave thing.

 

If this is your only deal breaker, then I present you with an unbroken deal. MotB does not present the same thing as the NWN2 orc caves.

 

I'll have to see. If combat is more Icewind Dale than NWN2, that would be a really good start for me.

 

Yeah, there were some parts of NWN2 that make replays a little bit of a chore. Personally, while I understand that a lot of folks liked the docks war, it certainly wasn't my favorite.

 

The docks war was fine. The warehouse massacre was not.

Edited September 8, 2007 by Aegeri

[Cantousent]

My problem with the docks war was that it was in the city of Neverwinter, where I'd rather not set foot again if I can help it.

[Pop]

My problem with the docks war was that it was in the city of Neverwinter, where I'd rather not set foot again if I can help it.

Because NWN2 can't handle populated areas at all or because the city itself is boring?

 

In fact, that's one thing I wanted to ask about MotB - If there are city areas, do they cover more than half a block?

[J.E. Sawyer]

I'll have to see. If combat is more Icewind Dale than NWN2, that would be a really good start for me.

The expansion does start out pretty mellow in the combat department, but it ramps up quickly after that. We put a good amount of effort into revising the combat scenarios so they felt tactically challenging. We tried to find ways to differentiate enemy types from area to area and within each area. Tactical difficulty is usually more interesting than numeric difficulty, if that makes sense.

 

I think that weathered veterans will at least find the combat engaging. Total nubs (e.g. Adam Brennecke) will probably be wiped out at a few spots. But hey, you're playing an epic-level D&D game, so suck it up and get promoted out of the Nubtorian Guard. I certainly believe that the majority of players moving from NWN2 to MotB will find the latter more interesting and challenging overall.