Top 5 KOTOR 1 and 2 foes.

[Omelette]

I was referring to the fact that still does not mean "storywise" most powerful ones.

Oh, gotcha. Someone said title and I was thrown off.

 

What are there, like six or seven? Maybe less. I think meta got it right with just about 5 sith lords in both games combined. Bastila doesn't really count. She only fell for like a day or two.

[muscrat]

1: Darth Traya~The fist time i played through the game she owned me

2: Master Vrook~Even if you finish the other planets he is still hard because he heals himself

3: Calo Nord~Every time i face him i almost die, no idea why though

4: Darth Sion~He's cheap

5: Darth Malak~???

[Reven of Earth]

AS i read this forum, i see more and more people putting darth traya. Honestly, i didn't find her hard at all. ALl i did was run around until the three lightsabers got lost from each other then i took them on one by one.

 

But I will have to say calo nord was pretty hard.

[Darth Mortis]

Calo is a major pain no matter how often you play. The only way I've found of killing him with minimum hassle is to get everyone buffed up before the fight, then to start lobbing plasma granades at him before closing in. Even then you have to keep an eye on your party-for some reason they keep changing targets from him to some two bit bounty hunter who's not really going to hurt them.

[metadigital]

I seem to recall the Bandon fight being more difficult than it should have been ... probably because I had to take the little droid, who wasn't much of a fighter at that stage.

[Dark_Raven]

Calo Nord was a clown. a Few thermo detonators finished him off.

[Sturm]

Malak was annoying, what I really wanted for the end show down between Revan and Malak was a pure lightsaber duel, Malak and his annoying force spamming just after after this rediculous flurry which hit 35-30-40 sort of damage, not even giving you a turn.. so pretty much you had to result to force spamming yourself, and running around destroying the jedi so he doesnt get to them either.

[Guest The Architect]

Hip hip, hooray!

 

Welcome back OPG!

 

So... should my wrinkled Palpatine figure and your Dominatrix-masked Nihilus hook up some power coupling?

 

 

Or would you prefer some power coupling from Luke Skywalker and your precious Level 50 totally unintelligent brute Sith Lord?

 

Anyway OPG, you're either ignoring or have got the wrong idea as to how Nihilus became the planet eating monster that he was in TSL, and by doing so, you won't understand why what he has isn't truly power.

 

Tell me this, if Nihilus became the inhuman planet eating monster that he was in TSL simply because he was a normal force-sensitive fella who became so powerful, then why is Darth Sidious, not Nihilus', canonically the most powerful Sith Lord of all time, as Sidious could not drain the life of an entire planet?

 

And hey, story wise Darth Nihilus would have to be one of the weakest top foes, as his draining ability was useless against the Exile because of his wound in the Force status, and without that, well, considering his void in the Force status, was pretty weak, as the game play most likely reflected, hence his easy beat status in TSL.

Edited June 25, 2007 by The Architect

[Darth Mortis]

Tell me this, if Nihilus became the inhuman planet eating monster that he was in TSL simply because he was a normal force-sensitive fella who became so powerful, then why is Darth Sidious, not Nihilus', canonically the most powerful Sith Lord of all time, as Sidious could not drain the life of an entire planet?

 

I'd like to know where it says that Sidious was the most powerful Sith Lord, I'd also like to know if you mean pure strength in the force or if your also including the power he could draw from other sources (ie; Allies).

 

If you mean most Powerful in the force your wrong-that would be Vader-at least before he lost most of his limbs-since he had a midiclorian count higher than any recorded before. Plus Sidious tells Yoda that Vader will become more powerful than both of them-indicating that Vaders strength in the force was greater than his masters.

 

If you mean power including allies etc then Sidious would indeed be the most powerful Sith Lord ever, since he could call on the resorces of the entire Galactic Empire at will.

[Xard]

It's canon, Palpatine is strongest sith ever.

 

Vader would've been, but thanks for Mustafar, he only has 80 % of his power

[OverPowered Godzilla (OPG)]

It's canon, Palpatine is strongest sith ever.

 

Vader would've been, but thanks for Mustafar, he only has 80 % of his power

 

Aahahahaha. [i strongly disagree.] PEROID! Palps is [not so tough]. Don't care what ANYONE says he DID HIDE and LIED TO STAY ALIVE. And I don't care what anyone says about Nihilus because the FACT remains that Nihilus could instantly kill all force sensitives on the planet and palps couldn't he had to lie and have OTHERS DO it for his WEAK ass because he was a minipulater and only the most powerful sith during HIS TIME you get it? HE EVEN ADMITTED TO HIS MASTER being more powerful. The only reasonb why palps was as powerful as he was was because he had a FRACTION of ancient sith knowledge but wasn't [very powerful] if you would take him back to exar kun days. SO MUCH EVIDENCE THAT you ignore. Ignorance. FACT: Nihilus WOULD instantly KILL palps and there is NOTHING palps can do about it so argue it ALL you want but that remains a fact no matter what you say. The Exile has the same power as Nihilus as he/she is able to feed off all the death he/she causes and can instantly learn and MASTER forms that take years for most jedi to do by simple watching. Palpatine lived because he was punk who lied and minipulated because he did not HAVE enough physical power to slay countless jedi on his own. Luke defeated him. Mace beat him and he DID and canical resources say just how he did it so stop trying to argue it. Some Sith lord there. Yoda faught to a draw. Kreia could minipulate and see surther into the furture than palps. Revan was wiser and had MORE POWER. He could do everything palps could do but he could also FIGHT which palps had to have other people do it for him. Palpatine in the books was stronger than movie palpatine and more powerful than most sith I admit but movies are cannon for the most part. Now how in blue hell you gunna argue palps can beat Nihilus. He CAN'T and to be whoever WINS is more powerful. To destroy is POWER to me so however you view Nihilus power is up to you but he would win. Palps never showed us nothing impressive except hide, play people and have people whip his ass for him. He took out WEAK pethetic jedi quickly other than that. OMG amazing!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

And hey, story wise Darth Nihilus would have to be one of the weakest top foes, as his draining ability was useless against the Exile because of his wound in the Force status, and without that, well, considering his void in the Force status, was pretty weak, as the game play most likely reflected, hence his easy beat status in TSL.

The draining ability was only useless to the exile and his other skills were still insane story wise. Storywise Exile needed two part members by him and visas to dirupt him and weaken him. Nihilus exhausted himself which was the only reason why he was so weak when he faced three incredible warriars and still made them canically struggle very hard.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Know this to. I don't care what GL says. He can't back it up. I could make a movie about godzilla vs ant man and say something like oh ant man is canically more powerful and it STILL WOULDN'T BE TRUE. That's pretty much all lucas is saying when he says that. Palps is an ANT to Nihilus who could cosume ALL LIFE AND DESTROY IT ALL at some point if he wasn't stoped kreia said. NOW HOW [is] palps gunna compare to him. Comparing simple food to a planet devourer. Ant vs Godzilla. That's what it IS and what it WOULD BE. PEROID! Anyone can talk. Yes GL has a mouth. Doesn't make what he says true. The true power is what the acomplished through their stories. WHAT THEY DID. What the were able to do and all logic and fact points to sidious being an average dark lord of the sith (above average minipulater) in a time when much knowledge was lost and destroyed over thousands of years.

 

Edit: keep the language PG, please.

Edited June 26, 2007 by metadigital
profanity

[OverPowered Godzilla (OPG)]

Tell me this, if Nihilus became the inhuman planet eating monster that he was in TSL simply because he was a normal force-sensitive fella who became so powerful, then why is Darth Sidious, not Nihilus', canonically the most powerful Sith Lord of all time, as Sidious could not drain the life of an entire planet?

 

I'd like to know where it says that Sidious was the most powerful Sith Lord, I'd also like to know if you mean pure strength in the force or if your also including the power he could draw from other sources (ie; Allies).

 

If you mean most Powerful in the force your wrong-that would be Vader-at least before he lost most of his limbs-since he had a midiclorian count higher than any recorded before. Plus Sidious tells Yoda that Vader will become more powerful than both of them-indicating that Vaders strength in the force was greater than his masters.

 

If you mean power including allies etc then Sidious would indeed be the most powerful Sith Lord ever, since he could call on the resorces of the entire Galactic Empire at will.

 

Yea probably what GL means anyway. **** palps had a death star. And just because someone says most powerful sith lord does NOT MEAN most powerful sith lord EVER compared to all other side lords. Also for all we know the ancient sith lords weren't palpatines type of sith lord and palpatine may have been one of these ture sith so him being most powerful would not apply in that case.

[seejai]

palp had alot of resources bc he was manipulative but i think if he had to duel a sith from the old republic (like sion or something) hed probably lose bc most of his "power" is his acting and manipulative skills (which are nonetheless very useful)

[Darth Mortis]

The Sith Lords after Darth Bane were different to those that came before-instead of acting openly and attempting to take over the Republic from outside, they acted from behind the scenes and attempted to take over from within. Palpatine would be the prime example of this type of Sith-he used deception backed by force rather than force backed by deception.

 

It would be hard, therefore, to state that he was more powerful in some respects than Sith Lords before Darth Bane-he'd run rings around them when it came to concocting plans and keeping everyone guessing, but they'd flatten him if it came down to a show of strength one on one simply because they'd be more used to that type of conflict. (As evidenced by the fact that Palpatine was powerful enough to not only hide himself from the Jedi so that they never realised he was force-sensitive, let alone a Sith Lord, but also dampen the Jedi's connection to the force for several years at the same time. Yet for all this power he had real problems dealing with Yoda when it came down to a one on one fight).

 

True Sith were a specific species, and if memory serves had red skin and tenticles on their faces. As a species True Sith are extinct (at least by the time of the clone wars) so Palpatine wouldn't be a true Sith in this context, but could be considered heir to their pholosophy. Having said that True Sith did interbreed with humans, so its not impossible that Palpatine had a true Sith in his family tree-admittidly this would be at least 4500+ years or more ago...assuming LA doesn't decide that some of them went into hiding somewhere.

[DeathScepter]

Palptine like Maul is a true Sith by Religion not by blood.

[Guest The Architect]

Darth Mortis, I can't authenticate to you that Darth Sidious is canonically the most powerful Sith Lord of them all. I mean I could, as I could provide you a link to an old SW thread here where Wild Storm posted a scan of a page from an officially licensed LA book which stated that Darth Sidious is canonically the most powerful Sith Lord of all time, but sorry, I can't be bothered enough to. Hopefully my reliable word is enough for you.

 

Anyhow, I'm convinced what Lucas meant by power was his aptitude to defeat an opponent in combat, because not even Anakin surpassed Sidious, in spite of the fact he achieved 80% of his potential, which is still a reasonably high figure. That, plus the fact he came a draw with Yoda, which more than one person has confirmed Lucas said was the most powerful Jedi ever before post-RotJ Luke Skywalker, suggests what he meant by power is his strength in the Force.

 

The draining ability was only useless to the exile and his other skills were still insane story wise. Storywise Exile needed two part members by him and visas to dirupt him and weaken him. Nihilus exhausted himself which was the only reason why he was so weak when he faced three incredible warriars and still made them canically struggle very hard.

 

We have no idea

Edited June 26, 2007 by The Architect

[Omelette]

You're comparing Sith Lords of at least 1000 years separation between them. You can't equate them on the same level here. They come from different times and different situations and circumstances.

[Xard]

Well, you can since barely anything ever changes in SW Universe

[Darth Mortis]

Darth Mortis, I can't authenticate to you that Darth Sidious is canonically the most powerful Sith Lord of them all. I mean I could, as I could provide you a link to an old SW thread here where Wild Storm posted a scan of a page from an officially licensed LA book which stated that Darth Sidious is canonically the most powerful Sith Lord of all time, but sorry, I can't be bothered enough to. Hopefully my reliable word is enough for you.

 

Anyhow, I'm convinced what Lucas meant by power was his aptitude to defeat an opponent in combat, because not even Anakin surpassed Sidious, in spite of the fact he achieved 80% of his potential, which is still a reasonably high figure. That, plus the fact he came a draw with Yoda, which more than one person has confirmed Lucas said was the most powerful Jedi ever before post-RotJ Luke Skywalker, suggests what he meant by power is his strength in the Force.

 

Fair enough, I wasn't really questioning your word as such, I was just curious as to what 'Most Powerful' meant in regards to Sith Lords-That is if it implied only their strength in the force or included power from other sources. I guess the Sith would say thats the same thing-ie that strength in the force dictates how much power you can get from other sources.

 

Know this to. I don't care what GL says. He can't back it up. I could make a movie about godzilla vs ant man and say something like oh ant man is canically more powerful and it STILL WOULDN'T BE TRUE. That's pretty much all lucas is saying when he says that. Palps is an ANT to Nihilus who could cosume ALL LIFE AND DESTROY IT ALL at some point if he wasn't stoped kreia said. NOW HOW [is] palps gunna compare to him. Comparing simple food to a planet devourer. Ant vs Godzilla. That's what it IS and what it WOULD BE. PEROID! Anyone can talk. Yes GL has a mouth. Doesn't make what he says true. The true power is what the acomplished through their stories. WHAT THEY DID. What the were able to do and all logic and fact points to sidious being an average dark lord of the sith (above average minipulater) in a time when much knowledge was lost and destroyed over thousands of years.

 

No, the ant man is canonically more powerful, because you

Edited June 26, 2007 by Darth Mortis

[Xard]

"although it could be argued that he/she decided not to do so after killing Malak."

 

Revan is LS canonically

[Darth Mortis]

"although it could be argued that he/she decided not to do so after killing Malak."

 

Revan is LS canonically

 

Ooops, my bad. What I intended to say was 'Although it could be argued that he/she decided not to do so, if you play Revan as DS and ignore cannon, after killing Malak'. *Hangs head in shame*

Edited June 26, 2007 by Darth Mortis

[OverPowered Godzilla (OPG)]

We have no idea

[Darth Mortis]

The video game people CREATED these characters so THEY have JUST as much say as GL because GL was the moron who ALLOWED them to create their own characters to have them ANYWAY they wanted them. That's like marvel saying I said the hulk can beat SM cause it's canical and DC saying no superman would win and that's canical cause we created super man. TWO DIFFERENT creators get it?

 

Bad example. Spider Man and Superman are owned by Marvel comics and DC comics respectively, which are different companies. Marvel could say Spidey will mop the floor with Superman, but if they printed it in a comic they'd get sued for copyright infringment.

 

George Lucas on the otherhand owns the entire Starwars franchise-thats everything from the films, the games, the coffee mug even the starwars bedsheets some people have. If he says Palpatine is the most powerful Sith lord ever that is cannon, anyone saying diffently in a story will be asked to change it. If they don't they will not be able to release the result as a licenced product/story without getting sued.

 

visas will say what is really happening and that he is STILL to powerful after he exhausted most of his power

 

Visas was attempting to further weaken Nillius at the time. Her comment was about this action, which was hers not the Exiles, and means that he was too powerful for her.

 

THROUGH hiding like a punk and minipulating. He didn't even come close to having to power of acomplishing this through brute force which other sith easily could have in a time like this.

 

The Sith attempted the direct approch several times......and lost to the Jedi, proving that brute strength alone wasn't enough.

Edited June 26, 2007 by Darth Mortis

[Darth Mortis]

So yes he took out the republic and MOST of the jedi but had OTHERS DO IT FOR HIM get it?

 

So? Controling others is a form of power. By the same logic you'd have to dismiss all Sith Lords-including Revan-as weak because they used others to acomplish their goals, they did after all fight the Jedi with other Sith, armies etc, rather than attempting to kill all the Jedi on their own. Even your beloved Nillius attempted to use Visas to kill the Exile rather than doing so himself.

 

Most the jedi were weak.

 

Due in part to Palpatine clouding the force with the darkside

 

Politics were messed up.

 

Due to Palpatine playing groups off on one another.

 

Darth Revan didn't because he wasn't interested he had a different goal an that was to stop the true sith.

 

That *seems* to have been his long term goal (Its not clear that the threat he was responding to really was the true Sith at this point. We'll have to wait for K3 to find out, we hope). But in the short term he was still trying to take over the Republic and get rid of the Jedi to accomplish that, and he failed.

 

Not only that but there were far more forces working against him and he still crushed everyone in his path which palaptine never did he hid and was everyones secret allie which he had fighting each other.

 

Palaptine did crush all opposition, for a while. His problem was that he created more enemies in the process-the last one being Vader.

 

Kreia could of minipulated as palps could but had a different plan.

 

Manipulated yes, I'm not so sure she would have had the skills (or inclination) to get into politics.

 

That's nice. Hiding isn't power. It's being a punk.

 

When you are one Sith Lord against hundreds (maybe thousands) of Jedi its called being smart.

 

On straight out warfare against another sith lord where there is nothing but the ancient sith lord and palpatine palaptine would be slaughtered.

 

Yes, I said this in another post. Palpatine relyed on deception backed up by force, while Sith Lords before Darth Bane relyed on force backed by deception. In a battle of wits Palpatine would win, in a test of pure strength in a fight he'd lose against one of the older Sith Lords. But this would be less to do with their power than it would be the lack of experience Palpatine had in that type of conflict.

[OverPowered Godzilla (OPG)]

Bad example. Spider Man and Superman are owned by Marvel comics and DC comics respectively, which are different companies. Marvel could say Spidey will mop the floor with Superman, but if they printed it in a comic they'd get sued for copyright infringment.

 

George Lucas on the otherhand owns the entire Starwars franchise-thats everything from the films, the games, the coffee mug even the starwars bedsheets some people have. If he says Palpatine is the most powerful Sith lord ever that is cannon, anyone saying diffently in a story will be asked to change it. If they don't they will not be able to release the result as a licenced product/story without getting sued.

 

What he said still made ZERO sense. No way in all logic that palpatine could BEAT nihulis. He's wrong. Yeah you heard me right. He either needs to go and rewrite the old history of the sith to make palps more powerful or except the fact that he ALLOWED creations of more power sith (mabey a different type of sith than palpatine though).

 

 

 

 

Visas was attempting to further weaken Nillius at the time. Her comment was about this action, which was hers not the Exiles, and means that he was too powerful for her.

 

Either way your dialogue options are something like stay with me we can stop him....................somehow or visas your his link disrupt it. A weakened Nihulis gave a crew of three powerful warriars an good fight including the exile who was one of the most powerful force sensitives ever.

 

 

The Sith attempted the direct approch several times......and lost to the Jedi, proving that brute strength alone wasn't enough

 

Against more powerful jedi who had many more abilities and could even be strengthened when they workinG numbers. Battle meditation. While I think jedi like Mace windu and Yoda were equally powerful as many jedi master council members of the old republic on average the old jedi were stronger and ever stronger than ever when working together in numbers. Not only this but there were many more jedi and for the record nihulis killed thousands mabey millions of force sensitives INSTANTLY a feat which palps can't even dream of and in a respect he killed the jedi as palps FORCES did because yoda and obi-won lived and two other force sensitives (leia and luke) where as only three jedi from the old republic survived because they fled. Nilhulis did this ALL by himself through TRUE power and brute force and not some punk ass way of hiding behind someone else and having them do it for you such as palps.

 

 

 

 

So? Controling others is a form of power. By the same logic you'd have to dismiss all Sith Lords-including Revan-as weak because they used others to acomplish their goals, they did after all fight the Jedi with other Sith, armies etc, rather than attempting to kill all the Jedi on their own. Even your beloved Nillius attempted to use Visas to kill the Exile rather than doing so himself.

 

But it is NOT HIS power. I am talking about if palps were to fight ONE ON ONE and ancient sith lord he would be in for s surprise. Let it also be noted that Revan converted ALOT more jedi than palps ever could hope to. Yet with all his dark jedi he was still not some punk who sits in a chair and punks out and has others fight for him. Revan leaded the fights and faught in them and conquered all. As the jedi masters have said Revans power is unlimited (figure of speach but still)

 

 

Due in part to Palpatine clouding the force with the darkside

 

No because the jedi were just plain weak. They did not posses the ancient knoqledge to know many lost force powers during the jedi civil war. They all were terrible.

 

 

Due to Palpatine playing groups off on one another

 

And that is not a feat of HIS power according to me but others.

 

That *seems* to have been his long term goal (Its not clear that the threat he was responding to really was the true Sith at this point. We'll have to wait for K3 to find out, we hope). But in the short term he was still trying to take over the Republic and get rid of the Jedi to accomplish that, and he failed.

 

The jedi were stronger, the republic had more people, lots more people were involved in the wars including the mandalorians and there is battle meditation that changes everything to take into consideration.

 

 

Manipulated yes, I'm not so sure she would have had the skills (or inclination) to get into politics

 

Mabey not but who knows and no doubt she could create any army.

 

When you are one Sith Lord against hundreds (maybe thousands) of Jedi its called being smart.

 

Exile wouldn't run. Nilhulis wouldn't. Sion wouldn't. And intellegence is not POWER.

 

 

Yes, I said this in another post. Palpatine relyed on deception backed up by force, while Sith Lords before Darth Bane relyed on force backed by deception. In a battle of wits Palpatine would win, in a test of pure strength in a fight he'd lose against one of the older Sith Lords. But this would be less to do with their power than it would be the lack of experience Palpatine had in that type of conflict

 

So palpatine on his own right isn't as powerful as everyone makes it out to be. He is arrogant and over confident and when a few jedi came in (well mainly windu's doing) the defeated him together.