World of Warcraft

[Cantousent]

Why another World of Warcraft thread? Because it

[Tale]

Short winded rant flaming World of Warcraft and anyone who plays it as significantly inferior human beings based on shallow abstract criteria I can't qualify nor support having never played the game.

Edited May 28, 2007 by Tale

[Farbautisonn]

I quit wow. Having levelled 1 toon to 70 and a horde of toons to 30-50 ish I got really tired of it. I played pvp because regardless of how you look at it, having someone out to kill you just for the sport adds to the sense of paranoia and immersion. But as I said, I quit.

 

Now to look at the why;

 

It's not an rpg. There is no roleplaying in the game. Even on the RPPVP servers there are dorks that pester people with 1337 talk. There are no original quests, its all fed-ex and stuff I've done since Everquest. Game Master events are scarce and usually generated around "oh look, ubha mob_20673943 is in Zone_847 and its killing everyone" events. The world is static and there is ZERO player influence on the world. In some respects its even WORSE than EQ dispite the better gamemechanics and graphics. I hate kids who talk 1337, doesnt give a rats arse about anyone but themselves, and who are more focused on watching a female ragdoll do a dance. WoW has these people in abundance. On teamspeak/vent, people talk **** and ****e thinking themselves to be really adult and mature because they can swear like a dockworker from NY. People don't listen if they are in raids and will often be right bitches when it comes to starting drama. There are few if any (major) guilds that are more than conglomerates of lootwhores who basically traded their real life for pixels on a screen.

 

I'm 33. I have kids of my own. I have money to spend and I don't need to ask anyone permission for what I buy and when I buy it. When I turn on my machine, I want to be entertained and have fun with the few rpg dorks that I know and love. We don't have time to meet up and take 20 hour pnp marathons like we used to because we all have girlfriends, kids, work ect. to maintain. But sometimes we meet up online and go through a nice little adventure on NwN with our facist and painfully original DM (who doesn't have kids or anthing in his life that can tie him down). However it would be nice to have a REAL mmoRPG. A persistant world where we could log in and have fun for a few hours here and there, leave our mark and come back to find it there.

 

Everquest tried something that I actually liked. They created a premium server. A place where you payed 50ish bucks a month to play but where you were guarenteeded 24/7 hour GM service, a place where I after two years of roleplaying finally got rewarded with regular GM events and even personal quests. I prayed to a shaved hedgehog named "Frank" and an avatar of "Frank" started appearing and started random oddball quests for people. I had an impact on the world. I had created something in a world that usually was just about destroying. My mates and myself found that to be immensely amusing. We would /pray to Frank and Franks avatar would sometimes send us off to some monty phyton'esque quest. It was fun as hell even if we got no real "loot" out of it. (I quit the server when I had to take care of the psyco girlfriend from hell. Now that she has gone on to the next dumb bastard, I have more time on my hands).

 

Stuff like THAT is missing completely from mmorpgs. I'm not the hack and slash kind of guy. Really none of us are anymore. We want something that forces us to be as cunning as Edmund Blackadder instead of mindlessly spamming a spell icon. We don't mind paying for it either. We have decent jobs, we have money to spend and we want originality and service. NWN was a godsent for us. But still... Having a true mmoRPG would be even more amusing.

 

-Farb

[metadigital]

not such a foam-speckled rant as the title suggests

All you are saying is that the innate human interaction of societies will out, even in an artificial construct (ha ha: matrix) like a MMORPG.

 

Which is hardly a rant.

 

You are more ranting (if at all, and it's more a British cousin to a rant, a polite almost-finger-pointing-type, stern-look, complaints-department-where-you-aren't-sure-you-will-get-your-money-back-and-you-might-settle-for-a-replacement sort of commentary) about gamers who have a knee-jerk dislike for the MMORPG.

 

Perhaps if the WoW designers added some more opportunities for PnP interaction, I'm getting from your statement, then the game would raise to the next level, towards a verisimilitude of our reality.

 

I quit WoW ...

why[:]

 

It's not an rpg ... it would be nice to have a REAL mmoRPG. A persistant world where we could log in and have fun for a few hours here and there, leave our mark and come back to find it there.

 

Everquest tried something that I actually liked. They created a premium server. A place where you payed 50ish bucks a month to play but where you were guarenteeded 24/7 hour GM service, a place where I after two years of roleplaying finally got rewarded with regular GM events and even personal quests. I prayed to a shaved hedgehog named "Frank" and an avatar of "Frank" started appearing and started random oddball quests for people. I had an impact on the world. I had created something in a world that usually was just about destroying. My mates and myself found that to be immensely amusing.

THAT is brilliant, and a very good point; of all the commentaries on Massively Multiplayer Online games, I don't recall anyone stating this quite so eloquently (if at all).

We would /pray to Frank and Franks avatar would sometimes send us off to some monty phyton'esque quest. It was fun as hell even if we got no real "loot" out of it.

Excerrent.

(I quit the server when I had to take care of the psyco girlfriend from hell. Now that she has gone on to the next dumb bastard, I have more time on my hands).

(Condolences.)

Stuff like THAT is missing completely from mmorpgs. I'm not the hack and slash kind of guy. Really none of us are anymore. We want something that forces us to be as cunning as Edmund Blackadder instead of mindlessly spamming a spell icon. We don't mind paying for it either. We have decent jobs, we have money to spend and we want originality and service. NWN was a godsent for us. But still... Having a true mmoRPG would be even more amusing.

Now, if only we could implement this ...

[Hurlshort]

I quit wow. Having levelled 1 toon to 70 and a horde of toons to 30-50 ish I got really tired of it. I played pvp because regardless of how you look at it, having someone out to kill you just for the sport adds to the sense of paranoia and immersion. But as I said, I quit.

 

Now to look at the why;

 

[general complaints]

 

I agree with your complaints. I'd love to see a game where we leave more of a mark. NWN has done that a bit with DM's able to change stuff in PW's, but that's not necessarily massive.

 

But I question you saying "I quit". You played the game to completion. Sure, MMO's don't really end, but you put hundreds of hours in. Eventually, you will reach a point where the game loses the magic. You seem reasonable, so I doubt you were simply torturing yourself by playing WoW. You had a great run, so why knock it?

 

We all want that game where we affect the world in a meaningful way. But that's not viable at this time as a business model. It requires too many extra hands and it's not tested whether a bunch of folks are willing to pay the $50. Do you know if that EQ server did well? Did it thrive financially? Because those are the questions that will determine whether we will see more of it. As of now, WoW is successful, so it won't be changing much.

 

Oh yeah, go play LotR Online. It's the new WoW, and I love it.

[@\NightandtheShape/@]

I'll just leave the Crack heads to their crack.

[Diogo Ribeiro]

Considering that developers can't possibly create unique - as opposed to proceduraly generated or random - large scale content that simultaneously adapts to player choice and presents a concise main narrative, how difficult would it be to implement a system where player decisions in a gameworld were instantly recognized and actually left a deep impact?

 

Let's say you're traipsing around this month's RPG flavor, which is released through episodic content, and that at given points during the episodes you're confronted with decisions with considerable consequences, possibly at the end of each chapter. Players reaching the end stage of every episode would submit savegame information to the developer, who would then simply alter the previously or ongoing design template for the game and send it back, so that upon loading the next episode, the save file would alter whatever needed altering in the next episode's template. Basically, the game would have an inbuilt system of possibilities which would fetch the relevant set of outcomes from a database and edited the game status accordingly in realtime.

 

Alternatively, how possible would it be to have this function during gameplay without requiring too much from the engine? If it were to download content from an online database while people are playing, it would likely require mucho resources. Maybe devs could build such a database and have the game load it locally? Maybe even update the database with added possibilities.

 

All of this probably means ****e but the gist of it is simulating the gameplay mechanics Eldar enjoys in MMORPGs and fitting them into a singleplayer CRPG, without it requiring investment in a social clique limited to a hit or miss social environment. So, gah.

[Diamond]

Let's say you're traipsing around this month's RPG flavor, which is released through episodic content, and that at given points during the episodes you're confronted with decisions with considerable consequences, possibly at the end of each chapter. Players reaching the end stage of every episode would submit savegame information to the developer, who would then simply alter the previously or ongoing design template for the game and send it back, so that upon loading the next episode, the save file would alter whatever needed altering in the next episode's template. Basically, the game would have an inbuilt system of possibilities which would fetch the relevant set of outcomes from a database and edited the game status accordingly in realtime.

Sounds a bit awkward from a technical standpoint. Why not having a saved game file store state variables and thus achieving the same effect of carrying over the decisions of a previous episode? The next episode will then pick them up and use them in scripts and dialogues. Unless, of course, you want to cut development costs by producing a sequel episode tailored to N most popular submitted state combinations. Otherwise the same amount of effort is spent on implementing the possible story combinations, but the distribution of it is pushed online. You are not saying that developers should watch every single incoming savegame real-time and implement an appropriate set of outcomes, are you?

 

Alternatively, how possible would it be to have this function during gameplay without requiring too much from the engine? If it were to download content from an online database while people are playing, it would likely require mucho resources. Maybe devs could build such a database and have the game load it locally? Maybe even update the database with added possibilities.

That didn't make much sense technically at all, or I simply did not comprehend it. "Load it locally"? What is the point of a locally stored game data in such kind of a system then? The content still has to come from somewhere - either from optical media or be predownloaded (in which case you still have to pay for the same bandwidth).

[kirottu]

He might have been one of the ones who killed me when I attacked the crossroads.

 

LOL Xroads ganking.

[WILL THE ALMIGHTY]

Weird how people go over-dramatic with WoW and all its benefits and problems. Its just a game.

 

Random rant on the monthly WoW fee:

 

Besides, I hate MMORPGs, but thats just me.

And again, why would you want to pay 240$ a year for a video game? Biggest scam ever, if you ask me. Thats what WoW is to me: a scam designed to get millions of dollars of profit each month... Who cares about the quality of the game? 20$ a month is still ridiculous.

 

Anyways, my two cents.

[Cantousent]

He might have been one of the ones who killed me when I attacked the crossroads.

 

LOL Xroads ganking.

 

In my defence, someone asked me for help while I was in the area. I didn't know why I was attacking the crossroads, but I helped. It was quite fun, but ultimately I think attacking hordies is a waste of my time. I prefer PvE. The fact that Farb "played pvp because regardless of how you look at it, having someone out to kill you just for the sport adds to the sense of paranoia and immersion" is all well and good, but I don't care about paranoia. It's essentially a game that I enjoy playing with real life friends. It's something we can play together even though we live sometimes thousands of miles distance.

 

That said, I have had my share of PvP, but I'm much more likely to sign onto an RP server than a PvP one. We play on Gilneas, which is a normal server, because most of the members don't want to play PvP. I'm tempted to join an RPPvP server, though.

[Cantousent]

Weird how people go over-dramatic with WoW and all its benefits and problems. Its just a game.

 

Why have a position on games at all, then? Why post on a board if you have no interest?

 

Hell, this forum is the game I play most often, and it's free.

 

The point is, we discuss games here. In the Computer and Console forum of the Obsidian boards, we discuss games. ...And if you think folks are beyond the pale in regards to WoW, don't participate in Console discussions at all. Those are scary.

[Hurlshort]

Why have a position on games at all, then? Why post on a board if you have no interest?

 

Hell, this forum is the game I play most often, and it's free.

 

The point is, we discuss games here. In the Computer and Console forum of the Obsidian boards, we discuss games. ...And if you think folks are beyond the pale in regards to WoW, don't participate in Console discussions at all. Those are scary.

 

QFT

 

You are on an obscure game developer's message board discussing RPG's.

[metadigital]

Let's say you're traipsing around this month's RPG flavor, which is released through episodic content, and that at given points during the episodes you're confronted with decisions with considerable consequences, possibly at the end of each chapter. Players reaching the end stage of every episode would submit savegame information to the developer, who would then simply alter the previously or ongoing design template for the game and send it back, so that upon loading the next episode, the save file would alter whatever needed altering in the next episode's template. Basically, the game would have an inbuilt system of possibilities which would fetch the relevant set of outcomes from a database and edited the game status accordingly in realtime.

Sounds a bit awkward from a technical standpoint. Why not having a saved game file store state variables and thus achieving the same effect of carrying over the decisions of a previous episode? The next episode will then pick them up and use them in scripts and dialogues. Unless, of course, you want to cut development costs by producing a sequel episode tailored to N most popular submitted state combinations. Otherwise the same amount of effort is spent on implementing the possible story combinations, but the distribution of it is pushed online. You are not saying that developers should watch every single incoming savegame real-time and implement an appropriate set of outcomes, are you?

 

Alternatively, how possible would it be to have this function during gameplay without requiring too much from the engine? If it were to download content from an online database while people are playing, it would likely require mucho resources. Maybe devs could build such a database and have the game load it locally? Maybe even update the database with added possibilities.

That didn't make much sense technically at all, or I simply did not comprehend it. "Load it locally"? What is the point of a locally stored game data in such kind of a system then? The content still has to come from somewhere - either from optical media or be predownloaded (in which case you still have to pay for the same bandwidth).

Just have a series of variables for each PC. (The games are basically graphical front ends to databases, anyway.) If a PC redoes a quest, overwrite the result on the last value of the variable.

[Farbautisonn]

Thing is... Wow and other mmorpgs could be more RP oriented and it prolly wouldnt cost blizzard anything.

 

Have regular players petition to be Ingame Quest Masters. (or have a quest person rank system, Apprentice, Journeyman, Master). Let them have a building where they can sit and horse around with Ideas for quests and then go off and do player initiated quests. Let them have a small pool of crap, fun or shiny items that they can use as rewards. Make the items redundant but fun. Make the items unique or usefull in tradeskills. Just give them something. Have a poster outside where participants in the quests could comment on the quest they were just on.

 

You prolly wouldnt even have to pay these QM's. They would be happy to make WoW a funnier place. You could hand them some prize for making it to the top of the QM' system, but really I don't even think that would be nessesary. It would be fun to have some massive prizes for being the best event maker on the server(s) but again, appealing to the pockebook of people who makes games seems to be the way to go. Better game, more customers, better return business, little to no hassle with the Quest Masters ect. It's an Idea anyway.

 

-Farb

[Rosbjerg]

I played Tales in the Desert for some time - it's a MMO that focus entirely on players creating the world - all buildings are player made, the minor "quests" were issued by other players (though only done by agreeing to do something for something - if they have something you need etc.)..

 

Some where miners, if they had settled in an area with a mine - some were farmers, others were builders/carpenters. The only problem with the game was that it lacked a true purpose - there was an overall mission and important at that - but it was distant and required that every player in the game fufilled a part in the greater whole - which felt a bit too abstract.

 

But I was really inspired by the game, as it focused entirely on players to create a dynamic world - also there was no combat what so ever - which of course meant that people with an iching trigger-happy finger steered quite far away from the game (bonus in my book). But as I said, the game unfortunately lacked a real purpose, which was why I ultimately dropped it - I mean, after harvesting my greenhouses for who-knows-what-time, I missed some deeper overarching story to drive me forward.

[Farbautisonn]

LOL... that would be too "in caracter" for me, Im afraid. I'd to wish for goblins to come by and sack my farm so I could have a legit reason for killing something.

 

-Farb

[Tale]

Thing is... Wow and other mmorpgs could be more RP oriented and it prolly wouldnt cost blizzard anything.

 

Have regular players petition to be Ingame Quest Masters. (or have a quest person rank system, Apprentice, Journeyman, Master). Let them have a building where they can sit and horse around with Ideas for quests and then go off and do player initiated quests. Let them have a small pool of crap, fun or shiny items that they can use as rewards. Make the items redundant but fun. Make the items unique or usefull in tradeskills. Just give them something. Have a poster outside where participants in the quests could comment on the quest they were just on.

 

You prolly wouldnt even have to pay these QM's. They would be happy to make WoW a funnier place. You could hand them some prize for making it to the top of the QM' system, but really I don't even think that would be nessesary. It would be fun to have some massive prizes for being the best event maker on the server(s) but again, appealing to the pockebook of people who makes games seems to be the way to go. Better game, more customers, better return business, little to no hassle with the Quest Masters ect. It's an Idea anyway.

 

-Farb

Oh yes, give a group of unaccountable people power (even if it is just rewards). That'll do anything.

 

Or it'll turn into them just favoring their friends, which is what it would explicitly do.

[Farbautisonn]

I'm naive. :D I think it might work.

 

-Farb

[Rosbjerg]

People could be banned for misusing their power?.. I think it's an interesting idea, player regulated worlds are however hard to govern at best. And the potentiel for largescale misuse would deter most developers, which is understandable.

[Farbautisonn]

People could be banned for misusing their power?.. I think it's an interesting idea, player regulated worlds are however hard to govern at best. And the potentiel for largescale misuse would deter most developers, which is understandable.

 

Or people who are QM's could be forced to retire their toons as soon as they were accepted into the QM program. Or other servers than the native one could be assigned.

 

I fully realize that the potential for misuse is there. But potential for misuse in any genre is omnipresent. But I am hopefull. NWN would not be as fun if it wasnt for the people who actually take the time to make modules and DM in their spare time. Even for complete arse strangers like in the ALFA (a land far away) network. If people will do that of their own free will without getting paid, I have some hope that it would not be misused.

 

-Farb

[Tale]

If the people in accountable and paid positions for EVE online can't avoid favoring their friends and creating an "old boy's club," I don't see how people in unpaid and unaccountable positions can be even suspected as potentially avoiding it.

 

Just a single corrupt or even simply overzealous "QM" could ruin an entire server's experience.

[Farbautisonn]

Maybe. Possibly. But it's an Idea. I haven't got a better one right of the top of my head. Do You ?

 

-Farb

[Tale]

Maybe. Possibly. But it's an Idea. I haven't got a better one right of the top of my head. Do You ?

 

-Farb

An understanding that World of Warcraft can't really undergo drastic changes for free and that maybe it doesn't need to be more RP oriented aby more than Diablo does.

Edited May 28, 2007 by Tale

[Farbautisonn]

If it wanted to keep my business, it would have to. Now I realize that the millions clicking diablo and wow, the people at blizzard ect, arent going to give a good god damn that I am gone but, I can still dream of an MMORPG where they would want to cater to my "needs".

 

-Farb