Conan, The Nerfed

[Rhomal]

Strauss takes a look at the evolution, and nerfing, of the barbarian class an cries "What would Conan do?". Here is a snip:

 

Now from my understanding Gygax had planned on editing (and thus fixing several of the over powered classes in Unearth Arcana) and incorporating UA in the 2nd edition ruleset. Before work started however, is when he was ousted at TSR and the new team that came in decided there was too many issues with UA and scrapped in completely.

 

Barbarians made a comeback as a

Edited January 26, 2007 by Rhomal

[Tale]

I was expecting something more well researched. The article seems almost wholly anecdotal. In fact, I'm going to go on a limb and say it is completely anecdotal.

 

What brought all this up in my mind is my most recent game in NWN 2, playing a human barbarian using the 3.5E rules. While the barbarian seems to have a little bit more bite then its 2E counterpart, it is not by much. Plus the mystique is somewhat lacking for the class in the 3.5 version. For example, a barbarian running around in chain mail armor? Taking no penalty for covered head to toe in magic? That does not seem right to me. Plus Kelgar seems to be kicking arse more often then my barbarian.. Shouldn

[Rhomal]

"well researched"?

 

This is D&D not a thesis on quantum physics. Just saying.

 

I think ones own playing experience with PnP and the computer version is enough to voice ones opinion on the matter, but perhaps thats just me.

 

As for Kelgar, hes a fighter class, I am a barbarian. In theory tow to toe I SHOULD be more a offensive warrior vs. him who should be more well rounded. That was the point in the comparison.

Edited January 26, 2007 by Rhomal

[Gorgon]

fascinating

[Volourn]

Barbarians are not underpowered. And, Barbarians can stand toe to toe with fighters any day of the week.

[aVENGER]

Interesting article, though I always thought Barbarians were one of the more balanced classes in 3.5 D&D.

 

BTW, the PHB II offers an interesting way to further tweak the class by opting to use Berserker Strength instead of Rage.

[Pop]

And, Barbarians can stand toe to toe with fighters any day of the week.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

My warlock could beat up your dad.

[Volourn]

Beating up scummy piece of crap corpses is always fun!

[Darque]

I think this might be more in lines with the pen and paper board since it seems to focus more on the PnP aspects of the class, so I'm moving it there.

[Dark_Raven]

Beating up  scummy piece of crap corpses is always fun!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Nah, it gets boring after a while.

[J.E. Sawyer]

Barbarians in NWN2 will always have more hit points than a fighter with the same level and con. When raging, barbarians gain even more.

 

Khelgar starts the game with 17 Str, 16 Con. If you have him using two-handed weapons and put even one more point in his Str stat, he's going to do a lot of damage, no question. And weapon specialization will always give fighters an edge in melee damage against a non-raging barbarian, but Andy Woo did make an exception for barbarian's rage: it always stacks with all other bonuses. The +2 to damage a fighter gets with a single weapon type becomes +2 to all melee damage when a barbarian rages.

 

I'm also kind of put off by some contradictory ideas in the article. If barbarians are in such dire straits, why complain that they can wear chain mail or use magic items? Chain shirts are probably the best armor in 3E/v3.5, and since they are light armor, barbarians that wear them can still make use of their increased movement rate.

 

I do think that barbarians in 3E/v3.5 are a lot different from the Unearthed Arcana barbarians, but I think they're pretty tough anyway.

[Rhomal]

Barbarians in NWN2 will always have more hit points than a fighter with the same level and con.  When raging, barbarians gain even more.

 

Khelgar starts the game with 17 Str, 16 Con.  If you have him using two-handed weapons and put even one more point in his Str stat, he's going to do a lot of damage, no question.  And weapon specialization will always give fighters an edge in melee damage against a non-raging barbarian, but Andy Woo did make an exception for barbarian's rage: it always stacks with all other bonuses.  The +2 to damage a fighter gets with a single weapon type becomes +2 to all melee damage when a barbarian rages.

 

I'm also kind of put off by some contradictory ideas in the article.  If barbarians are in such dire straits, why complain that they can wear chain mail or use magic items?  Chain shirts are probably the best armor in 3E/v3.5, and since they are light armor, barbarians that wear them can still make use of their increased movement rate.

 

I do think that barbarians in 3E/v3.5 are a lot different from the Unearthed Arcana barbarians, but I think they're pretty tough anyway.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Some valid comments, let me explain. My issues with the barbarian using chain mail and magic weapons is two fold. I feel removing those limitations from the 1E version took away some of the role playing elements of the class, as well as the natural disposition of the class. Who thinks of typical savage barbarian in full chain? Hide armor or leather or perhaps a chain shirt sure. But anything more just does not seem, in my mind, a image of your living off the land barbarian.

 

You have a valid point about Khelgar. Even though he is a warrior class he is a very trumped up warrior class high on offense abilities. I should have used a better example in hindsight. That aside, I still have to say I feel the barbarian has watered down to a point where it is more a PrC then a class in of itself.

[Walsingham]

My char in NWN2 started as a barbarian (pointless roleplaying on my part) and then became a priest. She rages periodically and although bloody annoying it can be quite effective.

[@\NightandtheShape/@]

Barbarians can be extremely effective, sometimes more so when you mix them with other classes, Barb/Rogue or Barb/Druid for example, but even alone, they're able to be huge hitters, more so than a fighter, raging barbarians with great axes do insane damage. Nothing is more powerful in melee.

[Walsingham]

This reminds me: what bloody use are bards in crpgs?

[greylord]

Well, can't read the article, maybe it was deleted or moved from the link or just not registering? Whichever it is, it should be noted that the Barbarian was a Kit, but later on in 2nd edition it actually became a Class somewhat similar to UA, but a little less powerful. Hence, Barbarian WAS a class found in the Complete Barbarian for 2nd Edition.

[metadigital]

This reminds me: what bloody use are bards in crpgs?

Not that I'm a fan of bards, but they do provide good support to the party: lots of buff effects in combat, for example.

[Blank]

This reminds me: what bloody use are bards in crpgs?

Comic relief?

Edited February 13, 2007 by Blank

[Walsingham]

But I mean why not iclude a wizard. Why buff up when you can throw in artillery?

[metadigital]

I have never had the urge to play a Bard, so I can't answer your question, except to say that (when I've had one in my CRPG party) they always seem to have a positive effect. Don't forget Arcane spellcasters are notoriously feeble at lower levels.

[Musopticon?]

Not to mention; bard songs don't have a limit, while an inexprerienced wizard has to rest every other corner.

 

Ultimately though, bards are more of roleplaying character, not a powerhouse or a support machine like the more core classes.

[Rhomal]

Well, can't read the article, maybe it was deleted or moved from the link or just not registering?

 

The article has been moved here under my blog section:

 

http://www.nwn2worlds.net/MyProfile/tabid/.../1/Default.aspx

[Maria Caliban]

Half-orc

Barbarian 1

 

STR: 20 (24 in rage - +7 mod)

DEX: 14

CON: 14 (18 in rage - 16 hp)

INT: 8

WIS: 8

CHA: 8

 

Feats:

1. Improved Initiative

 

Movement 40 feet

 

Attack: Greatsword +8 (+10 charge), 2d6+10, 19-20/x2

 

 

As for levels:

Barbarian 2/Fighter 2/ Swordsage 2/ Warblade 1/ Frenzied Berserker 5

Barbarian 6/Frenzied Berserker 10/Bloodstorm Blade 4

Edited April 2, 2007 by Maria Caliban

[samm]

STR: 20 (24 in rage - +7 mod)

DEX: 14

CON: 14 (18 in rage - 16 hp)

INT: 8

WIS: 8

CHA: 8

You were one of the people complaining about roleplaying-possibilites in games. So now, how does this build fit that? Ok, you put 2 points in cha and int, but still all I see is "ENGINE FIGHT, NO TALK" written on that characters forhead

[metadigital]

With 8 Charisma the character won't be winning any friends in a hurry.