"Meaningful evil"

[Tale]

Has there been a game in which you go through thinking you're doing good but are doing evil instead (that isn't simple i.e. Bioschlock)?

 

I'm pretty sure there's a couple. Let me look at my library quickly and see if anything pops up.

 

Well, I can't find anything that pops out of my head immediately, but it's not a new concept. Anytime you're playing a game there's always the chance you're being manipulated by the evil forces or whatnot into doing their bidding. But you almost ALWAYS have a chance to make up for it at the end.

[Mad_Scientist]

Has there been a game in which you go through thinking you're doing good but are doing evil instead (that isn't simple i.e. Bioschlock)?

 

There was an old SNES game I played (an action RPG) with something that might be good. Terranigma.

 

 

You play as Ark, a guy who's basically live in a town known as Crysta, in the underworld, and who accidentally unleashed a storm that froze everything. You were then tasked with the main goal of saving Crysta, by resurrecting the Overworld. By helping the Overworld grow and prosper, you would be able to save Crysta.

 

The twist is that the world has constantly been destroyed and resurrected, because of an ancient feud between "Gaia" and "Dark Gaia", who is the leader of Crysta. "Dark Gaia" was using Ark in his attempt to go and help the world grow and prosper, allowing to reach a stage in its life when it can get destroyed again, continuing the cycle. Ark however broke this cycle and then betrayed "Dark Gaia", killing him and saving the Overworld.

 

However, it must be noted one thing: Dark Gaia was right. If the Overworld does not get destroyed, if the cycle does not continue, then all of the Underworld, Crysta, and even Ark himself will be destroyed. (Essentially, Dark Gaia really was trying to save Crysta, as it was his domain.) Ark, however accepted this fate, believing that there are more important things than living and that it may be possible to one day be resurrected along with his family and friends. The game ends.

 

 

 

Eh, I wouldn't really call that playing as evil. I mean, both when you're helping out Dark Gaia and when you're fighting against him, you're doing something that will help some people but hurt others. It was kind of a lose-lose situation there.

 

[Tigranes]

That sounds pretty amazing though, Terranigma? Was the game itself fun? I want to play it, but I doubt I could find it I guess.

[SilentScope001]

That sounds pretty amazing though, Terranigma? Was the game itself fun? I want to play it, but I doubt I could find it I guess.

 

The game itself was quite fun, much more fun than Fable, and I really did enjoy playing it. I don't think they sell it anymore, but I'm sure you could attempt to find some SNES ROM downloads of Terranigma. Maybe check on ebay?

Edited September 14, 2007 by SilentScope001

[metadigital]

I like the way Pop thinks. However, I disagree that the long term villain is best layered and complex. I say this to modify why he's saying, not completely argue against it. I think the long term antagonist structure (I use the phrase "antagonist structure" to refer to a system that allows for multiple villains and complex relationships between them) is best layered and complex. Aside from characters like Irenicus where you peel away to uncover the whole plan, there's also the possibility of organizations, formal and informal, that you peel away to find out the whole plan of the organization as well as the head of it. It's a relatively common mechanic. The main difference with what Pop is saying is that it leaves room for a mustache twirler at the top of the antagonistic structure.

 

I want to think of a good example of this but the main thing going through my head is Xenogears. While Xenogears had a very complex antagonist structure with Grafh, Miang, Deus, Shevat, Cain, the Gazelle ministry and the lot. Deus is ultimately the prime villain, however without the relationships with all the others it could have been quite dull. I wish I could think of a more popularly known example of a complex structure of villains that worked.

 

However, I think as an example, Deus works incredibly well as "meaningful evil."

I think the example you are mentally in denial about is Red and Black Xenomorph colonies!11!!!one!!1eleven!!!een!!!uno!!

 

Gary Oldman's Dr Smith character in the 1998 Lost in Space film is a good example of meaningful evil ... he even gives a little speech about it.

 

Edit: the Paladin trilogy (well, he only wrote two) of modules for NwN featured the "I am a Paladin doing good -- oops I just did evil" mechanic.

Edited October 6, 2007 by metadigital

[Blarghagh]

Why not just find out that you, for some reason or another, ARE the big evil?

 

Planescape did it. That was nice.

 

KOTOR 1 did it. If you played the dark side.

But then you're just an evil guy who turns out to be more evil than you originally thought you were.

 

Has there been a game in which you go through thinking you're doing good but are doing evil instead (that isn't simple i.e. Bioschlock)?

 

Often, I would do good until the point I got to the temple, and then I would go darkside. It's so much more pleasing to destroy your companions if they shouldn't have been able to see it coming from miles away.

[Rosbjerg]

That often leads you with a grey alignment instead of Darks Side (of at least 25-50% dark sid) doesn't it?

[metadigital]

... And a psychotic diagnosis from any psychology worker ...

[Tale]

... And a psychotic diagnosis from any psychology worker ...

I don't see what backstabbing murder has to do with hallucinations.

[metadigital]

Different personalities fighting for dominion over the mind of the protagonist.

[Tale]

Useless info: Which would be a dissociative diagnosis.

Edited October 22, 2007 by Tale

[metadigital]

I was talking about the diagnosis for the personality that wanted to murder everyone, as apposed to a diagnosis for the entire mind mess. (They could all have their own psych eval, and then -- for fun and giggles -- they could all compete for dominion over the person!)

[Dark_Raven]

What about mindless evil?

[Darque]

What about mindless evil?

 

Go go Chaotic Evil.

[Dark_Raven]

Speak of the devil. I mention mindles evil and Darque shows up.

[Darque]

[metadigital]

What about mindless evil?

 

Go go Chaotic Evil.

Isn't that "Chaotic Stupid"? Or should that be "Chaotic I've-got-a-deathwish-and-have-to-attack-everything"?

[Dark_Raven]

Different personalities fighting for dominion over the mind of the protagonist.

I like that. I'm writing a Baldur's Gate 2 npc mod just like that. In her dialogs there is no I, it's we. The only time she speaks with an I statement is when her real personality surfaces.

[Dark_Raven]

What about mindless evil?

 

Go go Chaotic Evil.

Isn't that "Chaotic Stupid"? Or should that be "Chaotic I've-got-a-deathwish-and-have-to-attack-everything"?

The perfect berserker.

[Calax]

Why not an rpg where you play on two sides of a border, one side thinks god X is good and right and the otherside thinks god Y is good and right, and your ultimate quest leads you to peel away layer after layer after layer of mythos to find that both people are a pair of old coots playing chess in a courtyard right under your nose that you had to do a quest for at the beginning.

[Walsingham]

Is anyone else thinking of Glory in Buffy?