RE: Derelict Ship

 

I don't think the Mod guy - excuse me, I can't remember you're name - meant that the Derelict ship was a WY ship. He meant that what if a Nostromo -type ship crashed after having encountered some eggs. A replacement so to speak.

 

Re: Alien3

 

Alien 3 is a very underrated film. It's a very good film - apart from editing flaws but that's stupid Fox's fault.

 

Re: Time setting

 

I think this'll be after Res. I mean, they did go visit ADI for inspiration(?) and ADI never worked on Alien/s. Even if the A4 design did suck, it gives them a much wider universe to play with since they're in the future and wont be able to contradict cannon.

Why is a thong wearing girl the only thing I can remember from Alien 4?!

 

Anyhow: Daggerfall is an awesome game. It starts out with you being sent by ship to a foreign country, the ship goes under, you're washed ashore into some cave that collapses behind you. From there you're on your own. After you've fumbled your way out of the starting cave, a vast world opens up to you. A few days after reaching a city (or village or something) a messenger happens upon you and leaves you a letter. The letter tells you to be somewhere within a month.

 

Now here's the cool part. If you go to where the letter wants you to go, the main story starts. But if you don't, the main story goes away and never comes back! You can still run around, level your character, upgrade the equipment and explore dungeons, solve meaningless side quests and all those things that made Daggerfall so.. special. But the main quest is gone for good.

 

I wish they would make the Alien RPG in somewhat the same way. Start the player off in his own space ship (trading ship?), with a gigantic galaxy in front of him. Let the player find his own way around for a while (while offering the ability to descend to planets and obtain side quests and stuff to do) and then start the main story. For example, you're flying around trying to upgrade your ship, solve a puny quest and gain money, when suddenly your ships computers picks up a Distress Signal ©. If the player chooses to, you can fly towards the signal and the main story starts. If the player chooses not to, well, I guess the signal would be a dot on the map that you can choose to ignore for as long as you like.

 

By the way, why are there no games that lets you fly a ship in space (like in Elite) for trading and combat and exploring, and then lets you descend on planets and moons to explore and actually get out of your ship? Is it really that difficult to create an engine capable of rendering the physics and graphics of space travel while at the same time being able to render the physics of planetary gravitation and ordinary indoor and outdoor scenes?

 

And why do I have a feeling that this Alien game will be MUCH smaller in scope than I would wish it to be? I can almost picture the KotOR style being used again, where you never get the feeling of existing in a world, but instead are ushered from planet to planet within a very restricted universe. I hope they take the time to actually establish a feeling of a universe (or a world, if it's planet bound) instead of just a chain of corridors and cramped maps.

So what you're saying, Mkreku, is that you want it to be Aliens with Fallout-esque nonlinearity with the Mass Effect space travel system, amirite?

 

I think that would be awesome but you're right, they'll probably have it take place on a single world and then maybe a spaceship.

 

Might want to ask Josh if the Alien RPG going to be "epic" or a more intimate game.

Edited December 22, 200619 yr by Pop

So what you're saying, Mkreku, is that you want it to be Fallout 2 in the Mass Effect universe, amirite?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yes )

Why is a thong wearing girl the only thing I can remember from Alien 4?!

 

Anyhow: Daggerfall is an awesome game. It starts out with you being sent by ship to a foreign country, the ship goes under, you're washed ashore into some cave that collapses behind you. From there you're on your own. After you've fumbled your way out of the starting cave, a vast world opens up to you. A few days after reaching a city (or village or something) a messenger happens upon you and leaves you a letter. The letter tells you to be somewhere within a month.

 

Now here's the cool part. If you go to where the letter wants you to go, the main story starts. But if you don't, the main story goes away and never comes back! You can still run around, level your character, upgrade the equipment and explore dungeons, solve meaningless side quests and all those things that made Daggerfall so.. special. But the main quest is gone for good.

 

I wish they would make the Alien RPG in somewhat the same way. Start the player off in his own space ship (trading ship?), with a gigantic galaxy in front of him. Let the player find his own way around for a while (while offering the ability to descend to planets and obtain side quests and stuff to do) and then start the main story. For example, you're flying around trying to  upgrade your ship, solve a puny quest and gain money, when suddenly your ships computers picks up a Distress Signal

Daggerfall is confusing and everything looks the same, that is, like siezure inducing dos graphics.

Edited December 22, 200619 yr by Gorgon

By the way, why are there no games that lets you fly a ship in space (like in Elite) for trading and combat and exploring, and then lets you descend on planets and moons to explore and actually get out of your ship? Is it really that difficult to create an engine capable of rendering the physics and graphics of space travel while at the same time being able to render the physics of planetary gravitation and ordinary indoor and outdoor scenes?

 

There are several similiar games that based designs like this: Freelancer, Space Rangers 1 & 2(The closest to your description) and probably others I can't think of currently.

 

I feel that Aliens is more fitted to a survival horror than an open ended kind. Perhaps in place of an open ended game, why not have an area of limited scale with high level of interactivity and dynamic gameplay instead of a kind of repetition gameplays that are found in open ended games? System Shock 2 and Resident Evil 4 achieved this, perhaps we could combine them both?

I want to pee myself in Alien fear. If that happens, I will be happy.

I hope too Alien will rely more on the "feeling" and a highly interactive world rather than stupid and abstract RPG conventions. I hope the gameplay will lend towards "Action RPG", and with "Action" I don't mean shooting and clicking like a madman, but making choices through actions rather than clicking through horrendous prestige classes and +/- buttons. I guess that's the hard part: Allowing to player to improve the character but still keeping it intuitive.

Oh, and something that always sucked in Kotor or any D&D games: Please make the combat more personal, more brutal, more visceral. I want to feel a bond to the enemie and not just slaughter it like a little pig without feeling something about it. Thanks.

There are several similiar games that based designs like this: Freelancer, Space Rangers 1 & 2(The closest to your description) and probably others I can't think of currently.

I never got the chance to try Space Rangers (1 or 2) but I did try Freelancer and it is nothing like what I envisioned. You can never get out of your space ship in Freelancer and move around, you are only treated to a few cut scenes in space stations.

 

I feel that Aliens is more fitted to a survival horror than an open ended kind. Perhaps in place of an open ended game, why not have an area of limited scale with high level of interactivity and dynamic gameplay instead of a kind of repetition gameplays that are found in open ended games? System Shock 2 and Resident Evil 4 achieved this, perhaps we could combine them both?

It is possible to have an open ended game that is also full of interactivity. Those two features are not mutually exclusive, contrary to popular belief on these boards, just like great graphics does not have to automatically mean bad gameplay. System Shock 2 and Resident Evil 4 were both awesome games in their own right, but with a canon like the one from the Alien universe I figured it would be more interesting to grapple with mega corporations, evil soldier types, different planets and more exploration than what a single space ship could offer.

 

Daggerfall confusing? RTFM. I guess I shouldn't have mentioned that game among the Bioware hordes that actually enjoy being hand-held for the first two hours of every new game.

I hope you haven't forgotten with the argument you had Avellon with a Star Wars fan regarding of the change of design of the Mandolorean drop ship which I can't even remember the name.

It's unavoidable, young one. Sooner or later, the Disciples of the dreaded Darth Nuke will overrun these boards, unleashing a tide of inconsequential rants about obscure inconsistencies with an outdated canon that nobody cares about to begin with. And one broken dev cannot stop the darkness that is to come...

 

 

I feel that Aliens is more fitted to a survival horror than an open ended kind. Perhaps in place of an open ended game, why not have an area of limited scale with high level of interactivity and dynamic gameplay instead of a kind of repetition gameplays that are found in open ended games?

Agreed. For once, I don't see how open-endedness and non-linearity could mesh well with the necessary oppressive atmosphere and level of tension of an Alien game.

There's one game mkreru that involves visiting planets, space travels and even exploration on foot. That game is the legendary dreadful BattleCruiser series.

 

ut with a canon like the one from the Alien universe I figured it would be more interesting to grapple with mega corporations, evil soldier types, different planets and more exploration than what a single space ship could offer.

 

That can be easily done, Resident Evil series did it without even needing to travel across continents but in extremely confine environments in order to realise a bigger and more menacing enemy which is the Umbrella.

Edited December 22, 200619 yr by Zoma

"I think it's weird that you still believe I'm "slavishly" devoted to things considering the modifications I proposed (or implemented) for IWD2 and the huge amount of stuff that I was changing or outright ignoring for The Black Hound and F3. "

 

as pop would say, "apples and oranges." for iwd2 you got hammered for suggesting the use of monte cook's 3e ranger. monte cook is the guy who wrote the original 3e ranger, so why not the monte cook improved version for a crpg? makes sense. josh found reasons w/i context of rules. reasonable and rational w/i scope o' dogma and canon. not really refute josh's preoccupation with minutae of setting.

 

in any event, we weren't really expecting josh to listen or consider... but it were worth a shot.

 

HA! Good Fun!

Edited December 22, 200619 yr by Gromnir

"I think it's weird that you still believe I'm "slavishly" devoted to things considering the modifications I proposed (or implemented) for IWD2 and the huge amount of stuff that I was changing or outright ignoring for The Black Hound and F3. "

 

as pop would say, "apples and oranges."  for iwd2 you got hammered for suggesting the use of monte cook's 3e ranger.  monte cook is the guy who wrote the original 3e ranger, so why not the monte cook improved version for a crpg?  makes sense.  josh found reasons w/i context of rules.  reasonable and rational w/i scope o' dogma and canon.  not really refute josh's preoccupation with minutae of setting.

 

in any event, we weren't really expecting josh to listen or consider... but it were worth a shot.

 

HA! Good Fun!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Why do you think antagonizing people will lead to a better future?

as pop would say, "apples and oranges."  for iwd2 you got hammered for suggesting the use of monte cook's 3e ranger.  monte cook is the guy who wrote the original 3e ranger, so why not the monte cook improved version for a crpg?  makes sense.  josh found reasons w/i context of rules.  reasonable and rational w/i scope o' dogma and canon.  not really refute josh's preoccupation with minutae of setting.

You must have mind-melded one house down for that one. It actually didn't have anything to do with the fact that it was Monte Cook, but the fact that his version of the ranger (minus the bonus feat at first level) was far superior to the standard 3E version. It could have been Jim Bob Rooney McGee's Ranger and if it had that build structure, I still would have liked it. Good mechanics are good regardless of source.

 

in any event, we weren't really expecting josh to listen or consider... but it were worth a shot.

 

HA! Good Fun!

I wrote that details should not be burdensome to the casual or uninformed audience (when it exists). The examples I gave from Name of the Rose all fit the bill. Here's another good example from Alien: in the first film, the Nostromo crew wear patches on their shoulders that read USCSS NOSTROMO with a space scene on it. Officers wear blue patches, regular folks wear black patches. If we followed suit with our game, it would in no way harm the casual player and it would give the superfan the attention to detail that he or she desires.

 

Alternately, I guess we could willfully ignore that detail. But like the monks' robes in The Name of the Rose, I can't think of a good reason why those things shouldn't be noted and followed when the cost is low.

Well you mentioned that some of the cannon was good and some of it sucky.

 

As long as you can recognise and steer away from the cheese, detail is often the difference between immersion and indiference. Whatever 'easter eggs' were included in Alien and Aliens is a plus.

Well, we won't be including aliens wearing Colonial Marine armor and using smartguns. We also won't have a plot that involves a crazy musician trying to record the sound of an alien feasting for his magnum opus.

 

I hope that establishes some boundaries for you guys.

Im behind on the news as always. This is the best I could have hoped for aside of your own IP, I hope you'll be able to use an engine not based on aurora/electron too.

I hope the original score by James Horner can somehow be incorperated, perhaps re-mixed/re-recorded. Nothing says deep space like the first two bars of Atmosphere Station

Edited December 22, 200619 yr by Gorgon

Im behind on the news as always. This is the best I could have hoped for aside of your own IP, I hope you'll be able to use an engine not based on aurora/electron too.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

QFT

 

Although I love NWN2 it's engine has some poor coding

Edited December 22, 200619 yr by Xard

Josh has a point with all this small things don't matter to the casual gamer, only the hardcore audience really cares about minor details, the reality of the market is that at the end of the day; there are more casual gamers than hardcore, that's just a fact.

 

Josh and co... (That would be the design team at obsidian) have this awful job of needing to bridge the gap between, something that is fun and apeasing that hardcore gamer enough that folks like grommy don't complain like small children because feature X isn't in game Y, and he(grommy) logically cannot see why...

 

(Don't act like you don't go on about these things Grom, I've read enough of your posts, and while occasionally they shed some little gems they do at the end of the day still carry an air of ignorance.)

 

It's never simply a matter of lets make a game I WANT TO PLAY, or THESE PEOPLE want to play. It's always what's most likely to sell and most likely to be fun, they're kinda on par with each other as fun games tend to do well. This is not to mention the pressure of working on a world stage and knowing, actually KNOWING respected development companies will be watching, heck only a few weeks ago I was speaking to a guy from core design about obsidian...

Im behind on the news as always. This is the best I could have hoped for aside of your own IP, I hope you'll be able to use an engine not based on aurora/electron too.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Dude, I hope they work the engine from the ground up because frankly, I'd have been embarrassed to be sat on an engine that does on top end machines 30fps and release a game thinking that was ok. (Obviously it's a tough job, but still...)

I now find myself intrigued by the age old (not really) question of sci-fi RPGs. Melee vs. Ranged. Should prove interesting to see how the traditionally (though not exclusively) ranged Space Marines handle the almost exclusively melee Aliens using RPG rules.

 

Traditionally, for video games at least, the Space Marines would be screwed or end up doing more melee than ranged. KOTOR definitely had a melee bias. SWG... was so convoluted it shouldn't be discussed.

 

How does D20 modern handle the issue? Or Anarchy Online?

 

I know another exciting thing about this is it's been too long since we've had a sci-fi RPG that wasn't Star Wars.

Man, I wouldn't mind if the combat sections of this game resembles Space Hulk. You may have some badass marines with state of the art weaponry but if any of those killing machines get into melee range you are meat paste.

I now find myself intrigued by the age old (not really) question of sci-fi RPGs.  Melee vs. Ranged.  Should prove interesting to see how the traditionally (though not exclusively) ranged Space Marines handle the almost exclusively melee Aliens using RPG rules.

 

Traditionally, for video games at least, the Space Marines would be screwed or end up doing more melee than ranged.  KOTOR definitely had a melee bias.  SWG... was so convoluted it shouldn't be discussed.

 

How does D20 modern handle the issue?  Or Anarchy Online?

 

I know another exciting thing about this is it's been too long since we've had a sci-fi RPG that wasn't Star Wars.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I'm really interested in hearing what the solution for this problem will be, Anarchy Online doesn't really answer the problem.

 

Alien swarm(UT mod) handled it well... but that's not so much an RPG, the only way I can imagine it working would be in that sort of manner, my eyes look at the likes of alien breed, a kinda hit them before they get to you mechanic.