NWN2 bashed and thrashed

[Cyric]

Wow, all these opinions being stated as fact...whoopie.

 

The only truth I've seen is that whiners tend to hit the boards more frequently than satisfied customers.  It makes sense, as those who are happy are busy playing the game.  I think I'll go do that

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True story <Joey Crackadawn voice>

[17243_1556103691]

Soulthief also forgets that NWN1 9and 2) MP isn't just about PWs or PvP. There's also small groups with a DM type campaigns. You know, the one unique selling point that NWN series has over 99.9% of other games. In that situation, it is to me 'ok' to pause the game.

 

In a PW situation, no, I don't ti should really be ok. But, it is very possible, if the the server host allows it.

 

Soul: Good for you. I'm not speaking anyways. IU'm typing. And, you simply aren't reading what I posted, anyways. *shrug*

 

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This whole thing stems from the fact that the UI is more difficult and scattered than it was in NWN1. I've learned to use it so well that i could do it my sleep, but to buff, cast, and change combat modes simply takes longer than it did in NWN1 by default. I know because I've timed a few sequences. And I'm no slouch at pvp, I win on some of the fastest PVP servers out there (BoW and DeX). The UI is simply counter intuitive now. The need to pause shouldn't be there for multiplayer, it's not like im asking to step on your single player world or your little dm campaigns or whatever, I'm talking about the big servers, the ones that do have dueling and pvp and faction/guild wars, we shouldn't have to feel the need to pause, I'm sorry but I just think the UI needs a lot of work.

Edited November 13, 2006 by Guest

[Deraldin]

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[Zoma]

It only takes longer to Buff/Cast/Switch Combat Modes, if you managed to set up a hell of a lot of quickslots in NWN1 and knew which one was what without looking at it. I'm sorry, but casting spells (without the quickslots at least) is a lot faster in NWN2 than it is in NWN1 because you don't have to go through that damn radial menu.

 

I agree with Deraldin on his comments.

 

Furthermore, I thought the right click as a method of targetting is quite useful (for me at the very least) since in my PW server, I'm quite notorious for friendly fire clicking in large battles. :">

 

Now all I need is to right click on the enemy and simply spam him with my quickslot abilities or spells.

 

I just hope that there's a simpler and convenient way to quickslot feats and spells though compared to the current system where you have to go to your character's feat list and apply it. NWN does this quite well simply by right clicking on the quickslot box.

[Riftworm]

Well I agree with Soulthief on this one. UI is way more cluttered and slow btw isn't there an entire thread dedicated to UI improvement here :

NWN2 Interface Feedback and Requests

Edited November 13, 2006 by metadigital

[Nero]

The first NWN was big because of what other people could make to turn it into a good game, NWN with out online play well blew, so Bioware made a game that allowed to them let it suck and leave it up to its fanboys to make good. NWN2 who cares, i thought both well kinda sucked. Give me time and allow me to create a world and galexy around KoToR, and I bet it would be just as big as NWN was. I played NWN for awhile and all it always seem the same and boring.

 

I got this from the guys rant

 

"The icons are about as informative as C3PO's beeps"

 

Not our fault the guy can't understand Droid.

[Deraldin]

Well I agree with Soulthief on this one. UI is way more cluttered and slow btw isn't there an entire thread dedicated to UI improvement here : 

<a href="http://forums.obsidianent.com/index.php?showtopic=44644">NWN2 Interface Feedback and Requests</a>

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You need to use BBCode on these boards. Try [ URL=http://forums.obsidianent.com/index.php?showtopic=44644]NWN2 Interface Feedback and Requests[/url ] without the spaces.

[Volourn]

"The first NWN was big because of what other people could make to turn it into a good game,"

 

Nope. NWN was big because it was a D&D game made by BIO, and theyd elivered a greta game that many people enjoyed hence why it sold. Most people bought NWN for it's OC. This is a fact. It's toolset/MP/DMC surely didn't hurt it though.

[Riftworm]

"The first NWN was big because of what other people could make to turn it into a good game,"

 

Nope. NWN was big because it was a D&D game made by BIO, and theyd elivered a greta game that many people enjoyed hence why it sold. Most people bought NWN for it's OC. This is a fact. It's toolset/MP/DMC surely didn't hurt it though.

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It's a D&D game..why would most people buy it for the OC? You have no evidence of this and frankly it makes little sense, especially since you just admitted it was in fact a great D&D game. People buy D&D games for the "party" format. Multiplayer is a hand glove fit for this type of concept.

[Deraldin]

"The first NWN was big because of what other people could make to turn it into a good game,"

 

Nope. NWN was big because it was a D&D game made by BIO, and theyd elivered a greta game that many people enjoyed hence why it sold. Most people bought NWN for it's OC. This is a fact. It's toolset/MP/DMC surely didn't hurt it though.

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It's a D&D game..why would most people buy it for the OC? You have no evidence of this and frankly it makes little sense, especially since you just admitted it was in fact a great D&D game. People buy D&D games for the "party" format. Multiplayer is a hand glove fit for this type of concept.

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I'm sure that it was mentioned awhile back (read: quite possibly over a year) that much of the population that bought NWN1 had never been online with the game.

[Volourn]

Aye, and repeatedly.

[Riftworm]

Aye, and repeatedly.

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Ya..says you pal..

 

The millions i've seen online over the past 5 years says different.

[Volourn]

I'll believe BIO over you throwing random numbers at me.

Edited November 13, 2006 by Volourn

[alanschu]

It's a D&D game..why would most people buy it for the OC? You have no evidence of this and frankly it makes little sense, especially since you just admitted it was in fact a great D&D game. People buy D&D games for the "party" format. Multiplayer is a hand glove fit for this type of concept.

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Hardly seems fitting that you accuse him of not having evidence, when you're speculating yourself.

 

Why would most people buy it for the OC? Because it was a Bioware D&D game, and they had a reputation for making good D&D games.

 

In fact, the majority of people that bought Neverwinter Nights only dabbled briefly in the Multiplayer world. It wasn't uncommon for people to do nothing but play the OC.

 

There was a reason why HotU was designed explicitly only for single player. The multiplayer for it was simply "play at your own risk." It may work, it may not. They didn't design it for MP usage, and didn't support the MP of the HotU campaign. The reason why they did this is because the majority of their consumer base did not play these campaigns in multiplayer. They were played primarily in single player, and came to the conclusion that the majority of the fanbase would be more satisfied if they focused on the single player aspect of the HotU campaign.

 

THESE VIEWS ARE SUPPORTED BY THE MARKET RESEARCH DONE BY BIOWARE THEMSELVES.

 

The millions you saw playing online were likely different iterations of the same people!

 

 

As for SoulThief's claim that it takes longer to cast something, then that is clearly because he just isn't willing to learn the exceptionally simple UI that is the quickcast menu. I mean, you hit 'F' select your spell, and pick a target. I'm not sure how it can be more simple. Unless you prefer right clicking to bring up the radial menu, selecting spells, then the spell level, then the spell. Most of his gripes about the UI (of which there are indeed issues) seems to simply be that it's not the exact same as NWN user interface.

Edited November 13, 2006 by alanschu

[17243_1556103691]

I'll believe BIO over you throwing random numbers at me.

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That's nice, I don't because I havent seen your supposed "BIO" stats. Where are these magical stats? They floated away and dissapeared?

Edited November 13, 2006 by Guest

[alanschu]

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Edited November 13, 2006 by alanschu

[Riftworm]

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Edited November 13, 2006 by Riftworm

[alanschu]

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Edited November 13, 2006 by alanschu

[17243_1556103691]

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Edited November 13, 2006 by Guest

[Deraldin]

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[17243_1556103691]

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[alanschu]

Well at least you found something. This still doesn't mean that more people are buying NWN2 for single player only. For 1, polls can only account for a certian % of the community. For 2. Given the online community grew so much over 5 years, certainly the numbers changed profoundly since that thread. For 3. Everyone knows that any single player campaign loses steam over any great length of time before the player grows bored enough to try it onlne. For 4. More players are sure to have broadband access then they did in 2002-2004.

 

So basically, you're numbers are purely built up on suppositions and assumptions on how you THINK the world is.

 

And while polls only question a sample of the community, there's no way you can say whether or not that sample is an accurate reflection of their customer base. Given that this type of research isn't just randomly polling people on their website or something, but actual market research, lends a bit more to its credibility. This is the type of research done to assess the marketplace, where big errors can result in the loss of millions of dollars. It's in Bioware's best interests to make sure that the information reflected in their research is accurate, in order to fully maximize it. It's not just some random poll.

 

 

The kicker to me is 3. in that usually at some point a single player campaign player will eventually want to give online play a try.

 

How would you know that people 'usually' do? While polls/research may not be accurate, your personal experiences and 'commonsense' notions of how things should be are infinitely less accurate.

[Deraldin]

[quote name='

Edited November 13, 2006 by Deraldin

[17243_1556103691]

Well at least you found something. This still doesn't mean that more people are buying NWN2 for single player only. For 1, polls can only account for a certian % of the community. For 2. Given the online community grew so much over 5 years, certainly the numbers changed profoundly since that thread. For 3. Everyone knows that any single player campaign loses steam over any great length of time before the player grows bored enough to try it onlne. For 4. More players are sure to have broadband access then they did in 2002-2004.

 

So basically, you're numbers are purely built up on suppositions and assumptions on how you THINK the world is.

 

And while polls only question a sample of the community, there's no way you can say whether or not that sample is an accurate reflection of their customer base. Given that this type of research isn't just randomly polling people on their website or something, but actual market research, lends a bit more to its credibility. This is the type of research done to assess the marketplace, where big errors can result in the loss of millions of dollars. It's in Bioware's best interests to make sure that the information reflected in their research is accurate, in order to fully maximize it. It's not just some random poll.

 

 

The kicker to me is 3. in that usually at some point a single player campaign player will eventually want to give online play a try.

 

How would you know that people 'usually' do? While polls/research may not be accurate, your personal experiences and 'commonsense' notions of how things should be are infinitely less accurate.

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You seem to want NWN2 to be all for you, while i'm speaking from the experience that i've encountered at least a few thousand new faces over a 4 year span of people that simply grew tired of not playing with other people and explicitly stated that.. It's the human condition. It's just how people are. I don't discredit market research entirely but I know what i saw in the online community in its growth over time and that tells a different story. Hell even the guy at Fry's electronics said he had finally gotten broadband and couldn;t wait to play NWN2 online after playing NWN1 offline for so many years (which points to 4. being a factor to at least some degree).

[alanschu]

You seem to want NWN2 to be all for you

 

I made no such statement. In fact, I don't even know what you are talking about here.

 

 

while i'm speaking from the experience that i've encountered at least a few thousand new faces over a 4 year span of people that simply grew tired of not playing with other people and explicitly stated that

 

Wow. A few thousand. Out of the millions of copies of the game sold.

 

 

It's the human condition. It's just how people are.

 

It is? Based on what?

 

 

I don't discredit market research entirely but I know what i saw in the online community in its growth over time and that tells a different story.

 

No it doesn't. All your story said was a few thousand (assuming you're even remotely correct in your estimate of a few thousand). Neverwinter Nights is a game that has sold million. It's one of the better selling games of all time.

 

 

Hell even the guy at Fry's electronics said he had finally gotten broadband and couldn;t wait to play NWN2 online after playing NWN1 offline for so many years (which points to 4. being a factor to at least some degree).

 

Well, there's ONE person. Anecdotal evidence doesn't mean anything. And unfortunately, it leads people to 'commonsense' conclusions. (for the record, using common sense in any sort of empirical analysis trying to describe something will literally get you laughed at in any academic circle. It's pretty much useless, because it is frequently wrong).